Impressive parents with below average kids

[Anonymous]

My husband and I are both extremely anxious overachievers from fairly dysfunctional homes. Our kids have so much anxiety (likely inherited) that it makes it difficult for them to handle life’s stressors. They have struggled socially, academically etc.

I wonder if they would have done better if both my husband and I had sought help for our anxiety earlier. It’s hard to conceptualize of a whole family though where everyone is on antidepressants, Zoloft etc. Sometimes we think of ourselves as kind of a generic cocktail that probably shouldn’t have been mixed.

[Anonymous]

Genetic. Not generic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The initial post talks about intelligence a lot, but then the follow up talks about behavior.

Those 2 things have little to do with one another.

+1, and also this whole thread is really about one interaction with one family, from which OP is making all kinds of leaps. Just say "I am disappointed my nice friends have bratty kids."

I have known the family for a decade. It is not one interaction. Our kids go to the same school.

I was appalled at their poor behavior. However, they are also low performers at school. They quit all their sports. They hate their instruments.

Assuming this is elementary…How do you know who is a “low performer” at school? And based upon what criteria exactly? A lot of kids don’t enjoy organized sports or just try out different rec sports at this age (and perhaps don’t return the next season). A lot of kids think practicing instrument is a drag and only do it because their parents make them (raising my own hand on this one…ended up playing in the HS band and enjoying it very much).

The parents probably chose their child’s instrument which was something undesirable like viola or harp. And I bet the parents never play outside games with them like a game they create themselves with a basketball and hoop, or ride bikes together. They probably never go to a park with a soccer ball and climb on playground equipment. Instead they sign them up for an organized sport at a too young age when they’d rather be playing unorganized sports with their family.

If they are trying to mold them into something they’re not they will act out and resent their parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I are both extremely anxious overachievers from fairly dysfunctional homes. Our kids have so much anxiety (likely inherited) that it makes it difficult for them to handle life’s stressors. They have struggled socially, academically etc.

I wonder if they would have done better if both my husband and I had sought help for our anxiety earlier. It’s hard to conceptualize of a whole family though where everyone is on antidepressants, Zoloft etc. Sometimes we think of ourselves as kind of a generic cocktail that probably shouldn’t have been mixed.

What makes you an overachiever instead just an achiever? Do you need constantly work for budget reasons?

Have you discussed with their teachers your children’s anxiety and how it’s affected them in school and socially? They have IEPs for kids with issues like anxiety interfering with academics. You should find out.

I know how bad anxiety feels and the earlier you get coping skills the better. My husband and I haven’t given our kids the best genetics either. If you all were helped by Zoloft that would be amazingly great. They probably have school counselors that can assist your kids too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually the parents spend more time on their careers than with the children.

+1

Successful parenting is a job in itself, if both parents have demanding careers it’s very hard to parent well.

Agree. Parents need to spend a lot of time with kids for them to teach their full potential academically, mental health wise and Socially. Intelligence is largely inherited but there could be LDs. The engaged parents is around enough to know their child well and spot early signs of mental health issues or other potential things that can spiral downward.

Engaged parent is NOT the same as permissive parenting- way too much of the latter these days and way too many ways too waste time and screw up, especially if family has money and kids don’t have to make sacrifices and do lots of chores.

Parenting is a full time job and almost impossible to do well if you’re not physically present a good amount of time. It would be impossible to be at the top of one’s field and also be an engaged parent. But I’m glad we have people who pursue excellence in their career. I chose to limit my professional career in order to parent. Still work though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

Oh come on. Hard to believe this is not a huge exaggeration. How old are their kids?

Fighting, screaming, whining, hitting, complaining, being disrespectful 75% of the time. The parents just tune out. It is like they just accepted this poor behavior and don’t know what to do with the children.

I’m surprised how such competent people can be such horrible parents.

The kids have problems. I would not make a good parent to such a kid. I'd lose my calm. Kids do not fight, scream, whine, hit, complain if parents are not involved. My parents were not even around and I'm hands off with my own kid. You will never see him do any of those things. He may let lose a little at home, bu never outside.
He is always at play dates as other parents ask for him, pick him up from my house and drop him off hours later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regression to the mean is possible.

Also, some of my kids appeared to be a real mess at age 8 or even 14 but were absolutely killing it academically and socially by age 18.

Because they were put on some kind of medicine they needed long ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The richer the family, the more likely the kids are on screens too much and on social media which sucks the life, intelligence, creativity right out of you. The rich families at our school have dedicated ipads for each kid and at age 10 they get a smartphone. I think it's kind of disgusting.

This isn't true. Statistically lower parental income and education levels correlate with more screen time usage by kids.

https://www.the74million.org/children-from-low-income-less-educated-families-spend-nearly-twice-as-much-time-on-screens/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9107378/

And higher incomes correlate with higher intelligence and better outcomes. People don't want to know how much of life is tied up in the DNA you give your kids. As for successful people with unsuccessful kids, I wonder if some people just don't match well. For instance, I've long thought having a "spark" was nature's way of telling you that the other person is a good match. Well, the opposite could also be true.

Two successful people do one thing well and ASD helps them to hyper concentrate. Kid gets the ASD, but since parents think they did well in life themselves, they don't even recognize that kid may need help. Kid's ASD is different.

[Anonymous]

I about to send my second kid to college and have thought a lot lately about how my kids and other kids I know have fared, at least in the college admissions game. And I have come to the conclusion that there is no special sauce and parents can do a ton of enrichment and kid still ends up at mediocre school and vice versa. Sure, many smart and accomplished parents do have similar kids, but not always and vice versa. Nature is much stronger than nurture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

It’s already been stated on the thread OP, but it’s certainly worth reiterating: these “career people” that you see are just that. Their career has always come first and they outsourced all the parental duties. I don’t envy this dynamic in any way as money can come and go, but you only have a few short years to focus on raising your family when kids are young.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually the parents spend more time on their careers than with the children.

+1

Successful parenting is a job in itself, if both parents have demanding careers it’s very hard to parent well.

I agree. Parents only have so much time in a day and some children are more challenging personality-wise, motivation-wise, or are neurotypical in a non-obvious way (ADD, OCD, autism) and managing that child or those children and subsequent more challenging sibling dynamics will take a lot of parental resources and may lead to more permissiveness. We know a very high powered, wealthy (both family $ and earned $), accomplished (Ivy and T-20 degrees, MD at hedge fund and partner at a top law firm; family $ may have influenced one trajectory a bit but a lot of hard work, talent, and ambition was required in both cases) couple who will have their fourth child in seven years soon. They have multiple live in nannies and neither of them ever manages more than two children at once. Their children will have a ton of resources and will have received a ton of caregiving, but a lot that will not be from the actual parents.

The oldest child now in 1st wouldn’t talk in many social situations in preschool (seemed like selective mutism) and I witnessed that child last year hurt multiple children on the playground (stepped on at least three kids’ hands and pushed a child off a play structure) during a 30-minute period when I was volunteering.

Who knows what the outcomes will be? I think the stereotype of the uber successful but distant parent is changing a bit though. I think there are a lot of parents who strive for both, but is providing a resource rich environment for a child and not being physically present a ton the same as being physically present? Is it better? Is it worse? Is it parent and caregiver dependent?

Nannies can’t take the place of good parenting. Nannies are doing the basics for a paycheck and that is it. They are not invested in the long term outcome of your kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

Stupid people can't understand smart people.

OP saw one person and built a whole stereotype around it. No ability to explain her "idea" in any but the vaguest terms. Main reaction to seeing someone successful is to think of an insult.
Classic stupid person behavior.

[Anonymous]

I see this outcome pretty frequently. It's permissive parents who can't seem to utter the word "no" and aimless kids with bottom-rung hygiene, accomplishments, health, social life. What a waste.

One of my longest friendships is with a woman who pioneered self-care before it was named. She outsourced all parenting to nannies, doesn't cook for herself or her family - it's all doordash. Does a lot of solo travel, spends weekend mornings doing yoga followed by a latte, instead of connecting with her kids that she hasn't seen all week. Her kids are a hot mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

Stupid people can't understand smart people.

OP saw one person and built a whole stereotype around it. No ability to explain her "idea" in any but the vaguest terms. Main reaction to seeing someone successful is to think of an insult.
Classic stupid person behavior.

Not OP- but I’ve noticed this too. I work in a field with children, many of whom have parents with Ivy League degrees, big careers, and multi million dollar houses. A lot of the kids somehow get accepted into “the best” private schools (likely parental influence on admissions). And they are still, very, very average. Even with nannies, it’s apparent there is a lot of benign neglectful parenting going on.

[Anonymous]

In a board full of people regularly discussing their nannies, housekeepers, household managers, drivers, etc., none of this should be surprising. These people aren’t raising their kids. Fortunately, society will guarantee these kids will always fail upwards even if Larlo spends his high school years doing blow.