Maybe it would be a good thing if Trump limited international students at t100 schools?

[Anonymous]

I don't think anything is good about a dictator controlling who gets to go to what colleges.

[Anonymous]

Collèges are closing all over the country. There is room for every American who is capable of college work, plus many who are not.

Harvard has always been a bastion of elitism. Once it was class. Briefly it was academic prowess. Now it’s some other combined formula of achievement, money and ambition.

It has never been a pure meritocracy. Those claiming they are owed a spot there might look at the broader picture of haves and have nots in this country. You want yours, but seem to have little concern with what others will never have.

The sense that the greatest power and prestige are just within grasp, keeps people focused on the dream of that little brass ring. Whoosh there goes our democracy. There goes medical research.

Foreign students occupying some seats there hardly matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big MAGA talking point is that foreigners are taking US jobs. It's true - you try getting a job in the Silicon Valley. That is where I'm from, my family lived there until recently but it is literally impossible to compete with H1B visa holders - and now their kids and friends. Even in areas that you don't need tech skills - like marketing - you can't compete. And then competing with foreign students to get into college - there are less spaces for Americans, so there is less opportunity for them and it's a downward spiral.

The universities don't need billions saved in endowments. They can afford to not take foreign money from students.

Sorry to hear that, but that's how to keep American companies competitive globally, suck talents from other countries, and keep labor cost low in this country.
Same for foreign students, some of them will stay, some will go back to their countries becoming head of states, bureaucrats in their government, that gives great advantage to U.S to advocate its policies and interests, other countries like China, Russia, or EU would dream to have talented students come to their universities.

Then we need reform for workers here. Not to compete with each other. Companies should have limits on profits, limits on what they promise shareholders, limits on what they pay CEOs and most importantly, investment back into workers by competitive wages for all (no undercutting). This is (gasp!) a bend towards unions and regulation on unfettered capitalism. Yes. I know that scares people. But why are people more scared of this kind of governmental "overreach" - Oversight - and not the overreaching of a smalldick dictator telling colleges what to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

+1. My high stats full pay kid will be attending a T70 while kids from other countries with lower stats are being paid to attend top US colleges. There are plenty of full pay families in the US with academically qualified kids. Of course, there are a number of reasons top colleges choose to pay for international students to attend - clearly that has value to the college - but academic qualifications are not the reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big MAGA talking point is that foreigners are taking US jobs. It's true - you try getting a job in the Silicon Valley. That is where I'm from, my family lived there until recently but it is literally impossible to compete with H1B visa holders - and now their kids and friends. Even in areas that you don't need tech skills - like marketing - you can't compete. And then competing with foreign students to get into college - there are less spaces for Americans, so there is less opportunity for them and it's a downward spiral.

The universities don't need billions saved in endowments. They can afford to not take foreign money from students.

Sorry to hear that, but that's how to keep American companies competitive globally, suck talents from other countries, and keep labor cost low in this country.
Same for foreign students, some of them will stay, some will go back to their countries becoming head of states, bureaucrats in their government, that gives great advantage to U.S to advocate its policies and interests, other countries like China, Russia, or EU would dream to have talented students come to their universities.

Then we need reform for workers here. Not to compete with each other. Companies should have limits on profits, limits on what they promise shareholders, limits on what they pay CEOs and most importantly, investment back into workers by competitive wages for all (no undercutting). This is (gasp!) a bend towards unions and regulation on unfettered capitalism. Yes. I know that scares people. But why are people more scared of this kind of governmental "overreach" - Oversight - and not the overreaching of a smalldick dictator telling colleges what to do?

Limits on profits? Like higher corporate taxes on excess profit? It will never ever happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Sure, but it's a zero sum game. So now full pay folks who would have gone to BU or Emory or Tufts or whatever will go to Harvard. Less kids in the system means less kids going SOMEWHERE. Could trickle down to hurt the mid-level schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

Median household income is 80k, top 20 percent is 150k, there is no way those families can pay for 80-90k/year with after tax money, only a handful elite colleges will pay for talented kids from those families if they don't get Pell Grant.
BTW, there are about 26k high schools, talented kids only go to a small percentage of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

Median household income is 80k, top 20 percent is 150k, there is no way those families can pay for 80-90k/year with after tax money, only a handful elite colleges will pay for talented kids from those families if they don't get Pell Grant.
BTW, there are about 26k high schools, talented kids only go to a small percentage of them.

DP. Take the top 10-20% from whatever number of high schools you think has talented kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

+1. My high stats full pay kid will be attending a T70 while kids from other countries with lower stats are being paid to attend top US colleges. There are plenty of full pay families in the US with academically qualified kids. Of course, there are a number of reasons top colleges choose to pay for international students to attend - clearly that has value to the college - but academic qualifications are not the reason.

I'm sorry but if you think Trump excluding foreign students from Harvard is somehow going to fundamentally affect your kids trajectory through life, you have a screw loose. Focus on your child's strengths and weaknesses and path through life and stops stressing over what some elite private university does with their graduate schools. You're not helping your kid.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely not. MAGA supporters love calling out victim mentality on the left when they are so fragile themselves tying their lack of progress to "it's foreigners' fault"

Would you limit the amount of business US firms provide to global markets?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A big MAGA talking point is that foreigners are taking US jobs. It's true - you try getting a job in the Silicon Valley. That is where I'm from, my family lived there until recently but it is literally impossible to compete with H1B visa holders - and now their kids and friends. Even in areas that you don't need tech skills - like marketing - you can't compete. And then competing with foreign students to get into college - there are less spaces for Americans, so there is less opportunity for them and it's a downward spiral.

The universities don't need billions saved in endowments. They can afford to not take foreign money from students.

You know that Trump and Musk both employ H1b visa holders and promote the program, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think anything is good about a dictator controlling who gets to go to what colleges.

This.

Pretty funny to hear republicans supporting what they would call communism if anyone else did it.

[Anonymous]

It's interesting that instead of striving to be the best, MAGA has now taken the road of "take away my competition."

You don't think years of taking less-than-the-best will eventually affect the quality and reputation of T20 schools in the US? We'll be weakening some of our most respected institutions, and giving way to universities in other countries to take the lead.

[Anonymous]

Nope. I like the diversity. My son has friends from Germany, Albania, Italy, Israel etc at school. They add a lot to courses, particularly in his field in international policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not when Trump expects to appoint his own idiots to select the curriculum, hire faculty, and admit students. We live in a democracy and these are independent institutions. It’s disgusting.

What is unfortunate is that there is a national discussion to be had about affordable and equitable access to college. It shouldn’t be considered a luxury to attend but an imperative to attend. Taxpayers should be paying more to ensure the next generation is educated and able to contribute to the economy.

International students do bring value but you can’t claim their presence is to provide a global environment when the overwhelming majority come from 2-3 countries. There is no reason to bring so many in if there are equally or better qualified domestic candidates willing to full pay. If there are not enough domestic candidates to sustain a graduate program then there could be an exception.

Good points.