MCSL gender policy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be very cautious about basing any children's sports on genetic information. Honestly, how do people think that works? Are we going to require all kids to get genetically tested to participate in 6 weeks of summer swim? Or just the ones that are particularly tall, or maybe the ones with short hair?

My first choice is to recognize that summer swim is a rec sport, the point is for kids to form community, and be healthy, and have fun and that allowing kids to choose where to swim aligns with that.

But even for more competitive sports, HS varsity, or high level club sports, I can understand the argument for going by the sex assigned at birth. I can't understand placing the burden of genetic testing on every family, and I absolutely don't think that picking and choosing who will be tested is fair or makes sense.

Adult sports, NCAA, professional, Olympics etc . . . are a completely different situation.

There's this thing. It's called a birth certificate. This would be accurate for 99.9% of people. No genetic testing necessary.

Then why are people saying that they should go by whether someone has XX or XY and not saying go by the birth certificate?

There is this thing called mensturation. XY just don't do it. There no genetic testing necessary to figure that one out.

Do you not realize that many elite female (at birth, XX) athletes do not get there periods due to intense training?

There is a local club that intentionally trains their middle school girls as hard as possible to try and improve before and delay menstruation. When we heard that sales pitch from the coach we took our two daughters straight to another club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be very cautious about basing any children's sports on genetic information. Honestly, how do people think that works? Are we going to require all kids to get genetically tested to participate in 6 weeks of summer swim? Or just the ones that are particularly tall, or maybe the ones with short hair?

My first choice is to recognize that summer swim is a rec sport, the point is for kids to form community, and be healthy, and have fun and that allowing kids to choose where to swim aligns with that.

But even for more competitive sports, HS varsity, or high level club sports, I can understand the argument for going by the sex assigned at birth. I can't understand placing the burden of genetic testing on every family, and I absolutely don't think that picking and choosing who will be tested is fair or makes sense.

Adult sports, NCAA, professional, Olympics etc . . . are a completely different situation.

There's this thing. It's called a birth certificate. This would be accurate for 99.9% of people. No genetic testing necessary.

Then why are people saying that they should go by whether someone has XX or XY and not saying go by the birth certificate?

There is this thing called mensturation. XY just don't do it. There no genetic testing necessary to figure that one out.

Do you not realize that many elite female (at birth, XX) athletes do not get there periods due to intense training?

There is a local club that intentionally trains their middle school girls as hard as possible to try and improve before and delay menstruation. When we heard that sales pitch from the coach we took our two daughters straight to another club.

Wait, for real??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be very cautious about basing any children's sports on genetic information. Honestly, how do people think that works? Are we going to require all kids to get genetically tested to participate in 6 weeks of summer swim? Or just the ones that are particularly tall, or maybe the ones with short hair?

My first choice is to recognize that summer swim is a rec sport, the point is for kids to form community, and be healthy, and have fun and that allowing kids to choose where to swim aligns with that.

But even for more competitive sports, HS varsity, or high level club sports, I can understand the argument for going by the sex assigned at birth. I can't understand placing the burden of genetic testing on every family, and I absolutely don't think that picking and choosing who will be tested is fair or makes sense.

Adult sports, NCAA, professional, Olympics etc . . . are a completely different situation.

There's this thing. It's called a birth certificate. This would be accurate for 99.9% of people. No genetic testing necessary.

Then why are people saying that they should go by whether someone has XX or XY and not saying go by the birth certificate?

There is this thing called mensturation. XY just don't do it. There no genetic testing necessary to figure that one out.

Do you not realize that many elite female (at birth, XX) athletes do not get there periods due to intense training?

Not to mention we are talking about summer recreational swimming. Many XX female swimmers don’t have periods due to being 7.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be very cautious about basing any children's sports on genetic information. Honestly, how do people think that works? Are we going to require all kids to get genetically tested to participate in 6 weeks of summer swim? Or just the ones that are particularly tall, or maybe the ones with short hair?

My first choice is to recognize that summer swim is a rec sport, the point is for kids to form community, and be healthy, and have fun and that allowing kids to choose where to swim aligns with that.

But even for more competitive sports, HS varsity, or high level club sports, I can understand the argument for going by the sex assigned at birth. I can't understand placing the burden of genetic testing on every family, and I absolutely don't think that picking and choosing who will be tested is fair or makes sense.

Adult sports, NCAA, professional, Olympics etc . . . are a completely different situation.

There's this thing. It's called a birth certificate. This would be accurate for 99.9% of people. No genetic testing necessary.

Then why are people saying that they should go by whether someone has XX or XY and not saying go by the birth certificate?

There is this thing called mensturation. XY just don't do it. There no genetic testing necessary to figure that one out.

Do you not realize that many elite female (at birth, XX) athletes do not get there periods due to intense training?

There is a local club that intentionally trains their middle school girls as hard as possible to try and improve before and delay menstruation. When we heard that sales pitch from the coach we took our two daughters straight to another club.

You see this is where the rules about testosterone levels in the Olympics start to make sense. Girls shouldn't have to train like that to compete. They shouldn't have to train to beat the boys (XY) either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be very cautious about basing any children's sports on genetic information. Honestly, how do people think that works? Are we going to require all kids to get genetically tested to participate in 6 weeks of summer swim? Or just the ones that are particularly tall, or maybe the ones with short hair?

My first choice is to recognize that summer swim is a rec sport, the point is for kids to form community, and be healthy, and have fun and that allowing kids to choose where to swim aligns with that.

But even for more competitive sports, HS varsity, or high level club sports, I can understand the argument for going by the sex assigned at birth. I can't understand placing the burden of genetic testing on every family, and I absolutely don't think that picking and choosing who will be tested is fair or makes sense.

Adult sports, NCAA, professional, Olympics etc . . . are a completely different situation.

There's this thing. It's called a birth certificate. This would be accurate for 99.9% of people. No genetic testing necessary.

Then why are people saying that they should go by whether someone has XX or XY and not saying go by the birth certificate?

There is this thing called mensturation. XY just don't do it. There no genetic testing necessary to figure that one out.

The fact that you wrote this show your complete lack or medical knowledge and, thus, that you really have no right even being in this discussion.

But it would be great if we could establish a new MCSL volunteer position with the title “Menstrual Tracking Coordinator”

[Anonymous]

Getting back on track- does anyone know how MCDL or NVSL came to this guidance? It doesn’t sound like they or any of the pools that they represent had any community meetings or sought feedback on this issue. Given the sensitivity of the topic- that’s a bit concerning parents and communities weren’t allowed to weigh in….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Getting back on track- does anyone know how MCDL or NVSL came to this guidance? It doesn’t sound like they or any of the pools that they represent had any community meetings or sought feedback on this issue. Given the sensitivity of the topic- that’s a bit concerning parents and communities weren’t allowed to weigh in….

NVSL follows USA swimming guidance where it only comes into play at the elite athlete level. Once an athlete is competing at the elate level testosterone levels are checked.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.usaswimming.org/docs/default-source/governance/governance-lsc-website/rules_policies/usa-swimming-policy-19.pdf

Based on some of the, now deleted comments, on here I can see why a summer recreational swim league decided to follow a large governing body with decisions based on science vs feeling of parents. I can not even imagine how ugly a community meetings would be or maybe people are just more nasty behind the keyboard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting back on track- does anyone know how MCDL or NVSL came to this guidance? It doesn’t sound like they or any of the pools that they represent had any community meetings or sought feedback on this issue. Given the sensitivity of the topic- that’s a bit concerning parents and communities weren’t allowed to weigh in….

NVSL follows USA swimming guidance where it only comes into play at the elite athlete level. Once an athlete is competing at the elate level testosterone levels are checked.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.usaswimming.org/docs/default-source/governance/governance-lsc-website/rules_policies/usa-swimming-policy-19.pdf

Based on some of the, now deleted comments, on here I can see why a summer recreational swim league decided to follow a large governing body with decisions based on science vs feeling of parents. I can not even imagine how ugly a community meetings would be or maybe people are just more nasty behind the keyboard.

Fair point. But if you want parents to give up time in their schedules and volunteer to help at swim meets and other events, it would be nice to feel like our input is valued. It’s a sensitive topic that shouldn’t just be blindly rolled out without considering the community’s input.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting back on track- does anyone know how MCDL or NVSL came to this guidance? It doesn’t sound like they or any of the pools that they represent had any community meetings or sought feedback on this issue. Given the sensitivity of the topic- that’s a bit concerning parents and communities weren’t allowed to weigh in….

NVSL follows USA swimming guidance where it only comes into play at the elite athlete level. Once an athlete is competing at the elate level testosterone levels are checked.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.usaswimming.org/docs/default-source/governance/governance-lsc-website/rules_policies/usa-swimming-policy-19.pdf

Based on some of the, now deleted comments, on here I can see why a summer recreational swim league decided to follow a large governing body with decisions based on science vs feeling of parents. I can not even imagine how ugly a community meetings would be or maybe people are just more nasty behind the keyboard.

Fair point. But if you want parents to give up time in their schedules and volunteer to help at swim meets and other events, it would be nice to feel like our input is valued. It’s a sensitive topic that shouldn’t just be blindly rolled out without considering the community’s input.

In any given summer how many trans kids are your children swimming against? Is it really ruining their summer swim experience?

it is only sensitive if you make it that way. Unless the community is made up of actual medical experts vs parents with feelings I see no need for community input. So you would be cool with trans athletes if you felt your view was heard, even if it changed nothing about the current policy? This post alone show how ugly the community can be, what volunteer wants to sit through that meeting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting back on track- does anyone know how MCDL or NVSL came to this guidance? It doesn’t sound like they or any of the pools that they represent had any community meetings or sought feedback on this issue. Given the sensitivity of the topic- that’s a bit concerning parents and communities weren’t allowed to weigh in….

NVSL follows USA swimming guidance where it only comes into play at the elite athlete level. Once an athlete is competing at the elate level testosterone levels are checked.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.usaswimming.org/docs/default-source/governance/governance-lsc-website/rules_policies/usa-swimming-policy-19.pdf

Based on some of the, now deleted comments, on here I can see why a summer recreational swim league decided to follow a large governing body with decisions based on science vs feeling of parents. I can not even imagine how ugly a community meetings would be or maybe people are just more nasty behind the keyboard.

Fair point. But if you want parents to give up time in their schedules and volunteer to help at swim meets and other events, it would be nice to feel like our input is valued. It’s a sensitive topic that shouldn’t just be blindly rolled out without considering the community’s input.

FWIW PVS and individual clubs are not holding discussion to get parent input. Instead, they too are following the policies set forth under USA swimming. If these policies are good enough for clubs they are good enough for summer RECREATIONAL leagues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting back on track- does anyone know how MCDL or NVSL came to this guidance? It doesn’t sound like they or any of the pools that they represent had any community meetings or sought feedback on this issue. Given the sensitivity of the topic- that’s a bit concerning parents and communities weren’t allowed to weigh in….

NVSL follows USA swimming guidance where it only comes into play at the elite athlete level. Once an athlete is competing at the elate level testosterone levels are checked.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.usaswimming.org/docs/default-source/governance/governance-lsc-website/rules_policies/usa-swimming-policy-19.pdf

Based on some of the, now deleted comments, on here I can see why a summer recreational swim league decided to follow a large governing body with decisions based on science vs feeling of parents. I can not even imagine how ugly a community meetings would be or maybe people are just more nasty behind the keyboard.

Fair point. But if you want parents to give up time in their schedules and volunteer to help at swim meets and other events, it would be nice to feel like our input is valued. It’s a sensitive topic that shouldn’t just be blindly rolled out without considering the community’s input.

In any given summer how many trans kids are your children swimming against? Is it really ruining their summer swim experience?

it is only sensitive if you make it that way. Unless the community is made up of actual medical experts vs parents with feelings I see no need for community input. So you would be cool with trans athletes if you felt your view was heard, even if it changed nothing about the current policy? This post alone show how ugly the community can be, what volunteer wants to sit through that meeting?

It takes precisely one trans girl to kick an actual female out of a medal spot. For non competitive summer swim kids this is their only chance to medal in something. I don't care if it's not the olympics. I am not ok with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting back on track- does anyone know how MCDL or NVSL came to this guidance? It doesn’t sound like they or any of the pools that they represent had any community meetings or sought feedback on this issue. Given the sensitivity of the topic- that’s a bit concerning parents and communities weren’t allowed to weigh in….

NVSL follows USA swimming guidance where it only comes into play at the elite athlete level. Once an athlete is competing at the elate level testosterone levels are checked.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.usaswimming.org/docs/default-source/governance/governance-lsc-website/rules_policies/usa-swimming-policy-19.pdf

Based on some of the, now deleted comments, on here I can see why a summer recreational swim league decided to follow a large governing body with decisions based on science vs feeling of parents. I can not even imagine how ugly a community meetings would be or maybe people are just more nasty behind the keyboard.

Fair point. But if you want parents to give up time in their schedules and volunteer to help at swim meets and other events, it would be nice to feel like our input is valued. It’s a sensitive topic that shouldn’t just be blindly rolled out without considering the community’s input.

In any given summer how many trans kids are your children swimming against? Is it really ruining their summer swim experience?

it is only sensitive if you make it that way. Unless the community is made up of actual medical experts vs parents with feelings I see no need for community input. So you would be cool with trans athletes if you felt your view was heard, even if it changed nothing about the current policy? This post alone show how ugly the community can be, what volunteer wants to sit through that meeting?

It takes precisely one trans girl to kick an actual female out of a medal spot. For non competitive summer swim kids this is their only chance to medal in something. I don't care if it's not the olympics. I am not ok with this.

Oh please, all the club swimmer are kicking the non competitive kids out of medal contention. The one trans kid in your division is not the issue.

and has this fake scenario really happend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting back on track- does anyone know how MCDL or NVSL came to this guidance? It doesn’t sound like they or any of the pools that they represent had any community meetings or sought feedback on this issue. Given the sensitivity of the topic- that’s a bit concerning parents and communities weren’t allowed to weigh in….

NVSL follows USA swimming guidance where it only comes into play at the elite athlete level. Once an athlete is competing at the elate level testosterone levels are checked.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.usaswimming.org/docs/default-source/governance/governance-lsc-website/rules_policies/usa-swimming-policy-19.pdf

Based on some of the, now deleted comments, on here I can see why a summer recreational swim league decided to follow a large governing body with decisions based on science vs feeling of parents. I can not even imagine how ugly a community meetings would be or maybe people are just more nasty behind the keyboard.

Fair point. But if you want parents to give up time in their schedules and volunteer to help at swim meets and other events, it would be nice to feel like our input is valued. It’s a sensitive topic that shouldn’t just be blindly rolled out without considering the community’s input.

In any given summer how many trans kids are your children swimming against? Is it really ruining their summer swim experience?

it is only sensitive if you make it that way. Unless the community is made up of actual medical experts vs parents with feelings I see no need for community input. So you would be cool with trans athletes if you felt your view was heard, even if it changed nothing about the current policy? This post alone show how ugly the community can be, what volunteer wants to sit through that meeting?

It takes precisely one trans girl to kick an actual female out of a medal spot. For non competitive summer swim kids this is their only chance to medal in something. I don't care if it's not the olympics. I am not ok with this.

Oh please, all the club swimmer are kicking the non competitive kids out of medal contention. The one trans kid in your division is not the issue.

and has this fake scenario really happend?

Everyone has been saying that "Oh please", your little trans kid wants to swim with the girls so they can get that blue ribbon. People keep saying it's not a big deal so just let us have our way, but if it isn't a big deal let the goldfish go all ready.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting back on track- does anyone know how MCDL or NVSL came to this guidance? It doesn’t sound like they or any of the pools that they represent had any community meetings or sought feedback on this issue. Given the sensitivity of the topic- that’s a bit concerning parents and communities weren’t allowed to weigh in….

NVSL follows USA swimming guidance where it only comes into play at the elite athlete level. Once an athlete is competing at the elate level testosterone levels are checked.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.usaswimming.org/docs/default-source/governance/governance-lsc-website/rules_policies/usa-swimming-policy-19.pdf

Based on some of the, now deleted comments, on here I can see why a summer recreational swim league decided to follow a large governing body with decisions based on science vs feeling of parents. I can not even imagine how ugly a community meetings would be or maybe people are just more nasty behind the keyboard.

Fair point. But if you want parents to give up time in their schedules and volunteer to help at swim meets and other events, it would be nice to feel like our input is valued. It’s a sensitive topic that shouldn’t just be blindly rolled out without considering the community’s input.

In any given summer how many trans kids are your children swimming against? Is it really ruining their summer swim experience?

it is only sensitive if you make it that way. Unless the community is made up of actual medical experts vs parents with feelings I see no need for community input. So you would be cool with trans athletes if you felt your view was heard, even if it changed nothing about the current policy? This post alone show how ugly the community can be, what volunteer wants to sit through that meeting?

It takes precisely one trans girl to kick an actual female out of a medal spot. For non competitive summer swim kids this is their only chance to medal in something. I don't care if it's not the olympics. I am not ok with this.

Oh please, all the club swimmer are kicking the non competitive kids out of medal contention. The one trans kid in your division is not the issue.

and has this fake scenario really happend?

Everyone has been saying that "Oh please", your little trans kid wants to swim with the girls so they can get that blue ribbon. People keep saying it's not a big deal so just let us have our way, but if it isn't a big deal let the goldfish go all ready.

Someone will always beat your kid who is non competitive. Could be a year round club swimmer, could be a kid who is just physically larger, could be a kid who went through puberty earlier and is a full grown man at 15 (and swimming with the boys), could be a kid with a summer birthday who is on the higher end of the age bracket, but no, lets make this all about the few trans kids swimming in a rec league. What about them angers you so much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting back on track- does anyone know how MCDL or NVSL came to this guidance? It doesn’t sound like they or any of the pools that they represent had any community meetings or sought feedback on this issue. Given the sensitivity of the topic- that’s a bit concerning parents and communities weren’t allowed to weigh in….

NVSL follows USA swimming guidance where it only comes into play at the elite athlete level. Once an athlete is competing at the elate level testosterone levels are checked.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.usaswimming.org/docs/default-source/governance/governance-lsc-website/rules_policies/usa-swimming-policy-19.pdf

Based on some of the, now deleted comments, on here I can see why a summer recreational swim league decided to follow a large governing body with decisions based on science vs feeling of parents. I can not even imagine how ugly a community meetings would be or maybe people are just more nasty behind the keyboard.

Fair point. But if you want parents to give up time in their schedules and volunteer to help at swim meets and other events, it would be nice to feel like our input is valued. It’s a sensitive topic that shouldn’t just be blindly rolled out without considering the community’s input.

In any given summer how many trans kids are your children swimming against? Is it really ruining their summer swim experience?

it is only sensitive if you make it that way. Unless the community is made up of actual medical experts vs parents with feelings I see no need for community input. So you would be cool with trans athletes if you felt your view was heard, even if it changed nothing about the current policy? This post alone show how ugly the community can be, what volunteer wants to sit through that meeting?

It takes precisely one trans girl to kick an actual female out of a medal spot. For non competitive summer swim kids this is their only chance to medal in something. I don't care if it's not the olympics. I am not ok with this.

Oh please, all the club swimmer are kicking the non competitive kids out of medal contention. The one trans kid in your division is not the issue.

and has this fake scenario really happend?

DP. I agree that club swimmers are really the people booting the non competitive summer only kids out of A meets, All Stars, etc.; however, the argument that it hasn’t happened yet so it’s ok, holds no weight. The Lia Thomas situation hadn’t happened before until it did. If we all now have the benefit of seeing the potential for a situation to happen it should be addressed rather than hiding your head in the sand and saying well it hasn’t happened yet so let’s pretend it’s never going to. And since the Lia Thomas situation, female athletes themselves and people in general now feel more comfortable saying that trans women should not be competing in women’s sports. I know my teen daughter and her teammates have discussed the issue and all of them feel strongly that they should not have to share their locker room or compete against biological males. Their voices shouldn’t be silenced on this issue by people yelling into the abyss about how they are just bigots.