Vance shunned by Pope Francis?
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Anonymous
Adding for context: https://international.la-croix.com/religion/at-the-vatican-pope-francis-opponents-are-maneuvering |
Anonymous
Yeah. Super outspoken on the 2024 election, for example. When, as you might remember, he said Harris and Trump were equally bad choices, and American Catholics should figure it out for themselves. Because abortion and Project 2025 were equally bad sins in his opinion. Because an authoritarian who openly degrades the least of our people, and abuses our poor, our migrants, our citizens in need of food and education and shelter and compassion and empathy and allowing women making their own medical decisions are equal evils. They are not. This life sometimes gives you two bad options and says choose one. And throwing up your hands and letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is cowardice. And I do expect better from the Pope than than “she was bad on one issue so nope, let’s not speak out again a promise of harming millions of immigrants, people on Medicaid, poor people, federal employees, etc, etc. I respected this Pope. And had a lot of hope for him. But come on man. If you really want to walk the Catholic social justice walk, then you are in favor of universal pre-K, universal healthcare, a strong social safety net, USAID and are an AOC/ Bernie socialist. Because that’s what Jesus taught. And you can disagree with these positions. A lot of my Catholic family does. They conspicuously to the church of Sunday, eat fish on Friday and the rest of the week say such gross things about the poor, immigrants, trans people that my college aged kids don’t want to be near them. But they are hypocrites and judge others in a way Jesus would never condone. You can’t disagree with a strong social safety net and tout your Catholic bona fides. And apparently, because I had a wanted ectopic pregnancy and therefore having needed an abortion, I’m going to he11. My parents say so, and 20 years later still tell everyone how sad they are I won’t be in heaven with them. Because abortion is a mortal sin— one of the only ones you can’t atone for. So, I’m now a lapsed Catholic. Because I don’t believe in a church that would have me die at 30 for a futile pregnancy. And I don’t know what JD Vance is. But he certainly didn’t convert because he believes in most of the tenants of Catholicism. But spare me cheers for the Pope snubbing JD. In October 2024, when ihis words might have mattered, this Pope was silent. |
Anonymous
It is very sad that you’ve been through what you say you’ve been through. But (1) removal of the tube containing an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion as the Church defines one, and the Church specifically teaches that such surgery is, pursuant to “the principle of double effect,” not sinful; and (2) mortal sins, specifically including deliberate procured abortion, can be forgiven in confession if the pursing is truly sorry and has a firm purpose of amendment. |
Anonymous
| Everyone hates Vance! |
Anonymous
Yup, as I posted in the religion forum - If I picked up a hitchhiker and then he started attacking me, I would do my damndest to throw him out of the car. JD Vance, the first Catholic convert elected to the vice presidency, has provoked an extraordinary string of conflicts within the church he joined six years ago. gift link: https://wapo.st/427ED6d |
Anonymous
If you’re a sincere MAGA person, and we seem mean: That’s because Trump, Vance, Musk, Miller, et al. are pursuing their goals in a hateful, partisan, anti-democratic way, and apparently are trying to give control of the United States and the rest of the world to Putin. They’re even starving babies in Africa to death and causing babies around the world, including in the United States, to die of preventable diseases, either for no reason or to maintain tax breaks for rich people, and they’re crushing our universities and medical research, by not giving labs and universities any time to adapt to new rules. You might have some reasonable ideas and ideas, but your leaders are covering them with murder dust. If you think abortion is murder: OK, so, actually, do I. But your leaders are replacing quick murder with baby torture. |
Anonymous
“Truly sorry” for not dying due to a preventable medical outcome? And this is a belief system you expect women to embrace? Folks like you are insane. - Physician and NP |
Anonymous
He’s an Opus Dei kook and he’s going to twist it to meet the needs of Peter Thiel and the rest of those scumbags because they all want to restructure society. https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/j-d-vances-radical-religion https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/9/3/2267546/-Opus-Dei-the-Supreme-Court-and-J-D-Vance-a-speculation |
Anonymous
Your puerile name calling and incomprehensible vague reference to “preventable medical outcome” notwithstanding, my post was aimed at correcting what seemed to be a significant theological misunderstanding on the part of the poster I responded to about the positive morality of treating an ectopic pregnancy even if it results in the death of the child as an undesired second effect; and as to whether abortion is an “unforgivable” sin, which it is not. As for my “expectations” about the “belief system” any given person should “embrace,” I think they should follow whatever they conscientiously think true, but that in doing so they are best served by accurate foundational knowledge, which the PP in question appeared to lack. |
Anonymous
PP here and two things. Scratch that. Three. One, that’s your interpretation. And a valid one, but not the only one. I left the Church over this, so I did my homework, and discovered that… the Catholic Church is a mess on ectopic pregnancy, and you will get opinions from it’s still abortion, and you die now for the reward of heaven, to yours, to threading the needle with not using drugs for early ectopics and removing the tube with the fetus intact and having them die a natural death in the tube apart from your body before touching them— but putting the mother through invasive, unnecessary surgery and destroying her future fertility for the same outcome. I do know this— I would not want to end up in a Catholic Hospital with an ectopic. Because you really don’t know what rules a given hospital is playing by. Two— and this is huge. I was 30 with two young kids and was bleeding out in an ER. I’m not sorry about a d@mn thing. I mean, I mourned the loss of the child, just like when I miscarried a prior pregnancy. I cried for a long time. Still do 20 years later. But I am not sorry that I accepted medical care while I was literally dying. Because no matter what I did, there would not have been a baby. It sucks, but it’s true. The fetus wasn’t viable. And I did lose the tube. And never could have the third baby I wanted. Which also sucked. But at least I was around to raise the two beautiful children I had. I will not apologize for that choice. And I don’t believe in a God that wants me to ask for forgiveness for that decision. And three— and this is also huge. The Pope said before the 2024 election that Trump and Harris were morally equivalent choices and American Catholics should decide for themselves which was worse, or whether to vote at all. Certainly people like my parents took that and ran with “the Pope isn’t against MAGA”. In a close election, that mattered, especially since some swing states had high Catholic populations. He doesn’t now get to pretend he didn’t play a role in giving us Trump. |
Anonymous
Is he actually in Opus Dei? I didn't know that. |
Anonymous
Yes, he is a loser and always will be. |
Anonymous
“Puerile”. That anger is never far behind, is it? Just an FYI, an ectopic pregnancy cannot proceed to a viable term pregnancy. Ever. Hence, there is no “death of a child”. Do keep lecturing on this topic though. It’s going well. |
Anonymous
Best of luck and prayers to you as you work through your anger issues. |
Anonymous
| Well, Pope Francis just passed away. I hope Vance thinks about that for a moment, and how he has become such a jerk. |