ADHD Clusters in a classroom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If a kid really has impulsivity issues, not much will help except medication. No incentives or consequences. Kids need a lot more recess than they get.

This. It's really bad by MS and HS. Some of these kids cannot focus and it's caused them to miss huge chunks of material. Many read on a K-3 level and are still counting on their fingers. The ones who have the academic chops are also not performing as well as they should. Some of them could handle Honors level classes but aren't doing well because parents refuse to address the issue, so instead they play around in class and get in trouble.

If you look at which kids are chronically in trouble in grades 7-12 it tracks very closely with the ones who have problems with impulsivity.

I am a mom of a kid with ADHD and a kindergarten teacher. My son had ADHD and medication worked well for him. The boys in his class who also clearly had ADHD didn’t end up on medication. So they were in 5th grade with the impulsivity of a much younger child. Always in trouble for it. I felt bad for them. The other boys didn’t want to play with them at recess because they didn’t want to get in trouble all of the time. These kids became isolated and angry in MS (I was friends with their moms). One stopped going to HS and the other struggled academically and socially. The mom took him out and home schooled him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC is ADHD is in one of these cluster classes. Unfortunately many of the kids in the class are slower than average. They aren’t so slow that they qualify for special education they just aren’t very bright.

Im frustrated because my ADHD DC kid is extremely bright and the slower kids hold him back. He’s bored so he gets frustrated and acts out. He often gets sent to the AAP classroom because they are moving at a quicker pace and the classrooms are quiet so he in turn quiets down and gets his work done.

At some point a teacher expressed frustration and directly stated that my DC didn’t belong in that class because they functioned at a much higher level, even with ADHD, than the other kids including the non ADHD kids. Having the cognitively challenged kids and the ADHD kids in the same class room made her job more difficult and wasn’t fair to kid like mine who were given the opportunity capable of functioning at a higher level. It’s a waste all around really.

If everything was the fault of those "slower" kids and his boredom and he behaved better in AAP and could keep up, they would put him there. My child has been with plenty of kids with mild behavior issues in AAP, honors and AP classes over the years. I suggest rather than venting here knowing full well some of us have kids with learning disabilities (or as you call them "slow"), you focus your energy on respectfully advocating for him to be in AAP. I can assure you if his behavior is miraculous better and he is as advanced as you say, this should be easy enough as long as you are professional and leave out your assessment of other students.

[Anonymous]

f everything was the fault of those "slower" kids and his boredom and he behaved better in AAP and could keep up, they would put him there. My child has been with plenty of kids with mild behavior issues in AAP, honors and AP classes over the years. I suggest rather than venting here knowing full well some of us have kids with learning disabilities (or as you call them "slow"), you focus your energy on respectfully advocating for him to be in AAP. I can assure you if his behavior is miraculous better and he is as advanced as you say, this should be easy enough as long as you are professional and leave out your assessment of other students.

Agree. Funny, how people always have opinions about the other kids in the class and how their kid would be just fine if they were not there.

former first grade teacher

I taught large first grade classes with a wide span of abilities and behaviors. People are quick to blame other kids when, sometimes, it is their own kid who is the problem. Even GT kids can be taught in self-contained GenEd classes. And, so can those who do not catch on as quickly. Sometimes those kids have more common sense than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If a kid really has impulsivity issues, not much will help except medication. No incentives or consequences. Kids need a lot more recess than they get.

This. It's really bad by MS and HS. Some of these kids cannot focus and it's caused them to miss huge chunks of material. Many read on a K-3 level and are still counting on their fingers. The ones who have the academic chops are also not performing as well as they should. Some of them could handle Honors level classes but aren't doing well because parents refuse to address the issue, so instead they play around in class and get in trouble.

If you look at which kids are chronically in trouble in grades 7-12 it tracks very closely with the ones who have problems with impulsivity.

And, everyone thinks that medication is the only answer. Scary.

Medication is not the only answer but in general the parents who refuse to entertain it also refuse to do any of the heavy lifting that’s required to teach kids how to manage ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a disaster. My kid's 504 plan stipulates that he'll get preferential seating next to high-achieving kids. Seating him next to other ADHD kids would be a nightmare.

Wait, what??? Come back to that accommodation: preferential seating next to high achieving kids.

I do not believe this. How could you enforce this without revealing protected information about another student? Let’s say you go to the school to say the 504 is not being followed because your little Pierpont has been seated next to Larlo who you think is not very bright. Are you expecting the school to prove that Larlo really is high achieving to defend themselves against your accusation of not following the 504???

Preferential seating near the teacher is an accommodation. But preferential seating near a particular student? Yeah, no.

Well, this really is not enforceable. It’s a 504 for one, which have been abused so much (case in point) that they’re functionally useless. But also, there is no legal standing for ANOTHER student to be the source of the accommodation to support a student. None. As a teacher, I would not absolutely have pushed back on this in the team meeting. As it is, I doubt many of the teachers are actually following it as it’s not ethical.

How are 504s being abused? People are faking it?

They’re getting ridiculous accommodations in them like the PP or they’re trying to essentially game them into being IEPs and acting as if they have the same legal bearing as an IEP, which they do not.

[Anonymous]

504 accommodations are pretty basic. What accommodations are you referring to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:504 accommodations are pretty basic. What accommodations are you referring to?

The one the mom posted toward the beginning of this thread where her kid gets preferential seating next to an “high achieving student.” That’s not only not enforceable, it’s ludicrous. I have had kids with 504s with 6-7 different accommodations in them because even though the child didn’t qualify for an IEP, the parent still tried to treat the 504 like an IEP and the staff writing them are not involved with sped, so they often don’t know what is reasonablen to be added to a 504.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:504 accommodations are pretty basic. What accommodations are you referring to?

HS teacher. Here is a smattering of accommodations from this year:

1.5x on all assessments (I’m not exaggerating when I say 20% of my entire rosters have this)
Preferential seating near point of instruction (I have one period were 12 kids have this. There are not 12 seats front and center)
No penalty for late work, up to 1 month late
Teacher will contact parent when any assignment is not turned in
Student will be provided with answer keys to all classwork to check their work before submitting assignments
Student can take all assessments in an empty classroom nearby (too anxious to test around other people)
Student may have access to their phone during tests to listen to music
Teacher will review student answers on an assessment and return it to them to finish any that are still left blank or incomplete
Teacher will verify that student has recorded homework assignment in a physical planner and will notify parents daily of the assignment (whyyyyy??? Isn’t that why I spend time putting things in schoology?)
Student will have access to mentor at any point in the day when feeling anxious (not sure how this is realistic since mentor teaches classes)

I teach mostly freshmen, so the middle school is sending tons of stuff in 504s that we weed through and try to make more reasonable. Once it’s in the document though, parents largely refuse to remove it.

When I started, 504s were things like “access to food and drink” for a diabetic kid or “unlimited bathroom passes” for crohns or “change in clinic for PE” for the child with an eating disorder who didn’t want to see other bodies or “leave class 2 minutes early” for the kid with mobility challenges who didn’t need to fight crowded hallways. Easy things to set procedures for at the beginning of the year, but no extra work for me.

Now? I spend 30 minutes every day on 504 accommodations. Any assessment day means I give up my lunch and after school time for kids to finish. Every class period is multiple parent emails updating them on missed work (which they could see in sis) or upcoming assignments (visible in schoology). I have to prepare answer keys to everything ahead of time instead of just posting my smart board files after class like I used to. It’s a lot, and it’s all outside my school day.

I don’t begrudge families for trying to help their child be successful, but oftentimes it is putting all the onus for responsibility onto me instead of their child.) I worry where these kids will be after graduating. No one is going to tell mom that kid’s shift at work moved or that the paper in English 101 is due. Going from “teacher and parent manage everything” to “student is independent” isn’t a magic shift, it needs to gradually be learned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:504 accommodations are pretty basic. What accommodations are you referring to?

Not always!

Just a few of the accommodations I have seen in 504 plans (in secondary school):

- 2x extended time on all assignments and assessments
- Student will be permitted to take assessments in an alternative setting with a preferred proctor
- Student will be given two, five-minute movement breaks during each instructional block
- Teacher will send home daily communication regarding assignments, work completion, and student's attitude during class.
- Teacher will remind student every 15 minutes to take deep breaths to stay calm
- All assessment questions will be sent home a week in advance
- Answer keys to all classwork will be provided ahead of time
- Class notes will be provided 48 hours in advance
- Teacher will assist student in color-coding all notes and other classwork to aid in organization of content
- Student may have access to alternative searing, such as a couch or beanbag, when requested
- Student will have unencumbered access to counseling staff

[Anonymous]

Hmmm. I wonder why there is a teacher shortage. Ridiculous accommodations except for the simple ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:504 accommodations are pretty basic. What accommodations are you referring to?

HS teacher. Here is a smattering of accommodations from this year:

1.5x on all assessments (I’m not exaggerating when I say 20% of my entire rosters have this)
Preferential seating near point of instruction (I have one period were 12 kids have this. There are not 12 seats front and center)
No penalty for late work, up to 1 month late
Teacher will contact parent when any assignment is not turned in
Student will be provided with answer keys to all classwork to check their work before submitting assignments
Student can take all assessments in an empty classroom nearby (too anxious to test around other people)
Student may have access to their phone during tests to listen to music
Teacher will review student answers on an assessment and return it to them to finish any that are still left blank or incomplete
Teacher will verify that student has recorded homework assignment in a physical planner and will notify parents daily of the assignment (whyyyyy??? Isn’t that why I spend time putting things in schoology?)
Student will have access to mentor at any point in the day when feeling anxious (not sure how this is realistic since mentor teaches classes)

I teach mostly freshmen, so the middle school is sending tons of stuff in 504s that we weed through and try to make more reasonable. Once it’s in the document though, parents largely refuse to remove it.
...

These are great, when I get mine setup for my kid, I'll be sure to have our say "2.5x on all assessments." And also, it would just be easier on the teacher if mine were to say, to "have the teacher fill in the answers to all the blank questions." That would save the teacher some time.

These are great ideas, thanks for sharing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:504 accommodations are pretty basic. What accommodations are you referring to?

HS teacher. Here is a smattering of accommodations from this year:

1.5x on all assessments (I’m not exaggerating when I say 20% of my entire rosters have this)
Preferential seating near point of instruction (I have one period were 12 kids have this. There are not 12 seats front and center)
No penalty for late work, up to 1 month late
Teacher will contact parent when any assignment is not turned in
Student will be provided with answer keys to all classwork to check their work before submitting assignments
Student can take all assessments in an empty classroom nearby (too anxious to test around other people)
Student may have access to their phone during tests to listen to music
Teacher will review student answers on an assessment and return it to them to finish any that are still left blank or incomplete
Teacher will verify that student has recorded homework assignment in a physical planner and will notify parents daily of the assignment (whyyyyy??? Isn’t that why I spend time putting things in schoology?)
Student will have access to mentor at any point in the day when feeling anxious (not sure how this is realistic since mentor teaches classes)

I teach mostly freshmen, so the middle school is sending tons of stuff in 504s that we weed through and try to make more reasonable. Once it’s in the document though, parents largely refuse to remove it.
...

These are great, when I get mine setup for my kid, I'll be sure to have our say "2.5x on all assessments." And also, it would just be easier on the teacher if mine were to say, to "have the teacher fill in the answers to all the blank questions." That would save the teacher some time.

These are great ideas, thanks for sharing!

You jest (I hope), but this is how the Facebook groups for parents work. Instead of brainstorming strategies and supports for the kid with teachers and parents together, parents ask, “what accommodations have you gotten for ________” and then they ask the school for all of those things. Maybe their child has never needed 1.5x on assessments and has no testing to back up a need for it, but they have a diagnosis of _____ and a low grade in math, so let’s throw every accommodation and them and hope their math grade goes up.

In my 20 years in the classroom I can think of 3 kids who actually needed and used the extended time. They had slower processing despite being very bright, or I would see them zone in and out during an exam. The other 85729264 kids with it just don’t know their content. It buys them the lunch block to ask their friends what was on the exam, come back after school, and finish quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:504 accommodations are pretty basic. What accommodations are you referring to?

HS teacher. Here is a smattering of accommodations from this year:

1.5x on all assessments (I’m not exaggerating when I say 20% of my entire rosters have this)
Preferential seating near point of instruction (I have one period were 12 kids have this. There are not 12 seats front and center)
No penalty for late work, up to 1 month late
Teacher will contact parent when any assignment is not turned in
Student will be provided with answer keys to all classwork to check their work before submitting assignments
Student can take all assessments in an empty classroom nearby (too anxious to test around other people)
Student may have access to their phone during tests to listen to music
Teacher will review student answers on an assessment and return it to them to finish any that are still left blank or incomplete
Teacher will verify that student has recorded homework assignment in a physical planner and will notify parents daily of the assignment (whyyyyy??? Isn’t that why I spend time putting things in schoology?)
Student will have access to mentor at any point in the day when feeling anxious (not sure how this is realistic since mentor teaches classes)

I teach mostly freshmen, so the middle school is sending tons of stuff in 504s that we weed through and try to make more reasonable. Once it’s in the document though, parents largely refuse to remove it.
...

These are great, when I get mine setup for my kid, I'll be sure to have our say "2.5x on all assessments." And also, it would just be easier on the teacher if mine were to say, to "have the teacher fill in the answers to all the blank questions." That would save the teacher some time.

These are great ideas, thanks for sharing!

You might be joking but just in case, please everyone don’t assume “if 1.5 time is better 2.5 time is even better than that.” A lot of kids absolutely DROWN with too much extra time. The work gets pushed so far out that they forget the material, never finish it, etc . Again, this is why an IEP with a special education case manager who understands the DISABILITY and which accommodations support the student with the disability and which accommodations would simply make things worse or compound the issue is key. A random staff writing whatever the parent wants in the 504 does not create a helpful document!

[Anonymous]

My son with ADHD said, “Extra time won’t help me if I don’t know the answer.” I think extra time should be for students with documented low processing speed. That doesn’t describe all kids with ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They tend to group IEP/504 kids in one class so the special Ed teacher can stay in there most of the day. It sucks.

I hope someone discriminates against your kids, too.

Who is discriminating against whom in this situation, PP? The school discriminating against special education children? Me discriminating against them because I'm pissed that my child is suffering the consequences of their bad behavior? At least once a week, the entire classroom gets punished because clustered together, these boys play off each other and everything gets escalated. It's just a really horrible situation for all the other kids all because everything has to center around this one group of kids and they're not allowed to be punished because they have an IEP or 504.

The bolded is not true. Also, not all ADHD kids are hyperactive or disturbing to others. Again, you are stereotyping, and I hope your kid will experience the same.

sheesh, maybe don't curse someone's kids for whay may have been a hastily written note