NYT article on men struggling with their place in society

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The other thread on this has been eye-opening.

I'm beginning to see how Trump won. He's a voice for the marginalized and straight white dudes now see themselves that way due to overzealous DEI practices.

I find some DEI practices a bit too restrictive. We had a female employee give notice and to maintain a "good ratio" on our team, my supervisor said the new hire had to be a woman. So boobs > qualifications, cool.

Perhaps your supervisor likes making $$. Having women in the C-suite makes companies more profitable.

“A profitable firm at which 30 percent of leaders are women could expect to add more than 1 percentage point to its net margin compared with an otherwise similar firm with no female leaders,” the report notes. “By way of comparison, the typical profitable firm in our sample had a net profit margin of 6.4 percent, so a 1 percentage point increase represents a 15 percent boost to profitability.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/02/why-companies-with-female-managers-make-more-money.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they suddenly are experiencing a lack of sea parting for straight men in society and are having breakdowns and being crybabies. Mad because society has started to value competence and excellence over gender/race/physical appearance/stereotypes of what kind of people should be in what roles in society.

Agree. There is an idiom for this: when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

An example is a study done in business meetings. When women spoke 25% of the time, men said that men and women spoke equally as often. When women spoke just 30% of the time, men said that women dominated the conversation. It objectively wasn’t true, but women only had to speak a little more for men to think they were dominating the conversation.

Men (esp white men of a certain age) were raised believing that they would be at the top of the food chain. And that’s still mostly true. But they have to share some of the spotlight now, and boy, they don’t like it.

[Anonymous]

This is an interesting article. What kind of gets to me is the idea that Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro are news. This is like saying that Vanderpump Rules and Real Housewives are news. They are entertainment. It’s fine, but you have to recognize that it’s entertainment. You can’t get the conversations people are having in these shows confused with actual news reporting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting article. What kind of gets to me is the idea that Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro are news. This is like saying that Vanderpump Rules and Real Housewives are news. They are entertainment. It’s fine, but you have to recognize that it’s entertainment. You can’t get the conversations people are having in these shows confused with actual news reporting.

OP here. That was disturbing to me too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting article. What kind of gets to me is the idea that Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro are news. This is like saying that Vanderpump Rules and Real Housewives are news. They are entertainment. It’s fine, but you have to recognize that it’s entertainment. You can’t get the conversations people are having in these shows confused with actual news reporting.

The line no longer exists for RWNJs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting article. What kind of gets to me is the idea that Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro are news. This is like saying that Vanderpump Rules and Real Housewives are news. They are entertainment. It’s fine, but you have to recognize that it’s entertainment. You can’t get the conversations people are having in these shows confused with actual news reporting.

I used to talk to my friends about this all the time it was wild to me, that people thought Rush Limbaugh was real. I was like that’s like thinking WWF is real. You know it’s all made up right?

It’s entertainment, it’s not their true opinions. It’s just the opinions they know will sell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to speak specifically to the door holding thing:

20 years ago I was an intern in the US Senate and gave constituent tours. In between making up facts about the capitol building, I had to usher people through doors that required a badge swipe to access. Standard procedure was: I swipe my badge, open door, hold it as they all walk through, I close door and secure it.

This would *break* some of the men on my tours. Especially older men, but young ones too. They couldn't handle having a 20 yr old woman hold a door open for them. Some of them would try to forcibly take the door from me. Most would just stand there, waiting for me to go through the door before them. I would explain i had to go through last. They would persist, say things like "I wasn't raised that way."

It was a small inconvenience but it was also deranged and really stuck with me. Perhaps they just struggled with a rule that had always been drilled into them (ladies first). Or perhaps the role reversal felt like a loss of status and control.

But that's what I thought about when I read the thing about these men feeling like women didn't want them to hold open doors for them.

Only crazy progressive women get upset about men holding the doors for them.

Wrong. I'm not a crazy progressive and don't like it.

Why? Would you be upset if a woman held the door open for you? It's just courtesy. Weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to speak specifically to the door holding thing:

20 years ago I was an intern in the US Senate and gave constituent tours. In between making up facts about the capitol building, I had to usher people through doors that required a badge swipe to access. Standard procedure was: I swipe my badge, open door, hold it as they all walk through, I close door and secure it.

This would *break* some of the men on my tours. Especially older men, but young ones too. They couldn't handle having a 20 yr old woman hold a door open for them. Some of them would try to forcibly take the door from me. Most would just stand there, waiting for me to go through the door before them. I would explain i had to go through last. They would persist, say things like "I wasn't raised that way."

It was a small inconvenience but it was also deranged and really stuck with me. Perhaps they just struggled with a rule that had always been drilled into them (ladies first). Or perhaps the role reversal felt like a loss of status and control.

But that's what I thought about when I read the thing about these men feeling like women didn't want them to hold open doors for them.

Only crazy progressive women get upset about men holding the doors for them.

It was quite literally her job to hold the door, close it, and lock it after everybody.

Are you insane?

I'm not responding to her situation directly. I'm just saying, any woman who gets upset about a man holding the door for her is weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they suddenly are experiencing a lack of sea parting for straight men in society and are having breakdowns and being crybabies. Mad because society has started to value competence and excellence over gender/race/physical appearance/stereotypes of what kind of people should be in what roles in society.

Agree. There is an idiom for this: when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

An example is a study done in business meetings. When women spoke 25% of the time, men said that men and women spoke equally as often. When women spoke just 30% of the time, men said that women dominated the conversation. It objectively wasn’t true, but women only had to speak a little more for men to think they were dominating the conversation.

Men (esp white men of a certain age) were raised believing that they would be at the top of the food chain. And that’s still mostly true. But they have to share some of the spotlight now, and boy, they don’t like it.

+1 yep They call assertive women a "b!!tch", but assertive men "masculine".

I've had to deal with that my whole life as a middle aged woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they suddenly are experiencing a lack of sea parting for straight men in society and are having breakdowns and being crybabies. Mad because society has started to value competence and excellence over gender/race/physical appearance/stereotypes of what kind of people should be in what roles in society.

+1

Cry me a river.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting article. What kind of gets to me is the idea that Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro are news. This is like saying that Vanderpump Rules and Real Housewives are news. They are entertainment. It’s fine, but you have to recognize that it’s entertainment. You can’t get the conversations people are having in these shows confused with actual news reporting.

People are totally getting their news from podcasts, that’s why Trump went on Rogan. Not Rogan so much, but that incel red pill content is disturbing and it’s fear mongering to young men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The other thread on this has been eye-opening.

I'm beginning to see how Trump won. He's a voice for the marginalized and straight white dudes now see themselves that way due to overzealous DEI practices.

I find some DEI practices a bit too restrictive. We had a female employee give notice and to maintain a "good ratio" on our team, my supervisor said the new hire had to be a woman. So boobs > qualifications, cool.

I think it's situations like this, which happen, that have created a narrative for some portion of the population that white men (and sometimes white women too) are victims.

In many parts of life - working class jobs, college admissions, professional jobs - we have been told out loud that white people's piece of the pie needs to be smaller in whatever way we can make it happen. This is because their piece of the pie was way too big. But the white people alive right this minute in this time, they FEEL and they PERCEIVE that they are being squeezed out. And isn't life all about perceptions? They perceive their piece of the pie is shrinking (and maybe it is) and there is the same number of them and they're scrambling for someone to blame and an answer and a way to keep the piece of the pie for themselves and most importantly, their children.

I think this is important to talk about if we want to understand the rise of Trump. Dismissing it as "insane" is at our own peril.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to speak specifically to the door holding thing:

20 years ago I was an intern in the US Senate and gave constituent tours. In between making up facts about the capitol building, I had to usher people through doors that required a badge swipe to access. Standard procedure was: I swipe my badge, open door, hold it as they all walk through, I close door and secure it.

This would *break* some of the men on my tours. Especially older men, but young ones too. They couldn't handle having a 20 yr old woman hold a door open for them. Some of them would try to forcibly take the door from me. Most would just stand there, waiting for me to go through the door before them. I would explain i had to go through last. They would persist, say things like "I wasn't raised that way."

It was a small inconvenience but it was also deranged and really stuck with me. Perhaps they just struggled with a rule that had always been drilled into them (ladies first). Or perhaps the role reversal felt like a loss of status and control.

But that's what I thought about when I read the thing about these men feeling like women didn't want them to hold open doors for them.

Only crazy progressive women get upset about men holding the doors for them.

It was quite literally her job to hold the door, close it, and lock it after everybody.

Are you insane?

I'm not responding to her situation directly. I'm just saying, any woman who gets upset about a man holding the door for her is weird.

When was the last time that actually happy you? How many times in your whole life has that happened?

Are you cool if an 90 yo woman held the door for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other thread on this has been eye-opening.

I'm beginning to see how Trump won. He's a voice for the marginalized and straight white dudes now see themselves that way due to overzealous DEI practices.

I find some DEI practices a bit too restrictive. We had a female employee give notice and to maintain a "good ratio" on our team, my supervisor said the new hire had to be a woman. So boobs > qualifications, cool.

I think it's situations like this, which happen, that have created a narrative for some portion of the population that white men (and sometimes white women too) are victims.

In many parts of life - working class jobs, college admissions, professional jobs - we have been told out loud that white people's piece of the pie needs to be smaller in whatever way we can make it happen. This is because their piece of the pie was way too big. But the white people alive right this minute in this time, they FEEL and they PERCEIVE that they are being squeezed out. And isn't life all about perceptions? They perceive their piece of the pie is shrinking (and maybe it is) and there is the same number of them and they're scrambling for someone to blame and an answer and a way to keep the piece of the pie for themselves and most importantly, their children.

I think this is important to talk about if we want to understand the rise of Trump. Dismissing it as "insane" is at our own peril.

Sort of. But your math is all off. Both back then and now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other thread on this has been eye-opening.

I'm beginning to see how Trump won. He's a voice for the marginalized and straight white dudes now see themselves that way due to overzealous DEI practices.

I find some DEI practices a bit too restrictive. We had a female employee give notice and to maintain a "good ratio" on our team, my supervisor said the new hire had to be a woman. So boobs > qualifications, cool.

I think it's situations like this, which happen, that have created a narrative for some portion of the population that white men (and sometimes white women too) are victims.

In many parts of life - working class jobs, college admissions, professional jobs - we have been told out loud that white people's piece of the pie needs to be smaller in whatever way we can make it happen. This is because their piece of the pie was way too big. But the white people alive right this minute in this time, they FEEL and they PERCEIVE that they are being squeezed out. And isn't life all about perceptions? They perceive their piece of the pie is shrinking (and maybe it is) and there is the same number of them and they're scrambling for someone to blame and an answer and a way to keep the piece of the pie for themselves and most importantly, their children.

I think this is important to talk about if we want to understand the rise of Trump. Dismissing it as "insane" is at our own peril.

First of all, the idea of limited resources is a fallacy.

Also, if you only feel comfortable discussing things with the concept that there are limited resources than the people, you should have a problem with other people that eat so much pie they are throwing up and have to give it to Africa because they have so much… billionaires.