Fascinating article from the WSJ re the methods of an "elite" college counseling firm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to see a grass root movement of applicants using the additional information section to note that they didn't use a private counselor

You’re assuming it’s a negative. It may be a neutral for them. Not something that detracts or adds.

[Anonymous]

In Sydney, you can pay them to put you on a pre-fab “research” project. They have it all set up with the professor. Just send that cash and awaaaaayyyyy you go. Nifty!

[Anonymous]

This phrase says it all:

“…mine the rich vein of parental anxiety…”

[Anonymous]

Such a sad state of things!

if you cannot be a "top performener" then drop that area. And we wonder why kids have anxiety and mental health issues. Not everyone can be #1 at everything. I for one prefer that my kids did what they enjoyed in ES/MS/HS. From a young age we "required" them to have one artsy/music activity and one active/sporty/physical activity. They got to pick it, but once selected they had to stick with it for the seasons/session we paid for. (can't drop soccer halfway thru just cause you no longer want to do it---but you can drop it at the end of soccer season).
As they got older they developed preferences and we let them focus on what they wanted to do. Both kids were in HS band, but dropped their lessons by 9th grade. One did baseball the other was a dancer. Both were good, but not "tippy top". Who cares? They were doing what they loved and learning to work as a team and had friends from their activities.
But I would never make them drop something because they are not #1---that seems ridiculous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Such a sad state of things!

if you cannot be a "top performener" then drop that area. And we wonder why kids have anxiety and mental health issues. Not everyone can be #1 at everything. I for one prefer that my kids did what they enjoyed in ES/MS/HS. From a young age we "required" them to have one artsy/music activity and one active/sporty/physical activity. They got to pick it, but once selected they had to stick with it for the seasons/session we paid for. (can't drop soccer halfway thru just cause you no longer want to do it---but you can drop it at the end of soccer season).
As they got older they developed preferences and we let them focus on what they wanted to do. Both kids were in HS band, but dropped their lessons by 9th grade. One did baseball the other was a dancer. Both were good, but not "tippy top". Who cares? They were doing what they loved and learning to work as a team and had friends from their activities.
But I would never make them drop something because they are not #1---that seems ridiculous

But this is the reason why so many are now pursuing obscure instruments and sports, origami competitions, and other crap. The claim is that this "makes them interesting". In reality, they couldn't be #1 doing popular stuff so they excelled at weirdness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This article should tell you how fake everything is.. from what activities to choose to what classes etc to take. Everything is curated. What a way to kill your innate passion and creativity.. 11 year olds already on this path to get into an Ivy.

From the article..

One of her stu­dents has 23 tu­tors help­ing her on aca­d­e­mic sub­jects and test prepa­ra­tion. The stu­dent is also writ­ing a novel, edit­ing an es­say for a com­pet­i­tive jour­nal and work­ing on a re­search pa­per that looks at the lin­guis­tic pat­terns in Tay­lor Swift songs.

I'm happy my kids had a happy childhood (actual childhood) and got to choose their activities because they enjoyed them.

BTW, one attended their top choice the other attended their 2nd choice (top was a T10, 2nd was a T40 and in reality a better fit for them and they are thriving there).

Best part, my kids got to grow up as they should and were not trying to write a novel in HS or do research as a 12 yo.

The one at a T40 is majoring in one of the hardest engineering (Chem Eng) and has all As in every Chem Eng Course. The kid thinks Thermo and Heat&Mass transfer is easy and fun. They have a bright future ahead and most importantly are healthy and happy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article should tell you how fake everything is.. from what activities to choose to what classes etc to take. Everything is curated. What a way to kill your innate passion and creativity.. 11 year olds already on this path to get into an Ivy.

From the article..

One of her stu­dents has 23 tu­tors help­ing her on aca­d­e­mic sub­jects and test prepa­ra­tion. The stu­dent is also writ­ing a novel, edit­ing an es­say for a com­pet­i­tive jour­nal and work­ing on a re­search pa­per that looks at the lin­guis­tic pat­terns in Tay­lor Swift songs.

It's interesting because you can get to at least some of this organically. Decades ago I had an internship in software engineering in high school...just because I really thought it would be fun. My interests bopped around a little bit, but my ultimate resume ended up looking kind of like the poor man's version of these kids who have these expensive college counselors. But it was all self-driven. Because of that, it was actually fun and interesting.

Self driven is extremely different than paying someone $50K+ to curate your life from 6th grade forward in hopes of getting into a Top college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In Sydney, you can pay them to put you on a pre-fab “research” project. They have it all set up with the professor. Just send that cash and awaaaaayyyyy you go. Nifty!

there are lots of these in the US, India, etc. Pay to play research. They're generally around 5-9K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to see a grass root movement of applicants using the additional information section to note that they didn't use a private counselor

You’re assuming it’s a negative. It may be a neutral for them. Not something that detracts or adds.

I'm assuming it's a positive. "this is my work"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The AOs are not “falling for it.” They helped create it and they know what is going on. It’s so much BS. They say they want to hear the student’s authentic voice but they don’t. They admit these heavily “curated” students. They reward and encourage this behavior.

The problem is this strongly favors rich kids. So the AOs are full of it wrt actual diversity on campus.

Exactly. AOs are a crucial part of this, not innocent bystanders. If you look at Crimson website you see that many of their counselors are former AOs.

The best job for an AO after their 5 years in admissions is at a private company like this. The pipeline.

Which means they feed each other. Gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a very smart and accomplished kid and all these articles do is prejudice me and my kid against these supposedly "elite" schools. We can afford tuition at top private colleges and could afford to hire consultants like this. We genuinely do not want to. Our DC has always been self-driven, hardworking, and intellectually curious without pushing. Our goal has always been to support and ensure opportunities were there, but not to force anything. We have no appetite for playing this game.

If my kid was dead set in a T10 I'd probably do it just because I know she'd make the most of that education and I wouldn't want to be the thing that stood in her way. But her response to stuff like this is to focus more on state flagships and to focus on lower ranked schools that are especially well respected or have very well respected faculty or research opportunities in her likely major. She doesn't want to have to put in a show to get into college. And her grades and test scores are high enough that she really shouldn't have to -- she's already done the work. She's not going to found a fake non-profit or waste time she could spend on something that really matters to her but won't look good on a college app (like go camping with her friends for the first time alone) to write a mediocre fiction novel just to impress and admissions officer.

I think other kids like this will also start opting out of this rat race for their own mental well being.

This is how it's done (what your kid is doing)! Someone with drive and determination like that will thrive wherever they go. At your state school (in the honor program) or at a smaller school with a great dept for your major, your kid will be able to shine. HS kids should be pursuing what they want, not curating a resume for college admissions (beyond the reasonable request that yes you need to volunteer with something, you need to have a few activities that your pursue, ideally for a long time not just switching each semester, and you need to enjoy it.

I want my kids to be happy, not robots, driven by a 50K+ counselor.

Now, we did use a $4K (for all 4 years, we only used them for 15 months) counselor. Helped curate a good list of colleges to consider, and my kid's top 3 choices only 1 would I have known about previously. They help you plan curriculum (but I had already done that and my kid is smart---they knew go as far as you can with STEM and AP because you want to be an engineering major, but chose to not waste time with APUSH/APEng---good choice because their top 2 choices wouldn't have allowed those credits for Core Curriculum anyhow. Most important part of the CC was they helped set a timeline and helped my kid brainstorm essays (helped---my kid did the work). It meant by Nov 1 95% was submitted (only the non-EA schools were not submitted, but they were well on the way to completion--just waiting for ED in Dec to finish those or not). So Nov and beyond was not stressful and my kid could enjoy the holidays and their senior year

[Anonymous]

Perhaps I'm slow (because I only attended a state school after all!), but I would love to understand the parents' thought process here.

Is the expectation that the student will transform from someone who requires 23 tutors and curated hobbies into a young adult who can function independently? Or how is that supposed to work out? Do they not think beyond the Ivy admission?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly we need a new checkbox on the Common App: Did you work with a college counselor other than the one at your school on this application?

And then what? Colleges have no interest in removing these students from the applicant pool. There’s a host of reasons people use counselors: maybe parents are from abroad and find our system confusing. Many a kid is first gen and getting free counseling from a CBO. Maybe a kid has learning differences and searching for a special college that fits well. Maybe students are looking for merit and a counselor is advising them on list building?

Using a counselor isn’t problematic. But using someone who writes your essay & creates a false profile is. Big difference

Yup! A good CC (by my definition) helps you over the 4 years (if needed) to create a list of courses to be ready for college (someone first gen may not have parents who understand this fully), helps you know that you need some EC activities in HS and that it's good to find a few that you like and pursue them for all of HS (dont' just bounce from 1 activity to another every few months---they like to see 4 years of band/orch or 4 years of drama club or 4 years of a sport), encourage you to find volunteering that is meaningful and does more than just check a box, help you find a few EC activities to supplement your academic interests, help create a great list of potential colleges for your intended majors (they are highly skilled at this and will help you have a great list of ones you can afford as well as true Reaches, targets and safeties that your kid actually likes), help with test prep, and help with essay development (brainstorming, but the kid does 99% of the work, CC just guides and makes them think and revise). And most importantly, it saves your sanity senior year so you do NOT have to nag your kid to stay on schedule.

Yes, it's a privilege to be able to afford that. Yes, you can do most of it yourself. Aside from the essay writing, I can do the rest. But our CC helped find some hidden gems for my kid---ones I may not have found. Then they let us know the top choice really wants you to do an "interview" so after the visit if we liked it, you schedule an interview immediately. My kid did, did the interview the next week over the Summer and is attending that school. But I wouldn't have know just how important that interview/expressing interest is to getting admission. o it's the little things that help Make the process easier.
But our CC told me I could do 95% of her job, as I demonstrated (did it all with my first kid). But My kid was much more receptive to hearing about schools from the CC than from me, and listening to suggestions of small things to do. So it made my life easier and less stressful. A nd I figure if I'm willing to pay $90K/year for college, the least I can do is pay $1K/year in HS (or 4K total) to assist

I would not pay $20K+---not worth it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to see a grass root movement of applicants using the additional information section to note that they didn't use a private counselor

How can you ensure the students wont lie about using a college counselor? They lie about ECs, race and everything in between..

There is no way to track it. Also, it's not a fair question. Given that Private school kids get the equivalent of what I hired (a $4K for 4 full years of college counseling, all in), IMO most Private school kids should have to check that box.
But there would need to be a different box for people spending $10-20K, and 20K+

I think it's an assumption based on your zip code of what level of CC you likely have

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly we need a new checkbox on the Common App: Did you work with a college counselor other than the one at your school on this application?

And then what? Colleges have no interest in removing these students from the applicant pool. There’s a host of reasons people use counselors: maybe parents are from abroad and find our system confusing. Many a kid is first gen and getting free counseling from a CBO. Maybe a kid has learning differences and searching for a special college that fits well. Maybe students are looking for merit and a counselor is advising them on list building?

Using a counselor isn’t problematic. But using someone who writes your essay & creates a false profile is. Big difference

Yup! A good CC (by my definition) helps you over the 4 years (if needed) to create a list of courses to be ready for college (someone first gen may not have parents who understand this fully), helps you know that you need some EC activities in HS and that it's good to find a few that you like and pursue them for all of HS (dont' just bounce from 1 activity to another every few months---they like to see 4 years of band/orch or 4 years of drama club or 4 years of a sport), encourage you to find volunteering that is meaningful and does more than just check a box, help you find a few EC activities to supplement your academic interests, help create a great list of potential colleges for your intended majors (they are highly skilled at this and will help you have a great list of ones you can afford as well as true Reaches, targets and safeties that your kid actually likes), help with test prep, and help with essay development (brainstorming, but the kid does 99% of the work, CC just guides and makes them think and revise). And most importantly, it saves your sanity senior year so you do NOT have to nag your kid to stay on schedule.

Yes, it's a privilege to be able to afford that. Yes, you can do most of it yourself. Aside from the essay writing, I can do the rest. But our CC helped find some hidden gems for my kid---ones I may not have found. Then they let us know the top choice really wants you to do an "interview" so after the visit if we liked it, you schedule an interview immediately. My kid did, did the interview the next week over the Summer and is attending that school. But I wouldn't have know just how important that interview/expressing interest is to getting admission. o it's the little things that help Make the process easier.
But our CC told me I could do 95% of her job, as I demonstrated (did it all with my first kid). But My kid was much more receptive to hearing about schools from the CC than from me, and listening to suggestions of small things to do. So it made my life easier and less stressful. A nd I figure if I'm willing to pay $90K/year for college, the least I can do is pay $1K/year in HS (or 4K total) to assist

I would not pay $20K+---not worth it

Agreed...but if you run Tiger Asset Management (I assume that guy probably used Crimson for their own kids which is why he is a major investor), earn easily $100MM+ per year and have a multi-billion NW, do you care if you pay $20k or $100k or $250k?