Fascinating article from the WSJ re the methods of an "elite" college counseling firm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

It's already happening. There are quite a few companies and organizations that have changed their recruiting in recent years. As someone above noted, the Conan O'Brians of today don't go to Harvard anymore. Talent goes elsewhere today. And companies have picked up on that. It's very common to complain about recent grads from the most elite schools.

Where does talent go today?

These data tables are pretty telling.

Undergrad to B School

Undergrad to Med School

Undergrad to Law School

Not sure how these tables are supposed to show that Harvard (#2 med school feeder, #3 law school feeder) is not where talented kids go anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crimson prefers public school students over private. Also, they prefer to work with international students.

Yes, because it's well known now that your chances of elite college admissions are better in an uncompetitive environment. It's easier to stand out in the school, grading is easier, etc.

Waterford!

Many.public schools have competitive environments, but they have fewer networked students. That is more likely what he is trying to avoid.

I think the telling part of the article is the way he sees these schools as if they are trying to reject as many students as possible and only interested in status. That is not our experience (we are public school family with 2 at Ivies and no coach). He makes it adversarial to justify all these hiding. And then he uses that branding to fuel his business.

Same poster. Not sure where that Waterford came from. Some kind of bizarre autocorrect I guess. Sorry for the weirdness

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

It's already happening. There are quite a few companies and organizations that have changed their recruiting in recent years. As someone above noted, the Conan O'Brians of today don't go to Harvard anymore. Talent goes elsewhere today. And companies have picked up on that. It's very common to complain about recent grads from the most elite schools.

Conan O'Brian was never talented.

His nine-figure net worth suggests otherwise.

LOL

[Anonymous]

Any student using a professional college counselor should be required to disclose this information on the app.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any student using a professional college counselor should be required to disclose this information on the app.

Yes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any student using a professional college counselor should be required to disclose this information on the app.

Yes!

Nope, because there are varying levels. We paid $4.5K for unlimited help for 4 years of HS (only used 1.5)

Some pay 10-20K. Others pay $100K+

Each one is very different.

I consider ours equivalent to what I hear students get at elite/top 3 HS in DCUMland. But it's still very different than hiring a 20-30K+ counselor.

Based on your zip code and HS, they likely have a good estimate of who uses what. As well, they also know when a kid is genuine and when it's a $50K+ counselor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any student using a professional college counselor should be required to disclose this information on the app.

Yes!

Nope, because there are varying levels. We paid $4.5K for unlimited help for 4 years of HS (only used 1.5)

Some pay 10-20K. Others pay $100K+

Each one is very different.

I consider ours equivalent to what I hear students get at elite/top 3 HS in DCUMland. But it's still very different than hiring a 20-30K+ counselor.

Based on your zip code and HS, they likely have a good estimate of who uses what. As well, they also know when a kid is genuine and when it's a $50K+ counselor

Aww. Tell yourself that.

These companies would not be in business and their results would not speak for themselves if that was in fact, true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any student using a professional college counselor should be required to disclose this information on the app.

Yes!

Nope, because there are varying levels. We paid $4.5K for unlimited help for 4 years of HS (only used 1.5)

Some pay 10-20K. Others pay $100K+

Each one is very different.

I consider ours equivalent to what I hear students get at elite/top 3 HS in DCUMland. But it's still very different than hiring a 20-30K+ counselor.

Based on your zip code and HS, they likely have a good estimate of who uses what. As well, they also know when a kid is genuine and when it's a $50K+ counselor

We live in a very wealthy zip code, yet our kids attend public school, and we have never hired a private college counselor. I don't want my kids penalized because the adcoms might think we did hire someone. It should definitely be required to disclose this information and in fact, the private counselor should have to sign something as well. Otherwise, this claim that all "wealthy" families pay for private counseling is totally unfair. Adcoms should know exactly who is paying to "package" their application and who is actually authentic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any student using a professional college counselor should be required to disclose this information on the app.

Yes!

Nope, because there are varying levels. We paid $4.5K for unlimited help for 4 years of HS (only used 1.5)

Some pay 10-20K. Others pay $100K+

Each one is very different.

I consider ours equivalent to what I hear students get at elite/top 3 HS in DCUMland. But it's still very different than hiring a 20-30K+ counselor.

Based on your zip code and HS, they likely have a good estimate of who uses what. As well, they also know when a kid is genuine and when it's a $50K+ counselor

We live in a very wealthy zip code, yet our kids attend public school, and we have never hired a private college counselor. I don't want my kids penalized because the adcoms might think we did hire someone. It should definitely be required to disclose this information and in fact, the private counselor should have to sign something as well. Otherwise, this claim that all "wealthy" families pay for private counseling is totally unfair. Adcoms should know exactly who is paying to "package" their application and who is actually authentic.

Any independent counselor worth their weight in salt will encourage the student to ensure that everything within their application file is legitimate. We worked with an independent counselor who didn't try to "package" our daughter, but rather advised on the items she should focus on and devote time toward, and ways she could go about increasing her chances of admission at the types of schools/programs she was interested in applying to. And the cost was nothing compared to most of the numbers being thrown around on this thread.

Like most things, the options and quality vary considerably in the private counseling space, but just because it exists, it doesn't mean that all private counselors are inherently bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting to me how openly cynical the founder of Crimson is. I suppose it’s capitalism at work, but turning a kid into a luxury good to be purchased does feel icky to me, personally. And a bit sad.

I know. That was the worst thing about the article.

The founder seemed like a really motivated bright guy and all he's doing with his talent is groom rich kids to get into Ivies with maybe a small pro bono angle along the way.

It's sad to think about how structured these kids' lives must be. I spent a lot of my youth reading about anything and everything I was interested in. This process turns kids into mini-adults before they are done growing.

I presume he owns probably 30% or more of a company with a $550MM valuation (article said that was the valuation of last funding round).

The fact that he has made a lot of money on paper does not mean he is contributing much value to society.

Are the counseling jobs adding valuable productivity to the economy? How many new jobs?

Has he invented anything patentable?

Is he applying his talent for public policy and education to change lives on a scale that impacts the broader society?

Seems to me like he's running a big 50/50 lottery for a chance to get a prestige undergrad degree. With a side of tutoring and life coaching.

You can make the same claims about 95% of commercial enterprises. His company is satisfying a market demand and providing jobs.

He has set up 26 offices in 21 countries, acquired five counseling businesses that he remade to implement his strategy and built an accredited online high school, which now has 2,000 students. The company employs 850 full-time staff, and has another 3,000 part-time tutors.

Too many government/NPO/academia folks on DCUM. I know you find capitalism distasteful.

PP. I don't find capitalism distasteful. I find certain industries distasteful/wasteful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting to me how openly cynical the founder of Crimson is. I suppose it’s capitalism at work, but turning a kid into a luxury good to be purchased does feel icky to me, personally. And a bit sad.

I know. That was the worst thing about the article.

The founder seemed like a really motivated bright guy and all he's doing with his talent is groom rich kids to get into Ivies with maybe a small pro bono angle along the way.

It's sad to think about how structured these kids' lives must be. I spent a lot of my youth reading about anything and everything I was interested in. This process turns kids into mini-adults before they are done growing.

I presume he owns probably 30% or more of a company with a $550MM valuation (article said that was the valuation of last funding round).

The fact that he has made a lot of money on paper does not mean he is contributing much value to society.

Are the counseling jobs adding valuable productivity to the economy? How many new jobs?

Has he invented anything patentable?

Is he applying his talent for public policy and education to change lives on a scale that impacts the broader society?

Seems to me like he's running a big 50/50 lottery for a chance to get a prestige undergrad degree. With a side of tutoring and life coaching.

You can make the same claims about 95% of commercial enterprises. His company is satisfying a market demand and providing jobs.

He has set up 26 offices in 21 countries, acquired five counseling businesses that he remade to implement his strategy and built an accredited online high school, which now has 2,000 students. The company employs 850 full-time staff, and has another 3,000 part-time tutors.

Too many government/NPO/academia folks on DCUM. I know you find capitalism distasteful.

PP. I don't find capitalism distasteful. I find certain industries distasteful/wasteful.

I bet you find a large percentage of industries distasteful/wasteful…fast food, processed food, tobacco, maybe alcohol, payday loans, social media…the list is probably extensive.

In the scheme of things, a company that takes money only from wealthy people such as this kid’s company, is probably less distasteful than most that prey on people with less means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know that college admissions ask if you're a first generation student. Do they also ask about things like whether you get tutoring or college counseling? If not, seems like they should.

When I went to college, no college admin or prof gave a sh*t about this. So glad that first gen kids now have more supports and are seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any student using a professional college counselor should be required to disclose this information on the app.

Yes!

Nope, because there are varying levels. We paid $4.5K for unlimited help for 4 years of HS (only used 1.5)

Some pay 10-20K. Others pay $100K+

Each one is very different.

I consider ours equivalent to what I hear students get at elite/top 3 HS in DCUMland. But it's still very different than hiring a 20-30K+ counselor.

Based on your zip code and HS, they likely have a good estimate of who uses what. As well, they also know when a kid is genuine and when it's a $50K+ counselor

Not to mention there are very bright lower income children enrolled in CBO programs that get them access to top counseling, coaching, essay writing, sat tutoring.
Pretty wild stuff. It’s happening at all sides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any student using a professional college counselor should be required to disclose this information on the app.

Yes!

Nope, because there are varying levels. We paid $4.5K for unlimited help for 4 years of HS (only used 1.5)

Some pay 10-20K. Others pay $100K+

Each one is very different.

I consider ours equivalent to what I hear students get at elite/top 3 HS in DCUMland. But it's still very different than hiring a 20-30K+ counselor.

Based on your zip code and HS, they likely have a good estimate of who uses what. As well, they also know when a kid is genuine and when it's a $50K+ counselor

Not to mention there are very bright lower income children enrolled in CBO programs that get them access to top counseling, coaching, essay writing, sat tutoring.
Pretty wild stuff. It’s happening at all sides.

Yes, there are some great college access programs, but they are often pressed for money, trying to get their students the best support on a very low budget. It's not a fair comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting to me how openly cynical the founder of Crimson is. I suppose it’s capitalism at work, but turning a kid into a luxury good to be purchased does feel icky to me, personally. And a bit sad.

I know. That was the worst thing about the article.

The founder seemed like a really motivated bright guy and all he's doing with his talent is groom rich kids to get into Ivies with maybe a small pro bono angle along the way.

It's sad to think about how structured these kids' lives must be. I spent a lot of my youth reading about anything and everything I was interested in. This process turns kids into mini-adults before they are done growing.

I presume he owns probably 30% or more of a company with a $550MM valuation (article said that was the valuation of last funding round).

The fact that he has made a lot of money on paper does not mean he is contributing much value to society.

Are the counseling jobs adding valuable productivity to the economy? How many new jobs?

Has he invented anything patentable?

Is he applying his talent for public policy and education to change lives on a scale that impacts the broader society?

Seems to me like he's running a big 50/50 lottery for a chance to get a prestige undergrad degree. With a side of tutoring and life coaching.

You can make the same claims about 95% of commercial enterprises. His company is satisfying a market demand and providing jobs.

He has set up 26 offices in 21 countries, acquired five counseling businesses that he remade to implement his strategy and built an accredited online high school, which now has 2,000 students. The company employs 850 full-time staff, and has another 3,000 part-time tutors.

Too many government/NPO/academia folks on DCUM. I know you find capitalism distasteful.

PP. I don't find capitalism distasteful. I find certain industries distasteful/wasteful.

I bet you find a large percentage of industries distasteful/wasteful…fast food, processed food, tobacco, maybe alcohol, payday loans, social media…the list is probably extensive.

In the scheme of things, a company that takes money only from wealthy people such as this kid’s company, is probably less distasteful than most that prey on people with less means.

Dp. This guy sacrificed his whole youth to build a company that has other young people sacrifice their youth to attain the goal of attending one of a set of select colleges. Presumably to earn professional degrees where they then sacrifice their twenties to work in unforgiving industries like big law or consulting. For what? To be rich but never have attended a party in college? Wtf is that? You get one life, this is how they spend it? Unreal. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.