Fascinating article from the WSJ re the methods of an "elite" college counseling firm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting to me how openly cynical the founder of Crimson is. I suppose it’s capitalism at work, but turning a kid into a luxury good to be purchased does feel icky to me, personally. And a bit sad.

I know. That was the worst thing about the article.

The founder seemed like a really motivated bright guy and all he's doing with his talent is groom rich kids to get into Ivies with maybe a small pro bono angle along the way.

It's sad to think about how structured these kids' lives must be. I spent a lot of my youth reading about anything and everything I was interested in. This process turns kids into mini-adults before they are done growing.

I presume he owns probably 30% or more of a company with a $550MM valuation (article said that was the valuation of last funding round).

The fact that he has made a lot of money on paper does not mean he is contributing much value to society.

Are the counseling jobs adding valuable productivity to the economy? How many new jobs?

Has he invented anything patentable?

Is he applying his talent for public policy and education to change lives on a scale that impacts the broader society?

Seems to me like he's running a big 50/50 lottery for a chance to get a prestige undergrad degree. With a side of tutoring and life coaching.

You can make the same claims about 95% of commercial enterprises. His company is satisfying a market demand and providing jobs.

He has set up 26 offices in 21 countries, acquired five counseling businesses that he remade to implement his strategy and built an accredited online high school, which now has 2,000 students. The company employs 850 full-time staff, and has another 3,000 part-time tutors.

Too many government/NPO/academia folks on DCUM. I know you find capitalism distasteful.

PP. I don't find capitalism distasteful. I find certain industries distasteful/wasteful.

I bet you find a large percentage of industries distasteful/wasteful…fast food, processed food, tobacco, maybe alcohol, payday loans, social media…the list is probably extensive.

In the scheme of things, a company that takes money only from wealthy people such as this kid’s company, is probably less distasteful than most that prey on people with less means.

Dp. This guy sacrificed his whole youth to build a company that has other young people sacrifice their youth to attain the goal of attending one of a set of select colleges. Presumably to earn professional degrees where they then sacrifice their twenties to work in unforgiving industries like big law or consulting. For what? To be rich but never have attended a party in college? Wtf is that? You get one life, this is how they spend it? Unreal. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

Meanwhile, the kids could achieve most of this success without having to be this way, if only their parents would provide guidance and perspective instead of six figure college consultants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any student using a professional college counselor should be required to disclose this information on the app.

Yes!

Nope, because there are varying levels. We paid $4.5K for unlimited help for 4 years of HS (only used 1.5)

Some pay 10-20K. Others pay $100K+

Each one is very different.

I consider ours equivalent to what I hear students get at elite/top 3 HS in DCUMland. But it's still very different than hiring a 20-30K+ counselor.

Based on your zip code and HS, they likely have a good estimate of who uses what. As well, they also know when a kid is genuine and when it's a $50K+ counselor

Not to mention there are very bright lower income children enrolled in CBO programs that get them access to top counseling, coaching, essay writing, sat tutoring.
Pretty wild stuff. It’s happening at all sides.

Yes, there are some great college access programs, but they are often pressed for money, trying to get their students the best support on a very low budget. It's not a fair comparison.

Many of these kids have phenomenal results. I’m not by any means saying it’s the same as being the kid of a CEO. But if you get tapped into the right program they are well funded and have a lot of resources, expert volunteers. It’s amazing how coaching makes a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

No it doesn't. Harvard has never taken the best an the brightest. They used to take anyone who showed up and passed an entrance exam, then they took any boy who was moderately literate and went to the right prep school. Anyone remember when they took this loser:

The reasons that I have for wishing to go to Harvard are several. I feel that Harvard can give me a better background and a better liberal education than any other university. I have always wanted to go there, as I have felt that it is not just another college, but is a university with something definite to offer. Then too, I would like to go to the same college as my father. To be a "Harvard man" is an enviable distinction, and one that I sincerely hope I shall attain.

April 23, 1935
John F. Kennedy

Harvard has taken the best and brightest for at least 50 years. It hasn't taken exclusively the best and brightest. It often selected students based on wealth.

But without the best and brightest wanting to go there, it loses a lot of its appeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

It's already happening. There are quite a few companies and organizations that have changed their recruiting in recent years. As someone above noted, the Conan O'Brians of today don't go to Harvard anymore. Talent goes elsewhere today. And companies have picked up on that. It's very common to complain about recent grads from the most elite schools.

The top schools used to provide a fairly consistently high quality of recruit.
Nobody ever got fired for hiring someone from Yale.
Now they expect you to kick the tires.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any student using a professional college counselor should be required to disclose this information on the app.

Yes!

Nope, because there are varying levels. We paid $4.5K for unlimited help for 4 years of HS (only used 1.5)

Some pay 10-20K. Others pay $100K+

Each one is very different.

I consider ours equivalent to what I hear students get at elite/top 3 HS in DCUMland. But it's still very different than hiring a 20-30K+ counselor.

Based on your zip code and HS, they likely have a good estimate of who uses what. As well, they also know when a kid is genuine and when it's a $50K+ counselor

We live in a very wealthy zip code, yet our kids attend public school, and we have never hired a private college counselor. I don't want my kids penalized because the adcoms might think we did hire someone. It should definitely be required to disclose this information and in fact, the private counselor should have to sign something as well. Otherwise, this claim that all "wealthy" families pay for private counseling is totally unfair. Adcoms should know exactly who is paying to "package" their application and who is actually authentic.

They claim to be able to tell the authentic applicants from the contrived ones.
They claim to be able to tell true passion from resume boosters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting to me how openly cynical the founder of Crimson is. I suppose it’s capitalism at work, but turning a kid into a luxury good to be purchased does feel icky to me, personally. And a bit sad.

I know. That was the worst thing about the article.

The founder seemed like a really motivated bright guy and all he's doing with his talent is groom rich kids to get into Ivies with maybe a small pro bono angle along the way.

It's sad to think about how structured these kids' lives must be. I spent a lot of my youth reading about anything and everything I was interested in. This process turns kids into mini-adults before they are done growing.

I presume he owns probably 30% or more of a company with a $550MM valuation (article said that was the valuation of last funding round).

The fact that he has made a lot of money on paper does not mean he is contributing much value to society.

Are the counseling jobs adding valuable productivity to the economy? How many new jobs?

Has he invented anything patentable?

Is he applying his talent for public policy and education to change lives on a scale that impacts the broader society?

Seems to me like he's running a big 50/50 lottery for a chance to get a prestige undergrad degree. With a side of tutoring and life coaching.

You can make the same claims about 95% of commercial enterprises. His company is satisfying a market demand and providing jobs.

He has set up 26 offices in 21 countries, acquired five counseling businesses that he remade to implement his strategy and built an accredited online high school, which now has 2,000 students. The company employs 850 full-time staff, and has another 3,000 part-time tutors.

Too many government/NPO/academia folks on DCUM. I know you find capitalism distasteful.

PP. I don't find capitalism distasteful. I find certain industries distasteful/wasteful.

You mean like banking, the law, management consulting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

It's already happening. There are quite a few companies and organizations that have changed their recruiting in recent years. As someone above noted, the Conan O'Brians of today don't go to Harvard anymore. Talent goes elsewhere today. And companies have picked up on that. It's very common to complain about recent grads from the most elite schools.

The top schools used to provide a fairly consistently high quality of recruit.
Nobody ever got fired for hiring someone from Yale.
Now they expect you to kick the tires.

We just search their social media for questionable posts… esp those supporting SJP.

After all, we need to remember who our clients are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's actually staggering that 23% of Harvard students used a private consulting firm. Once you take out FGLI, athletes, URMs, rural students, and other people who have hooks, then it's likely that a near-majority of unhooked applicants used one of these services.

I would imagine that many of the athletes are using consulting firms, and that the organizations that help FGLI students might count too.

But good job presenting your child as the victim.

[Anonymous]

Colleges are complicit in this. It takes 2 play the game.


https://www.foxnews.com/us/mastermind-varsity-blues-college-admission-scandal-rick-singer-breaks-silence-first-interview

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

It's already happening. There are quite a few companies and organizations that have changed their recruiting in recent years. As someone above noted, the Conan O'Brians of today don't go to Harvard anymore. Talent goes elsewhere today. And companies have picked up on that. It's very common to complain about recent grads from the most elite schools.

The top schools used to provide a fairly consistently high quality of recruit.
Nobody ever got fired for hiring someone from Yale.
Now they expect you to kick the tires.

We just search their social media for questionable posts… esp those supporting SJP.

After all, we need to remember who our clients are.

What wrong with people who support Sarah Jessica Parker?

[Anonymous]

I feel like students should have to disclose if they used such services.

[Anonymous]

I never get the point of the JFK essay. The guy did, in fact, turn out to be a totally consequential person. Maybe Harvard knew what they were doing? Maybe they looked holistically, even then

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like students should have to disclose if they used such services.

Why not also make students disclose if they took SAT prep courses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like students should have to disclose if they used such services.

Why not also make students disclose if they took SAT prep courses?

Some kids’ parents spend $750k on their k-12 education too…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

It's already happening. There are quite a few companies and organizations that have changed their recruiting in recent years. As someone above noted, the Conan O'Brians of today don't go to Harvard anymore. Talent goes elsewhere today. And companies have picked up on that. It's very common to complain about recent grads from the most elite schools.

The top schools used to provide a fairly consistently high quality of recruit.
Nobody ever got fired for hiring someone from Yale.
Now they expect you to kick the tires.

We just search their social media for questionable posts… esp those supporting SJP.

After all, we need to remember who our clients are.

What wrong with people who support Sarah Jessica Parker?

lol

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