Toxic Masculinity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks everyone for chiming in. A thought that came to mind is, how do raise girls to interrupt toxic masculinity?

I think a good first step would be to focus the responsibility back on men instead of putting it on "girls". I mean, come on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would define it as men who are insecure about their own masculinity so they overcompensate by acting in what they feel is a stereotypical masculine way bullying men they feel are inferior and demeaning and not treating women as equals. This has nothing to do with how men fall on a spectrum of typical "manly" jobs, behavior or style preferences.

And this is something that fathers and older brothers pass down to their sons and that boys copy. I see my DD’s elementary school-aged male classmates picking up on language and attitudes from older boys, which clearly comes from even older boys and their parents. The constant need for men to compare themselves to each other and then try to rise up in the pecking order is a distinctly male thing. Women compare but then try to change themselves to reflect who they want to be like. Men compare and then try to kill/go faster than/beat/outearn/outspend whoever they’re comparing themselves to.

The boys in DD’s class can’t even walk down the hallway without making it into a competition, trash talking, announcing the results, and then insulting whoever didn’t win. Not being able to go through a single moment of the day without worrying about your competition is at the root toxic masculinity. The non-toxic men I know are either naturally at the very top of the pecking order or have the maturity and quiet confidence to decide that they don’t want to play the game and have sidestepped it to do things on their own terms. They’re few and far between.

Everyone else is engaged in a d—k measuring contest.

[Anonymous]

Teach your daughters to be strong and independent , not people pleasers.

Don’t encourage them to “lure” men, or value their appearance over other assets that they possess. It is essential that they have good self esteem, and a sense of self. They need not fuss over hair, nails or outfits any more than your sons do. All your kids should be happy and active, and encouraged to pursue an education that will allow them support themselves financially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teach your daughters to be strong and independent , not people pleasers.

Don’t encourage them to “lure” men, or value their appearance over other assets that they possess. It is essential that they have good self esteem, and a sense of self. They need not fuss over hair, nails or outfits any more than your sons do. All your kids should be happy and active, and encouraged to pursue an education that will allow them support themselves financially.

Note that this won’t prevent men from being toxic, but it will reduce the likelihood that your daughters fall victim to a toxic man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teach your daughters to be strong and independent , not people pleasers.

Don’t encourage them to “lure” men, or value their appearance over other assets that they possess. It is essential that they have good self esteem, and a sense of self. They need not fuss over hair, nails or outfits any more than your sons do. All your kids should be happy and active, and encouraged to pursue an education that will allow them support themselves financially.

So, the solution to toxic masculinity is to teach daughters how to behave? Okaaay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks everyone for chiming in. A thought that came to mind is, how do raise girls to interrupt toxic masculinity?

I’m repeating what other PPs have said, but want to emphasize that brining girls into it is itself is promoting toxic masculinity. The idea that men aren’t responsible for their behavior and women should be the ones to fix it is at the root of the problem.

I’ve seen this in schools and in co-ed activities starting at an early age. Whether it’s in preschool, elementary, or middle school, male misbehavior that impacts females is made the girls’ problem. The girls are supposed to report it. The girls are supposed to “separate themselves”. The girls are supposed to asset themselves. The girls are supposed to engage in mediation or restorative justice. From the age of 2-3, boys are taught by others that girls and adults will bend over backwards to accommodate boys’ misbehavior and “social-emotional growth”. No wonder many develop a sense of impunity and privilege.

[Anonymous]

*assert, not asset. So mad I can’t spell!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would define it as men who are insecure about their own masculinity so they overcompensate by acting in what they feel is a stereotypical masculine way bullying men they feel are inferior and demeaning and not treating women as equals. This has nothing to do with how men fall on a spectrum of typical "manly" jobs, behavior or style preferences.

And this is something that fathers and older brothers pass down to their sons and that boys copy. I see my DD’s elementary school-aged male classmates picking up on language and attitudes from older boys, which clearly comes from even older boys and their parents. The constant need for men to compare themselves to each other and then try to rise up in the pecking order is a distinctly male thing. Women compare but then try to change themselves to reflect who they want to be like. Men compare and then try to kill/go faster than/beat/outearn/outspend whoever they’re comparing themselves to.

The boys in DD’s class can’t even walk down the hallway without making it into a competition, trash talking, announcing the results, and then insulting whoever didn’t win. Not being able to go through a single moment of the day without worrying about your competition is at the root toxic masculinity. The non-toxic men I know are either naturally at the very top of the pecking order or have the maturity and quiet confidence to decide that they don’t want to play the game and have sidestepped it to do things on their own terms. They’re few and far between.

Everyone else is engaged in a d—k measuring contest.

This isn’t toxic masculinity. Boys actually aren’t girls. I know that’s shocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks everyone for chiming in. A thought that came to mind is, how do raise girls to interrupt toxic masculinity?

I’m repeating what other PPs have said, but want to emphasize that brining girls into it is itself is promoting toxic masculinity. The idea that men aren’t responsible for their behavior and women should be the ones to fix it is at the root of the problem.

I’ve seen this in schools and in co-ed activities starting at an early age. Whether it’s in preschool, elementary, or middle school, male misbehavior that impacts females is made the girls’ problem. The girls are supposed to report it. The girls are supposed to “separate themselves”. The girls are supposed to asset themselves. The girls are supposed to engage in mediation or restorative justice. From the age of 2-3, boys are taught by others that girls and adults will bend over backwards to accommodate boys’ misbehavior and “social-emotional growth”. No wonder many develop a sense of impunity and privilege.

This is completely untrue. Nothing about this post is accurate at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it is real. There is evidence everywhere.

Besides raising boys to respect females as equal, to have and exy the range of feelings (including fear and tears), to seek consent before touching another else’s body for your own gratification , they need time role models who live this way.

That means dads who also care for children and women who contribute to society outside the home, and contribute to their household financially.

Please explain how the rather misogynist sentiment expressed in bold helps dissuade toxic masculinity.

When children see only a woman not working and doing only domestic duties, it teaches them that is what women do. Versus equality in duties and care equal to their male spouse.

I’m a true believer that sahm contribute to male entitlement.

Even if we accepted your premise in true in 2024, when boys interact with all sorts of men and women outside their home in a professional capacity (e.g. doctors, teachers, retail employees, etc.) , what exactly is the issue with thinking that women perform domestic labor?

You learn how to be a man or woman, how to be a husband or wife, from your family of origin.

This is true. But your job (or lack of job) does not define you. Any decent family of origin will teach/model good values, regardless of mommy and daddy’s earned income.

My real issue with your point (or at least your point as I read it, perhaps I misunderstood) is that you view domestic labor and child rearing as “less than”. And it also seems to be the only job for which you draw a distinction: if larlo sees that mommy is a housewife he’ll think all women are housewives. But if mommy is a teacher, will larlo think all women are teachers? If dad is a cop, does he think all men are cops? If mom is a hardworking housewife and dad is a tobacco lobbyist, do you really think that mom is not contributing to society but dad is? (Assuming you are the original poster who made that claim.)

Is it not possible for two things to be treated as equal (meaning having equal rights and equal value) without them being exactly the same?

[Anonymous]

This thread is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teach your daughters to be strong and independent , not people pleasers.

Don’t encourage them to “lure” men, or value their appearance over other assets that they possess. It is essential that they have good self esteem, and a sense of self. They need not fuss over hair, nails or outfits any more than your sons do. All your kids should be happy and active, and encouraged to pursue an education that will allow them support themselves financially.

So, the solution to toxic masculinity is to teach daughters how to behave? Okaaay.

DP.

I’m not sure that’s what PP meant.

Rather, I think she means teaching our daughters to spot and avoid men who have any masculine toxicity.

But we first have to help our daughters recognize the red-flags, so they can weed out the toxic men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teach your daughters to be strong and independent , not people pleasers.

Don’t encourage them to “lure” men, or value their appearance over other assets that they possess. It is essential that they have good self esteem, and a sense of self. They need not fuss over hair, nails or outfits any more than your sons do. All your kids should be happy and active, and encouraged to pursue an education that will allow them support themselves financially.

So, the solution to toxic masculinity is to teach daughters how to behave? Okaaay.

DP.

I’m not sure that’s what PP meant.

Rather, I think she means teaching our daughters to spot and avoid men who have any masculine toxicity.

But we first have to help our daughters recognize the red-flags, so they can weed out the toxic men.

And that is up to her dad. He teaches by example. If you didn’t do a good job picking your mate, it is unlikely she will too.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Just wanted to say that I did not bring up girls because it’s their responsibility to solve the problem. I brought up girls because they experiencing the hardest consequences of the problem. So I was curious of ways girls and women could protect themselves or mitigate the damage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks everyone for chiming in. A thought that came to mind is, how do raise girls to interrupt toxic masculinity?

I’m repeating what other PPs have said, but want to emphasize that brining girls into it is itself is promoting toxic masculinity. The idea that men aren’t responsible for their behavior and women should be the ones to fix it is at the root of the problem.

I’ve seen this in schools and in co-ed activities starting at an early age. Whether it’s in preschool, elementary, or middle school, male misbehavior that impacts females is made the girls’ problem. The girls are supposed to report it. The girls are supposed to “separate themselves”. The girls are supposed to asset themselves. The girls are supposed to engage in mediation or restorative justice. From the age of 2-3, boys are taught by others that girls and adults will bend over backwards to accommodate boys’ misbehavior and “social-emotional growth”. No wonder many develop a sense of impunity and privilege.

This is completely untrue. Nothing about this post is accurate at all.

Sorry that you find the reality of my experience so upsetting that you have to post a comment just to say it can’t possibly be true.

That’s one of the hurdles in addressing toxic masculinity and misogyny: people who are so uncomfortable with the fact that it exists and might exist within their gender or the gender of their child that they have to run around in loud denial.

A more constructive response would be: “wow, I’ve never experienced this and it’s opened my eyes to other people’s experience and made me rethink my narrow existence”.