Anyone touring top schools and finding then all to be dumpy and unimpressive?

[Anonymous]

Picking a school based on thinking you'll be doing high level research as an undergrad is a mistake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a rising senior and have been doing the rounds of many top 25 schools (universities and colleges). We started with safety schools last year and then junior year grades came back so this summer we've been touring some top schools. My kid is trying to figure out an ED.
We have a rising junior as well so we have a couple of kids with us.

The more of these schools we tour, the less impressed I am. They're sort of all a bit falling apart, poorly maintained, with pretty odd students (tour guides, summer students and especially touring students alike--don't jump all over for for saying this--being brutally honest), little sense of community, same-old, same-old stuff about study-abroad, etc. Many have very large class sizes, etc.

I feel like we're (kid and parent alike) are supposed to love these schools and want to pay $90K for them and my kids can't find one they really like. I very, very, very much feel like we're being sold a product that we're supposed to want to buy because of prestige and name but when we see the product up close it doesn't look great and I feel like a sheep lining up to say "yes sir. let me put my kid through mental/emotional twister for a 5% chance of being admitted to your school and then I will gladly pay you $90K for the honor. Yes sir." It just feels... gross. Maybe not gross but yucky. My kids are like, "well I didn't really like this or that here but I could probably make it work." They too feel the pressure to LIKE these places. The Almighty XYZ or ABC school! It's supposed to be their dream!

Please don't jump on me. I know it's summer and we're not seeing the universities at their best but ugh. They're all kind of disappointing. I can't be the only one who feels this way? (I'm not going to name university/college names because then this post will turn into a giant thread about whatever school(s) I name.

To the OP it appears this is the heart of the matter: they didn’t like the schools, they are settling because of reputation. Please realize there are students who genuinely light up when they tour these places, and if they are honest with themselves, not to all places they tour. I could always tell which schools my kids loved midway through the tour but I never said anything. It is no problem if your kid has not found a fit: keep looking. Unless they toured all top25, I do not think you can write off all elite/prestigious schools because they didn’t mesh with some of them. Mine are at different ivies: one of them hated the school the other picked. They both had many they loved in the T25 and many that were “mid” or even immediately removed from the list.
Part of the wording of your post reads as though you may be dismissing them just because of cost. I hate to tell you, but almost all privates well past the t25 have the same price tag, as do LACs. If price itself is turning you off, look at the schools that provide big merit. These schools often have bells and whistles and they also cost less. Just don’t shame those of us whose children chose the ivy types and actually did light up with delight when they toured. All choices are valid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quite frankly I don't care if the buildings are beautiful or up to date. These schools aren't ranked highly because they won a beauty contest. I care about the intellectual rigor, student culture, research opportunities, etc. If different factors are important to OP and OP's kid, that's perfectly fine! It's better if people really prioritize what is important to them, rather than just looking at rankings and piling up to compete for the same schools regardless of their interests or priorities.

I don’t know why, but I just can’t agree with this. If you want to sell a brand of this beautiful groomed environment for students to be with the best, you should be a…beautiful groomed environment. These are status symbol colleges and pretending they aren’t is very strange. I also disagree with OP— most colleges are exceptionally beautiful and are well planned environments. If Harvard was dumpy looking (beyond Harvard Yard, the campus is pretty gorgeous), it would be an embarrassment for Harvard’s brand.

I have just the opposite opinion of Harvard...love the old part. Rest is a mish-mash of different artitecture. Very surprised. MIT has their older, traditional campus and their downtown looking area of metal and glass

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Picking a school based on thinking you'll be doing high level research as an undergrad is a mistake.

True. But many schools do provide research with a professor for every student who wants it. We were impressed with the first school that said it; by the dozenth time it was old news and we realized getting to do research as an undergraduate is not for only 1 out of 3 premeds as it was in my day. My own undergrad school was the most braggy about it, adding that not only will all who want if find a lab, funding exists for about half who apply for it. They made it clear they were keeping up with top-endowed ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Picking a school based on thinking you'll be doing high level research as an undergrad is a mistake.

True. But many schools do provide research with a professor for every student who wants it. We were impressed with the first school that said it; by the dozenth time it was old news and we realized getting to do research as an undergraduate is not for only 1 out of 3 premeds as it was in my day. My own undergrad school was the most braggy about it, adding that not only will all who want if find a lab, funding exists for about half who apply for it. They made it clear they were keeping up with top-endowed ivies.

Research is everywhere now. You really don't need to go to a fancy school anymore to do "cutting-edge" research if you want it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a rising senior and have been doing the rounds of many top 25 schools (universities and colleges). We started with safety schools last year and then junior year grades came back so this summer we've been touring some top schools. My kid is trying to figure out an ED.
We have a rising junior as well so we have a couple of kids with us.

The more of these schools we tour, the less impressed I am. They're sort of all a bit falling apart, poorly maintained, with pretty odd students (tour guides, summer students and especially touring students alike--don't jump all over for for saying this--being brutally honest), little sense of community, same-old, same-old stuff about study-abroad, etc. Many have very large class sizes, etc.

I feel like we're (kid and parent alike) are supposed to love these schools and want to pay $90K for them and my kids can't find one they really like. I very, very, very much feel like we're being sold a product that we're supposed to want to buy because of prestige and name but when we see the product up close it doesn't look great and I feel like a sheep lining up to say "yes sir. let me put my kid through mental/emotional twister for a 5% chance of being admitted to your school and then I will gladly pay you $90K for the honor. Yes sir." It just feels... gross. Maybe not gross but yucky. My kids are like, "well I didn't really like this or that here but I could probably make it work." They too feel the pressure to LIKE these places. The Almighty XYZ or ABC school! It's supposed to be their dream!

Please don't jump on me. I know it's summer and we're not seeing the universities at their best but ugh. They're all kind of disappointing. I can't be the only one who feels this way? (I'm not going to name university/college names because then this post will turn into a giant thread about whatever school(s) I name.

Yes. All this. My kid and his high achiever friends went thru the whole application process and had varying degrees of success. BUT. Here’s what I’m noticing- many of the kids/families of really really smart kids are opting to do their state flagship school over T-whatever pricey private. Maybe because of this? Anyway, good luck, OP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I sort of liken it to how the truly wealthy often drive old cars and have expensive but possibly tattered interiors, generational wealth that whispers.

This is sort of true.

But also these colleges are old. 100-200 year old buildings are a pain to renovate - historic details, no off-the-shelf parts, lead paint, asbestos, mold, etc. And buildings from the 1950s-1980s are often just ugly - brutalist concrete, etc. They look bad because they always did only now they are also out of style.

Academic personalities tend to be more concerned about the life of the mind, not the decor. The only time I've heard faculty complaints was about a 1950s building where the offices in the highrise part were poorly cooled in sunny weather. They ended up in a fancy new building with tall doors that are difficult for short women to operate. Oh, the symbolism!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand people who tour schools in the summer. You aren't getting to see them other than the buildings. It's a waste.

I don’t understand tours. Just go on campus and enter buildings after people. Ask people on the quad questions. The tour guide is just a student doing their job and giving you lies about the school.

Tours are a good idea because then the admissions office knows you were there and thus you have demonstrated interest.

OP. None of the top schools track demonstrated interest.
We're touring schools in the summer because we and kid(s) have the time. The tours are packed so we're clearly not the only ones.
We don't view top25 schools as safety schools. Read my post. We toured other safety schools last year. These are non safety.

I do think it's good to keep in mind is that you are paying for the education and not the facilities. But are you really? Do you actually have contact with world renowned faculty as an undergrad? And does it matter whether the guy teaching your organic chemistry class is also doing tertiary research in organic chemistry (vs someone who is just really competent at teaching organic chemistry to college sophomores)? I would say no.

It feels like you are paying for the name on your diploma and for being adjacent to greatness.

To be completely honest, I don't think one really needs a Nobel Prize winner to teach them supply and demand. My best professor in undergrad was a self-professed "B+ economist," yet still had an incredible impact on my academic journey as a whole. If you want to work closely with the movers and shakers, get good grades and go to grad school; it'll be a far better opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Also, since so many kids want to do CS and adjacent majors, the research angle shouldn't matter nearly as much. So much of the advancement and research is now in the private sector. Most of the top minds are too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Np.

We’ve been touring as well. Have found most Ivies and SLACs to be the most run down.

Duke, Northwestern, WashU and Vandy and Emory all looked beautiful.

Davidson and Richmond are beautiful SLACs. Go South!

[Anonymous]

After touring many schools for kids' visits, found Princeton and Duke to be the most beautiful hands down. Both feel like you'd be living in a castle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quite frankly I don't care if the buildings are beautiful or up to date. These schools aren't ranked highly because they won a beauty contest. I care about the intellectual rigor, student culture, research opportunities, etc. If different factors are important to OP and OP's kid, that's perfectly fine! It's better if people really prioritize what is important to them, rather than just looking at rankings and piling up to compete for the same schools regardless of their interests or priorities.

I don’t know why, but I just can’t agree with this. If you want to sell a brand of this beautiful groomed environment for students to be with the best, you should be a…beautiful groomed environment. These are status symbol colleges and pretending they aren’t is very strange. I also disagree with OP— most colleges are exceptionally beautiful and are well planned environments. If Harvard was dumpy looking (beyond Harvard Yard, the campus is pretty gorgeous), it would be an embarrassment for Harvard’s brand.

I have just the opposite opinion of Harvard...love the old part. Rest is a mish-mash of different artitecture. Very surprised. MIT has their older, traditional campus and their downtown looking area of metal and glass

MIT has multiple labs that are just refurbished warehouses that look pitiful. I'll take the soulless modern over buildings that are potentially hazardous and have poor construction needs for modern desires.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Np.

We’ve been touring as well. Have found most Ivies and SLACs to be the most run down.

Duke, Northwestern, WashU and Vandy and Emory all looked beautiful.

We had similar observations. The non-Ivies tended to be more interesting. Vanderbilt, Rice, Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke, and Chicago all seemed more impressive than the Ivies we visited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Np.

We’ve been touring as well. Have found most Ivies and SLACs to be the most run down.

Duke, Northwestern, WashU and Vandy and Emory all looked beautiful.

We had similar observations. The non-Ivies tended to be more interesting. Vanderbilt, Rice, Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke, and Chicago all seemed more impressive than the Ivies we visited.

It all depends on the person, I found Vandy’s campus not particularly impressive. Kids go there for Nashville.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a rising senior and have been doing the rounds of many top 25 schools (universities and colleges). We started with safety schools last year and then junior year grades came back so this summer we've been touring some top schools. My kid is trying to figure out an ED.
We have a rising junior as well so we have a couple of kids with us.

The more of these schools we tour, the less impressed I am.

YES. After touring (and getting accepted) at top tier schools my kid chose our flagship state school. We were blown away in their newly admitted student presentation. They had so much to offer and had very qualified presenters. The other famous and schools were just like "feel happy we chose you, you are a very lucky few" but didn't really tell us what they were offering in terms of education.
Good luck!