Anyone touring top schools and finding then all to be dumpy and unimpressive?

[Anonymous]

Stanford is not dumpy. Not sure what schools you’re touring. Not sure why you are going on tours in the summer either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand people who tour schools in the summer. You aren't getting to see them other than the buildings. It's a waste.

I don’t understand tours. Just go on campus and enter buildings after people. Ask people on the quad questions. The tour guide is just a student doing their job and giving you lies about the school.

Tours are a good idea because then the admissions office knows you were there and thus you have demonstrated interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We toured almost every T15(all but stanford and Caltech) and found them all great, and they all emphasized small classes. All my kids attend a different one of these schools and find them intellectually stimulating with less than 1/4 of their classes over 40, including stem. We never toured any school outside of T25 that was not W&M or VT or W&L, so we did not see the big schools with the pretty pools and fancy dorms we have seen online. We were looking for academics and found the only ugly/dumpy one to be MIT, yet loved the intellectual vibe of our quirky tour guide. similar-vibe tour guides were WM Hopkins and Brown, but did not select the final schools based on love of tour. People do not pick T15s for beauty, they pick them for academics: faculty, peers, smallish classes. To each his own.

Students definitely expect glamor from T15 campuses. Most also have massive classes, all it takes is talking to someone who isn’t a tour guide

My kids are at different ivy/T15 private. They each have friends at others. There are no “massive” classes. The biggest is around 200, none of mine have had more than one 200 person class, even for premed. They have all had the majority of classes less than 30, some less than 10 people. William&Mary is the same that is why it is the “public ivy”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We toured almost every T15(all but stanford and Caltech) and found them all great, and they all emphasized small classes. All my kids attend a different one of these schools and find them intellectually stimulating with less than 1/4 of their classes over 40, including stem. We never toured any school outside of T25 that was not W&M or VT or W&L, so we did not see the big schools with the pretty pools and fancy dorms we have seen online. We were looking for academics and found the only ugly/dumpy one to be MIT, yet loved the intellectual vibe of our quirky tour guide. similar-vibe tour guides were WM Hopkins and Brown, but did not select the final schools based on love of tour. People do not pick T15s for beauty, they pick them for academics: faculty, peers, smallish classes. To each his own.

Students definitely expect glamor from T15 campuses. Most also have massive classes, all it takes is talking to someone who isn’t a tour guide

My kids are at different ivy/T15 private. They each have friends at others. There are no “massive” classes. The biggest is around 200, none of mine have had more than one 200 person class, even for premed. They have all had the majority of classes less than 30, some less than 10 people. William&Mary is the same that is why it is the “public ivy”.

200 is a massive class for $90k. 30 is a massive class for $90k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You ARE being sold a product. They know they don't have to work too hard to get the best. Maybe find some schools down a tier or two. Your kids should focus on schools that they know they can get into and not go chasing the impossible.

We only toured schools during the school year because the one we saw in the summer was so dead.

+100
The prettier and newer the facade of school, the less likely it is T25

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand people who tour schools in the summer. You aren't getting to see them other than the buildings. It's a waste.

I don’t understand tours. Just go on campus and enter buildings after people. Ask people on the quad questions. The tour guide is just a student doing their job and giving you lies about the school.

Tours are a good idea because then the admissions office knows you were there and thus you have demonstrated interest.

Except this doesn't matter for the bulk of top colleges at all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You ARE being sold a product. They know they don't have to work too hard to get the best. Maybe find some schools down a tier or two. Your kids should focus on schools that they know they can get into and not go chasing the impossible.

We only toured schools during the school year because the one we saw in the summer was so dead.

+100
The prettier and newer the facade of school, the less likely it is T25

100% this! The dorms at schools that need to attract students are much better than anything at a t20

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We toured almost every T15(all but stanford and Caltech) and found them all great, and they all emphasized small classes. All my kids attend a different one of these schools and find them intellectually stimulating with less than 1/4 of their classes over 40, including stem. We never toured any school outside of T25 that was not W&M or VT or W&L, so we did not see the big schools with the pretty pools and fancy dorms we have seen online. We were looking for academics and found the only ugly/dumpy one to be MIT, yet loved the intellectual vibe of our quirky tour guide. similar-vibe tour guides were WM Hopkins and Brown, but did not select the final schools based on love of tour. People do not pick T15s for beauty, they pick them for academics: faculty, peers, smallish classes. To each his own.

Students definitely expect glamor from T15 campuses. Most also have massive classes, all it takes is talking to someone who isn’t a tour guide

My kids are at different ivy/T15 private. They each have friends at others. There are no “massive” classes. The biggest is around 200, none of mine have had more than one 200 person class, even for premed. They have all had the majority of classes less than 30, some less than 10 people. William&Mary is the same that is why it is the “public ivy”.

200 is a massive class for $90k. 30 is a massive class for $90k.

Where do you expect your kid to go and not have 30-200? Or is 30-200 “worth it” when you have a discounted price? And how do you know who is paying $90! Lots of us get need based aid and are not paying anything close to that. One of the best professors I ever had taught 300 person classes : the lectures were so well regarded students who were not registered would audit just to be there. Class size hs little to do with quality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand people who tour schools in the summer. You aren't getting to see them other than the buildings. It's a waste.

I don’t understand tours. Just go on campus and enter buildings after people. Ask people on the quad questions. The tour guide is just a student doing their job and giving you lies about the school.

Tours are a good idea because then the admissions office knows you were there and thus you have demonstrated interest.

OP. None of the top schools track demonstrated interest.
We're touring schools in the summer because we and kid(s) have the time. The tours are packed so we're clearly not the only ones.
We don't view top25 schools as safety schools. Read my post. We toured other safety schools last year. These are non safety.

I do think it's good to keep in mind is that you are paying for the education and not the facilities. But are you really? Do you actually have contact with world renowned faculty as an undergrad? And does it matter whether the guy teaching your organic chemistry class is also doing tertiary research in organic chemistry (vs someone who is just really competent at teaching organic chemistry to college sophomores)? I would say no.

It feels like you are paying for the name on your diploma and for being adjacent to greatness.

[Anonymous]

Are you a private school parent?

I could see how having that pre college could lead to more expectations about college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We toured almost every T15(all but stanford and Caltech) and found them all great, and they all emphasized small classes. All my kids attend a different one of these schools and find them intellectually stimulating with less than 1/4 of their classes over 40, including stem. We never toured any school outside of T25 that was not W&M or VT or W&L, so we did not see the big schools with the pretty pools and fancy dorms we have seen online. We were looking for academics and found the only ugly/dumpy one to be MIT, yet loved the intellectual vibe of our quirky tour guide. similar-vibe tour guides were WM Hopkins and Brown, but did not select the final schools based on love of tour. People do not pick T15s for beauty, they pick them for academics: faculty, peers, smallish classes. To each his own.

Students definitely expect glamor from T15 campuses. Most also have massive classes, all it takes is talking to someone who isn’t a tour guide

My kids are at different ivy/T15 private. They each have friends at others. There are no “massive” classes. The biggest is around 200, none of mine have had more than one 200 person class, even for premed. They have all had the majority of classes less than 30, some less than 10 people. William&Mary is the same that is why it is the “public ivy”.

200 is a massive class for $90k. 30 is a massive class for $90k.

Where do you expect your kid to go and not have 30-200? Or is 30-200 “worth it” when you have a discounted price? And how do you know who is paying $90! Lots of us get need based aid and are not paying anything close to that. One of the best professors I ever had taught 300 person classes : the lectures were so well regarded students who were not registered would audit just to be there. Class size hs little to do with quality.

Class size has a lot to do with quality, are you joking? Would you spend $40k on a private high school with 200 person lecture halls? And before I get accused of “handholding,” no it’s about actually getting an education that you can’t flub and hide behind 200 people. That professor you’re talking about is a showman, not a lecturer

[Anonymous]

These schools have plenty of people who are more than happy to deal with a "dumpy" campus at almost any price! You are focused on the wrong things.

There are some beautiful elite college campuses if you really care a lot about that (Stanford and Swarthmore come to mind right away) but I agree most are not going to wow you just touring buildings.

[Anonymous]

Your attitude is likely rubbing off on your kid. Be aware of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These schools have plenty of people who are more than happy to deal with a "dumpy" campus at almost any price! You are focused on the wrong things.

There are some beautiful elite college campuses if you really care a lot about that (Stanford and Swarthmore come to mind right away) but I agree most are not going to wow you just touring buildings.

No one is doubting that. But are they just sheep and brand whores? It feels like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand people who tour schools in the summer. You aren't getting to see them other than the buildings. It's a waste.

I don’t understand tours. Just go on campus and enter buildings after people. Ask people on the quad questions. The tour guide is just a student doing their job and giving you lies about the school.

Tours are a good idea because then the admissions office knows you were there and thus you have demonstrated interest.

OP. None of the top schools track demonstrated interest.
We're touring schools in the summer because we and kid(s) have the time. The tours are packed so we're clearly not the only ones.
We don't view top25 schools as safety schools. Read my post. We toured other safety schools last year. These are non safety.

I do think it's good to keep in mind is that you are paying for the education and not the facilities. But are you really? Do you actually have contact with world renowned faculty as an undergrad? And does it matter whether the guy teaching your organic chemistry class is also doing tertiary research in organic chemistry (vs someone who is just really competent at teaching organic chemistry to college sophomores)? I would say no.

It feels like you are paying for the name on your diploma and for being adjacent to greatness.

The job placement and grad school placement matter too. The social capital is huge in the long-term as well.
No one thinks CS 101 or Orgo is going to be so different at one place versus another. There are definitely higher level course and research differences but you are right that is more important for grad school.