Has anyone here on a normal income successfully FIREd?

[Anonymous]

A woman who can save $1m by 33 is likely highly educated and socially skilled. She can likely attract a man who can afford for her to be a SAHM permanently, without the FIRE lifestyle tradeoffs.

If she does marry a sad-sack FIRE unemployed man, he will stick out like a sore thumb in her family and friend group, which is likely full of people who have found good jobs that they don't mind working, and have way more disposable income, and do something other than sit around the house. She'll be giving up what feels to her like a normal lifestyle, and being left out of family and friend get-togethers because OP won't want to pay for the travel. Everyone will judge their cheap parenting as harmful to the kids. Basically she'll have to endure a lot of social approbation and isolation. And for what? She could just as easily retire early by marrying a richer guy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:And regarding college, UMD in-state tuition is $11,000 per year, or $44,000 total per child. Sorry, but with one or two kids, that’s not going to derail anything. I would have them live at home for free unless they wanted to get a job to pay rent outside the house.

HAHAHAHA! Do you know how much it costs to feed my 18-year-old college student? It is not "free" to house him, either, or help him set up a wardrobe of adult clothes (on sale, from reasonably priced stores). He wouldn't be able to walk to UMD, or even ride his bike. So there's either hours and hours of public transportation (not "free," since he's spending lots of time) or a car, with all of its expenses (including parking at UMD).

I agree that you've chosen a very strict lifestyle, and yes, possibly you can find a potential spouse who is also an adherent. But I don't think you understand the toll that that lifestyle might have on kids who haven't chosen it for themselves, especially since it is a choice you are making.

I also thought the whole idea of wage slavery seems really immature. If you hate your job? Find a different one. Enter a new field. Find something to do with your time that brings you joy and gives back to the world. If you're lucky, you have a long life ahead of you. It seems like such a waste to be miserable and stingy for the first half, and then be shiftless and poor for the second half.

"How will you buy food and a used car for your kid?" How much do you really think property taxes and groceries cost in a LCOL area?? I said I'm planning on a $3M portfolio that throws off $90K per year, on top of a paid-off house (i.e., no mortgage payment) - you don't think I can afford a used car when my kid goes to college?

As mentioned, even the biggest wild card - healthcare - should be reasonable. I currently pay around $200/month for an individual high-deductible plan. A similar family plan will obviously be more but won't break the bank. Even if I had to meet the $10K deductible every year--I basically never have to go to the doctor now, apart from routine physicals--I can comfortably pay for that out of my $90K budget. Something *really big* would have to arise for healthcare to be a real problem--and as I said, I'm not willing to throw away my life on the chance that some miniscule-probability event occurs, especially since I can always adjust as needed (start a small business, etc.).

And to the poster who said earning $50K in a business was very difficult, I'm currently earning $150K so something would be really wrong if I cannot figure out a way to earn a third of that--a mere $25/hour--when I have all the time in the world to try various ideas and no urgency related to bills.

It's not a miniscule probability event! If you have a wife and children, that's four bodies in which something can go wrong. It's more likely than not than you'll have a seriously costly event or issue for someone in your family in the next 20 years.

PS orthodontist

And it's bizarre that you think working a job is throwing your life away. Just, like, find a job you enjoy. Lots of people manage to do that. If you can't contemplate that ever being possible for you, that's super sad and indicates a mental health problem.

No, jobs suck – sorry, I’m not budging on that one. As far as jobs go, mine is decent enough. I am now 100% work-from-home, which has dramatically increased my enjoyment of the job. But it’s still boring nonsense. No one growing up dreams of Zoom calls and corporate networking BS – they settle for it because there are far worse things than getting paid $150,000 to send a few emails a day.

I want to hike and play the guitar and spend time with my loved ones.

I love my job. Sad for you!

[Anonymous]

Your negative attitude will bring all the girls to your yard!

[Anonymous]

Please hike, play the guitar, and spend time with your loved ones now. There is time in the day for work and for the things you like to do. Don’t wait to live your life. There is no magical perfect future. You are working to build a society and a place for your children to live. It’s admirable that you’ve saved a lot. But FIRE means sponging off the work of other adults in this country which I find uninspiring. Your stock market gains come because of the other workers. You have an opportunity to contribute to the world. Maybe very meaningfully, maybe less, but you can find something that isn’t soul crushing, that gives you purpose, that helps others.

For context, I had $1M around 30 IIRC, married a teacher with $0. It worked out with childcare well so we never paid for much in the way of daycare. We have $7M at 50 but I still want to contribute. I like helping to mentor the next generation, to pass along my skills and knowledge. Now that we’ll be empty nesters in the fall, I’m starting a business, too, with my extra time. I also play an instrument, work out daily, and volunteer about 3 hours a week. Sitting home playing guitar would get old real fast for me since I’m smart and driven.

My advice is to take some time to rearrange your life to find some joy and meaning NOW rather than at some undefined future point. I get it, you’ve created this vision and are working tirelessly towards it, but I’m not sure it’s a valid vision. Have you dated? How has that gone?

Be a part of the world. We need you.

[Anonymous]

I was basically the woman you are looking for. At 29 I met my then 34 year old husband.

At 29, I was very frugal, even though I hadn’t heard of FIRE I was sort of living that lifestyle by default. I had paid off my pretty significant student loans, had no debt, had several hundred thousand in retirement accounts, had bought a townhouse that I was paying extra on the mortgage.

My husband when I met him had no debt, and several hundred thousand in retirement savings.

Almost 20 years later, we could retire today if $60k year was all we wanted to live on for the rest of our lives, but it isn’t. But the following things have kept us from being FIRE.
1) Three wonderful kids that cost much more than you expect. Three kids that we want to sent to college. College isn’t the only issue either, kids are just expensive. Even the basics like housing, food and clothing are more expensive for my growth spurt having, adult size wearing 13 year old son than for me. But we want them to have at least some of the extras in life where the costs add up very quickly. Even inexpensive activities add up quickly for a family of five.
2) childcare when they are young is hugely expensive and we hadn’t reached fire yet but didn’t want to delay children and possibly not be able to have them due to fertility.
3) my husband had an accident that kept him out of work for over a year and required significant medical costs.
4) two other significant medical issues across the family that have required long term medical costs and some treatment not covered by insurance.
5) space. The townhouse that I was paying extra on pre husband and kids might have been technically big enough for a family of five, but we were busting at the seams of that place. We bought a bigger house and this time I worried about school districts, sidewalks, nearby playgrounds, a neighborhood pool, etc so it was a much more expensive house.
6)I lost my job during Covid and it took me almost a year to find the next job.
7) one of my in laws required significant end of life care not all of which was covered by insurance that we made the decision to pay for.

I’m so glad I met and married my husband and had our kids. I love our life. My early frugality has meant that we have the resources to chose flexible jobs that allow us to be present for our kids, weather medical issues without worrying about money, help family, afford college for our kids, and retire in our 50s. It’s not FIRE but it’s a fabulous fulfilling life on our terms.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand the desire to retire at 40. By the time you’re around 40, you will have probably gotten used to working in your industry and your job should be easier to manage. You likely have a month or more of vacation and it’s easy to get the full 401k match. You’re also making say, $150k a year. You really want to turn down $150k to earn $0? This seems so extreme and unnecessary.

It’s also much easier to FIRE in a bull market. Do you really want to sell securities to live off during a down market?

One thing to consider is what you’ll do with your time. I’d enjoy skiing, traveling and tending to my house but these things all cost money. If I quit my job I’d be very limited as to what I can do.

[Anonymous]

OP should find a woman within the FIRE movement. They’d have common values, goals, and interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP should find a woman within the FIRE movement. They’d have common values, goals, and interests.

Yes, absolutely. There are totally women out there for you. BUT, you need to have the same desired lifestyle. Some FIRE people are all about homesteading, some have other focii.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out what kind of childhood you want your kids to have. HCOL or LCOL, and what are you willing to deny them for the sake of FIRE? You also need to understand that if one of your children has significant special needs, it will be really expensive and any notion of FIRE will vanish immediately. Instead it will be work until 70 to pay for therapies and adult care.

What is your FIRE number assuming your kids will need a 3br home, health insurance, and college? Are you willing to deny them all sports and activities? Are you willing to make them go in-state or to a much less good college just for FIRE? It can be hard to find a woman who's on board with that.

I would really question your assumption that there's no rush to have kids. Plenty of women don't want an older husband or don't want their kids to have an older dad, and that's what you're on track to be if you don't get serious about dating very soon. Yes late-30s men can still date, marry, and have kids, but it becomes more and more of a liability. Especially if they don't earn that much. You don't earn enough to make up for it.

Well, you didn’t answer the question, but you do raise some good points. My FIRE number is just for me, not for a family—my number is $2 million plus a paid-off $500,000 condo. That would provide $60,000 per year (3% withdrawal), which is fine for me.

Obviously, that would not be enough to support a family, But I assume that my future wife will probably have another million dollars and some home equity (after all, given how much I value savings, I don’t see how I could end up with a spouse that has a fundamentally different view in that regard).

So with $3 million and a paid-off house, I figure that’s plenty for a LCOL area. And I’m not opposed to working in the future if needed – I just don’t want it to be a necessity.

Lastly, I guess I just disagree with your assessment that, in a few years, I’ll be too old to date. I’ve never heard of a 33-year-old woman that wouldn’t date a 39-year-old man. In fact, that seems to be more common than not in my experience.

1) Bwahahhaa to the idea that your wife will have a million dollars. By what age are you expecting this? From a woman younger than you? Who takes time out of the workforce to bear children, and who do you think will be the primary parent with the more flexible job? It doesn't sound like you're intending to be that person.

2) I think plenty of 33 year old women would consider being 39 a liability. It means you'll be an old dad, less energetic, and be an old man before she is ready. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's not a positive thing for you on the dating market. You're already limiting yourself to the tiny pool of women interested in FIRE parenting. And of those women you only want one with significant savings. And now you're cutting it down further with your off-putting age. Your dating pool is more like a teaspoon. You need to open your eyes to the cost of raising kids, how tiring it is, and how being a decent parent makes it hard to maximize earnings.

Ideally, I FIRE at 38 and then meet a woman who’s 33. No kids yet so she’s been able to save that whole time—it’s reasonable for her to have $1 million by then. I’m 33 now and have saved more than that on a normal salary—and could have substantially more had paying off my condo not been such a priority for me.

My dude, if you are looking for 33 year old woman who has $1m saved at that time, who is willing to marry a 38 year old and live out her days on a tight budget in a LCOL area, you are looking for a unicorn. Why on earth would she be interested in that life with you? If you only MEET her at 38, you're 39 at engagement, 40 at marriage, and 41 at first baby, best-case scenario. I know you don't want this to be true, but women who are 33 and want kids tend to look for age-peers, not Old Dads.

A 33 year old woman trying to date is too old for age-peers men. She has already faded and her biological clock is ticking. Men her age are looking for women in the 25-29 range.
Unless she looks like a model, she is more likely to end with a 40 year old man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sincerely not trying to be rude but a woman who has 1m at 33 is going to view your plan as unambitious and unattractive 99% of the time. I think you're overstating how easy this will be.

Why would this be the case for the majority of women? I’m a *man* who has over $1 million at age 33 (plus a condo), and I would never view a woman in a similar situation, who wanted to retire early, in a negative light—especially not as “unambitious,” given the amount of ambition and effort needed to get into that position in the first place.

Sounds like an unambitious life to me. Actually it sounds like someone with mono-focus on one thing - hoarding money at a young age. And has no interests - at least none that are mentioned - outside of that. Also has no desire to show kids the world or give them lots of experiences, because they'll have to be so miserly.

I guess I don't really understand the point of this? If you make a TON of money young, and it gives you the opportunity to pursue the things you're deeply interested in - I get that. If you're hoarding money in order to - stop working and do what? - that seems incredibly claustrophobic. It's hard to imagine someone signing up for that. Just keep working, then you can have a much nicer life, with this great cushion you've already secured.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out what kind of childhood you want your kids to have. HCOL or LCOL, and what are you willing to deny them for the sake of FIRE? You also need to understand that if one of your children has significant special needs, it will be really expensive and any notion of FIRE will vanish immediately. Instead it will be work until 70 to pay for therapies and adult care.

What is your FIRE number assuming your kids will need a 3br home, health insurance, and college? Are you willing to deny them all sports and activities? Are you willing to make them go in-state or to a much less good college just for FIRE? It can be hard to find a woman who's on board with that.

I would really question your assumption that there's no rush to have kids. Plenty of women don't want an older husband or don't want their kids to have an older dad, and that's what you're on track to be if you don't get serious about dating very soon. Yes late-30s men can still date, marry, and have kids, but it becomes more and more of a liability. Especially if they don't earn that much. You don't earn enough to make up for it.

Well, you didn’t answer the question, but you do raise some good points. My FIRE number is just for me, not for a family—my number is $2 million plus a paid-off $500,000 condo. That would provide $60,000 per year (3% withdrawal), which is fine for me.

Obviously, that would not be enough to support a family, But I assume that my future wife will probably have another million dollars and some home equity (after all, given how much I value savings, I don’t see how I could end up with a spouse that has a fundamentally different view in that regard).

So with $3 million and a paid-off house, I figure that’s plenty for a LCOL area. And I’m not opposed to working in the future if needed – I just don’t want it to be a necessity.

Lastly, I guess I just disagree with your assessment that, in a few years, I’ll be too old to date. I’ve never heard of a 33-year-old woman that wouldn’t date a 39-year-old man. In fact, that seems to be more common than not in my experience.

A 30 year old woman won't have $1,000,000 not even close. If she's 35+ like you, then you'll be paying roughly 60K in IVF costs per kid. Maybe only one, but still. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 40K per year in daycare, 150K per year for college...like I said, good luck!

I don’t foresee more than one or two kids, and I will definitely make sure that we pay in-state tuition for them, even if I have to go back to work to pay for that. However, I don’t buy into the DCUM notion that there’s any value whatsoever in those $80,000/year SLACs. If they want to go expensive colleges that are actually worth it (e.g., Harvard), they’re going to have to take out loans.

And there’s no daycare because we won’t be working – that’s the whole point.

Wait. Both of you not working. At age 41/35? And still paying for college (even in-state)? Show me the math.

Your demented stricture of $1m in savings at age 33 is ruling out a huge number of women. No doctors no PhDs. Nobody who's had any sort of significantly costly or work-impairing health problem. Who wants to FIRE-parent, meaning deny their kids various normal things, limited to 2 kids, with an older dad, in a LCOL area. Who has no family in need of support. And who actually likes you enough to do this. Can't you see you are looking for a unicorn?

Everyone is getting hung up on the $1 million savings at age 33. I do think that’s reasonable for someone with a professional job who values savings because, as I said, I have more than that saved at 33, while also having paid off a $500,000 condo and never having earned more than $150,000 per year (though I did live with my parents for several years and my expenses were zero during those years).

But even if she doesn’t have $1 million—for example, if she is significantly younger than 33 when we meet—once I have $2 million at age 38, it’s not that tough to add on another million assuming no major market crashes. I do 100% stocks, and we’d probably be able to add $100,000+ per year in contributions between the two of us. Assuming 10% growth with all stocks and $100,000 in new contributions per year, $2 million becomes $3 million in just three years—so even if she entered our marriage with zero savings, the plan is not that far off.

And regarding college, UMD in-state tuition is $11,000 per year, or $44,000 total per child. Sorry, but with one or two kids, that’s not going to derail anything. I would have them live at home for free unless they wanted to get a job to pay rent outside the house. “But what about summer camps?” Yes, we probably won’t be able to do a lot of those extras. I’m not a parent, so my thoughts on this could change, but I’m not a believer in the over-scheduled, activity-packed parenting style that is in vogue now. My life was much more laid-back as a child—I don’t think I suffered for it and would probably take a similar approach with my own kid(s). That’s actually kind of the whole point: there are always an endless number of things that you can spend money on and trade your life away to be able to pay for. I am actively choosing to live a simple life, which is totally doable on $3 million, even with a family.

Okay, not everyone is 100% subsidized by their Mommy and Daddy. So stop being so proud of "your" savings. Some people would view that level of enmeshment as a red flag about you, and wonder what your parents' expectations are for providing and financing their eldercare, and whether they'll be intrusive grandparents or think they can use money to control you. Women are cautious about this and no amount of money can compensate for difficult or enmeshed in-laws.

It's hilarious that you think summer camp is what makes children expensive. Why don't you look up the cost of health insurance when it's not employer-provided and think about that. It's not any one cost of kids, it's all the costs together. Tons of little things and it adds up. Saying no to everything-- no to activities they most love, no to their interests and aspirations, no to their social life, is a recipe for a lonely, stunted, and resentful teen. You can't bring back the social norms of your childhood. Times have changed, period. Also, LCOL areas tend to have bad schools so if you're hoping for a state flagship you may need to supplement academically and with quality activities.

It's also bizarre that you're assuming uncomplicated pregnancies and healthy children. You haven't acknowledged any of the comments about the cost of children having special needs. Are you in denial about this, or just don't understand it?

You say very little about time value of money in your calculations. It's hard to give you any feedback when it's unclear which year's dollars you're talking about and what inflation assumptions you're applying. If you think in-state tuition isn't going to be higher 25 years from now...

These are actually good points and the best counter-argument I've heard, unlike everyone else trying to convince me that $3M is not a lot of money. I will need to really make sure my wife shares my vision. To the other point, I guess I still don't see women rejecting me because I don't have a job--there's a big difference between not having a job because you're shiftless and not having a job because you have a couple of million dollars in the bank. Trust-fund douchebags with no jobs don't seem to have trouble getting women to sleep with them. But I guess since several women have said it here, I need to be aware that that is a possibility.

Trust fund millionaires are in a different situation. Someone with a $1 million trust fund would still have to work. (Source: I know people with $1 million trust funds.) That amount of money will take away a LOT of financial stress - but it does not set you up for life, especially with a family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:And regarding college, UMD in-state tuition is $11,000 per year, or $44,000 total per child. Sorry, but with one or two kids, that’s not going to derail anything. I would have them live at home for free unless they wanted to get a job to pay rent outside the house.

HAHAHAHA! Do you know how much it costs to feed my 18-year-old college student? It is not "free" to house him, either, or help him set up a wardrobe of adult clothes (on sale, from reasonably priced stores). He wouldn't be able to walk to UMD, or even ride his bike. So there's either hours and hours of public transportation (not "free," since he's spending lots of time) or a car, with all of its expenses (including parking at UMD).

I agree that you've chosen a very strict lifestyle, and yes, possibly you can find a potential spouse who is also an adherent. But I don't think you understand the toll that that lifestyle might have on kids who haven't chosen it for themselves, especially since it is a choice you are making.

I also thought the whole idea of wage slavery seems really immature. If you hate your job? Find a different one. Enter a new field. Find something to do with your time that brings you joy and gives back to the world. If you're lucky, you have a long life ahead of you. It seems like such a waste to be miserable and stingy for the first half, and then be shiftless and poor for the second half.

"How will you buy food and a used car for your kid?" How much do you really think property taxes and groceries cost in a LCOL area?? I said I'm planning on a $3M portfolio that throws off $90K per year, on top of a paid-off house (i.e., no mortgage payment) - you don't think I can afford a used car when my kid goes to college?

As mentioned, even the biggest wild card - healthcare - should be reasonable. I currently pay around $200/month for an individual high-deductible plan. A similar family plan will obviously be more but won't break the bank. Even if I had to meet the $10K deductible every year--I basically never have to go to the doctor now, apart from routine physicals--I can comfortably pay for that out of my $90K budget. Something *really big* would have to arise for healthcare to be a real problem--and as I said, I'm not willing to throw away my life on the chance that some miniscule-probability event occurs, especially since I can always adjust as needed (start a small business, etc.).

And to the poster who said earning $50K in a business was very difficult, I'm currently earning $150K so something would be really wrong if I cannot figure out a way to earn a third of that--a mere $25/hour--when I have all the time in the world to try various ideas and no urgency related to bills.

It's not a miniscule probability event! If you have a wife and children, that's four bodies in which something can go wrong. It's more likely than not than you'll have a seriously costly event or issue for someone in your family in the next 20 years.

PS orthodontist

And it's bizarre that you think working a job is throwing your life away. Just, like, find a job you enjoy. Lots of people manage to do that. If you can't contemplate that ever being possible for you, that's super sad and indicates a mental health problem.

No, jobs suck – sorry, I’m not budging on that one. As far as jobs go, mine is decent enough. I am now 100% work-from-home, which has dramatically increased my enjoyment of the job. But it’s still boring nonsense. No one growing up dreams of Zoom calls and corporate networking BS – they settle for it because there are far worse things than getting paid $150,000 to send a few emails a day.

I want to hike and play the guitar and spend time with my loved ones.

Yeah, that's more fun. Go get yourself a life where you can do that and have an income. My cousin bought some property in North Carolina and set it up as a wedding venue. He spends a bunch of time working on that - marketing, upkeep, whatever - and a bunch of time hiking and playing guitar. And acting like a 20 year old at age 60, but whatever - he really likes it! And it's not like I'm one to talk.

Getting yourself a very nice nest egg young does mean you're freed up to go pursue something you like better - a better life, a better place, whatever you want. It doesn't mean you never have to work again, in all likelihood - not if you want other people to share that life with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know there are a lot of high-income, ultra-wealthy people here – I am NOT referring to you. I know it’s relatively easy to achieve financial independence early if you have a seven-figure income or sold a business for eight figures.

I am interested in people with more normal incomes who have been able to achieve FIRE in this HCOL area—whether they think it was worth it and how they sustained their motivation for the 15+ years needed to achieve this. I am starting to get a little bit antsy and am looking for motivation (or demotivation, though that’s unlikely?) to see it through.

My personal situation is that I’m 33 years old and make around $150,000 per year. I likely have about five more years before I hit my FIRE number. This goal has been my driving force since college, and I lived at home for several years to save even more. While the goal of achieving financial independence at 38 is still awesome to me—“awesome” in the sense that inspires awe in me—I would like to be able to eventually focus more on my dating life. I am a guy, however, so no issues with needing to get married or have kids urgently.

Despite my personal situation, I would also be interested in hearing from married people who FIREd. The main thing I’m looking for is ideas from people with normal incomes because they understand the sacrifices that it takes to allocate limited resources to investing goals. Thanks.

My good friend retired at 38 for life. Was not much sacrifice at all.

He skipped college. Was part time NYC Sanitation at 17 switched to full time day he turned 18 which gave him 38 as retirement date with pension and medical for life.

He bought a beautiful Florida home around 23 with a 15 year mortgage. Rented it out 15 years so be mortgage free by retirement.

Invested most of paycheck in stocks then got engaged 37 to a hot 28 year old secretary who also never went to college but was in 401k since 18.

They retired him at 38 and her 28 to Florida had kids never worked again.

He also max his 457 for 20 years.

Skipping college is key

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was basically the woman you are looking for. At 29 I met my then 34 year old husband.

At 29, I was very frugal, even though I hadn’t heard of FIRE I was sort of living that lifestyle by default. I had paid off my pretty significant student loans, had no debt, had several hundred thousand in retirement accounts, had bought a townhouse that I was paying extra on the mortgage.

My husband when I met him had no debt, and several hundred thousand in retirement savings.

Almost 20 years later, we could retire today if $60k year was all we wanted to live on for the rest of our lives, but it isn’t. But the following things have kept us from being FIRE.
1) Three wonderful kids that cost much more than you expect. Three kids that we want to sent to college. College isn’t the only issue either, kids are just expensive. Even the basics like housing, food and clothing are more expensive for my growth spurt having, adult size wearing 13 year old son than for me. But we want them to have at least some of the extras in life where the costs add up very quickly. Even inexpensive activities add up quickly for a family of five.
2) childcare when they are young is hugely expensive and we hadn’t reached fire yet but didn’t want to delay children and possibly not be able to have them due to fertility.
3) my husband had an accident that kept him out of work for over a year and required significant medical costs.
4) two other significant medical issues across the family that have required long term medical costs and some treatment not covered by insurance.
5) space. The townhouse that I was paying extra on pre husband and kids might have been technically big enough for a family of five, but we were busting at the seams of that place. We bought a bigger house and this time I worried about school districts, sidewalks, nearby playgrounds, a neighborhood pool, etc so it was a much more expensive house.
6)I lost my job during Covid and it took me almost a year to find the next job.
7) one of my in laws required significant end of life care not all of which was covered by insurance that we made the decision to pay for.

I’m so glad I met and married my husband and had our kids. I love our life. My early frugality has meant that we have the resources to chose flexible jobs that allow us to be present for our kids, weather medical issues without worrying about money, help family, afford college for our kids, and retire in our 50s. It’s not FIRE but it’s a fabulous fulfilling life on our terms.

See, OP. Here's a woman of FIRE temperament! And who's telling it to you pretty gently, but here are the key points.

1) Met at 29 but already concerned about fertility. A 33-year old will be even more so.

2) Not willing to deprive the kids like you are.

3) Kids cost more than she thought.

4) Medical stuff comes up, a lot!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out what kind of childhood you want your kids to have. HCOL or LCOL, and what are you willing to deny them for the sake of FIRE? You also need to understand that if one of your children has significant special needs, it will be really expensive and any notion of FIRE will vanish immediately. Instead it will be work until 70 to pay for therapies and adult care.

What is your FIRE number assuming your kids will need a 3br home, health insurance, and college? Are you willing to deny them all sports and activities? Are you willing to make them go in-state or to a much less good college just for FIRE? It can be hard to find a woman who's on board with that.

I would really question your assumption that there's no rush to have kids. Plenty of women don't want an older husband or don't want their kids to have an older dad, and that's what you're on track to be if you don't get serious about dating very soon. Yes late-30s men can still date, marry, and have kids, but it becomes more and more of a liability. Especially if they don't earn that much. You don't earn enough to make up for it.

Well, you didn’t answer the question, but you do raise some good points. My FIRE number is just for me, not for a family—my number is $2 million plus a paid-off $500,000 condo. That would provide $60,000 per year (3% withdrawal), which is fine for me.

Obviously, that would not be enough to support a family, But I assume that my future wife will probably have another million dollars and some home equity (after all, given how much I value savings, I don’t see how I could end up with a spouse that has a fundamentally different view in that regard).

So with $3 million and a paid-off house, I figure that’s plenty for a LCOL area. And I’m not opposed to working in the future if needed – I just don’t want it to be a necessity.

Lastly, I guess I just disagree with your assessment that, in a few years, I’ll be too old to date. I’ve never heard of a 33-year-old woman that wouldn’t date a 39-year-old man. In fact, that seems to be more common than not in my experience.

This is really funny, especially for someone with no dating experience. Are you on FIRE Tinder or something? Do you really think it's reasonable to believe you will find and fall in love with another successful FIRE devotee as soon as you decide to switch your attention to matters of the heart? Should be a snap, it's not like in the real world people are saddled with student loan debt and have to move away from their parents' houses to find employment!