Has anyone here on a normal income successfully FIREd?

[Anonymous]

I know there are a lot of high-income, ultra-wealthy people here – I am NOT referring to you. I know it’s relatively easy to achieve financial independence early if you have a seven-figure income or sold a business for eight figures.

I am interested in people with more normal incomes who have been able to achieve FIRE in this HCOL area—whether they think it was worth it and how they sustained their motivation for the 15+ years needed to achieve this. I am starting to get a little bit antsy and am looking for motivation (or demotivation, though that’s unlikely?) to see it through.

My personal situation is that I’m 33 years old and make around $150,000 per year. I likely have about five more years before I hit my FIRE number. This goal has been my driving force since college, and I lived at home for several years to save even more. While the goal of achieving financial independence at 38 is still awesome to me—“awesome” in the sense that inspires awe in me—I would like to be able to eventually focus more on my dating life. I am a guy, however, so no issues with needing to get married or have kids urgently.

Despite my personal situation, I would also be interested in hearing from married people who FIREd. The main thing I’m looking for is ideas from people with normal incomes because they understand the sacrifices that it takes to allocate limited resources to investing goals. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

I don't think you'll find your answers here. You need to search FIRE people. There was one of the big early FIRE guys who FIRED young and then went back to work once he had kids, saying it wasn't sustainable with kids for them to have a reasonable life.

You need to seek those people out. And if you are already feeling like you can't do this at 33 then I would gently say this is about you and you're not accepting what it takes to become a married adult with kids.

[Anonymous]

You need to figure out what kind of childhood you want your kids to have. HCOL or LCOL, and what are you willing to deny them for the sake of FIRE? You also need to understand that if one of your children has significant special needs, it will be really expensive and any notion of FIRE will vanish immediately. Instead it will be work until 70 to pay for therapies and adult care.

What is your FIRE number assuming your kids will need a 3br home, health insurance, and college? Are you willing to deny them all sports and activities? Are you willing to make them go in-state or to a much less good college just for FIRE? It can be hard to find a woman who's on board with that.

I would really question your assumption that there's no rush to have kids. Plenty of women don't want an older husband or don't want their kids to have an older dad, and that's what you're on track to be if you don't get serious about dating very soon. Yes late-30s men can still date, marry, and have kids, but it becomes more and more of a liability. Especially if they don't earn that much. You don't earn enough to make up for it.

[Anonymous]

I think you need to front load your frugality. Go ultra frugal right now, but do recognize that being social and dating will cost a little bit of money. Women who want to marry and have kids and still be frugal enough to FIRE are very, very rare. Your time to save money without competing priorities or compromise is right now, so make the absolute most of it.

Bear in mind that when planning-oriented women look at you they're thinking how old you'll be after engagement, marriage, first baby, and second baby. When they see a 33 year old man, they see a man who will be at least 38 when the second child is born. So you're 38 to them. I know you are 33, but this is how women think about this.

[Anonymous]

If I were a single woman, I would not want to date a “retired” 35 yr old, I’d want someone working a decently paying job

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I were a single woman, I would not want to date a “retired” 35 yr old, I’d want someone working a decently paying job

This. A man hanging around the house or doing hobbies all day is going to be incredibly annoying. And most men make terrible SAHDs and homemakers.

I think it's FIRE or kids, but not both. With kids the best you can do is *maybe* coast FIRE when you're like 55, assuming all goes well with your and the kids' health.

The more human beings in the family, the greater the likelihood of a serious health problem or expensive condition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out what kind of childhood you want your kids to have. HCOL or LCOL, and what are you willing to deny them for the sake of FIRE? You also need to understand that if one of your children has significant special needs, it will be really expensive and any notion of FIRE will vanish immediately. Instead it will be work until 70 to pay for therapies and adult care.

What is your FIRE number assuming your kids will need a 3br home, health insurance, and college? Are you willing to deny them all sports and activities? Are you willing to make them go in-state or to a much less good college just for FIRE? It can be hard to find a woman who's on board with that.

I would really question your assumption that there's no rush to have kids. Plenty of women don't want an older husband or don't want their kids to have an older dad, and that's what you're on track to be if you don't get serious about dating very soon. Yes late-30s men can still date, marry, and have kids, but it becomes more and more of a liability. Especially if they don't earn that much. You don't earn enough to make up for it.

Well, you didn’t answer the question, but you do raise some good points. My FIRE number is just for me, not for a family—my number is $2 million plus a paid-off $500,000 condo. That would provide $60,000 per year (3% withdrawal), which is fine for me.

Obviously, that would not be enough to support a family, But I assume that my future wife will probably have another million dollars and some home equity (after all, given how much I value savings, I don’t see how I could end up with a spouse that has a fundamentally different view in that regard).

So with $3 million and a paid-off house, I figure that’s plenty for a LCOL area. And I’m not opposed to working in the future if needed – I just don’t want it to be a necessity.

Lastly, I guess I just disagree with your assessment that, in a few years, I’ll be too old to date. I’ve never heard of a 33-year-old woman that wouldn’t date a 39-year-old man. In fact, that seems to be more common than not in my experience.

[Anonymous]

married, FIREd, but decided to work at a low stress/low resposibility job that permits me to be the mom I wanted to be. It can be done OP and is very worthwhile. Stay strong!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out what kind of childhood you want your kids to have. HCOL or LCOL, and what are you willing to deny them for the sake of FIRE? You also need to understand that if one of your children has significant special needs, it will be really expensive and any notion of FIRE will vanish immediately. Instead it will be work until 70 to pay for therapies and adult care.

What is your FIRE number assuming your kids will need a 3br home, health insurance, and college? Are you willing to deny them all sports and activities? Are you willing to make them go in-state or to a much less good college just for FIRE? It can be hard to find a woman who's on board with that.

I would really question your assumption that there's no rush to have kids. Plenty of women don't want an older husband or don't want their kids to have an older dad, and that's what you're on track to be if you don't get serious about dating very soon. Yes late-30s men can still date, marry, and have kids, but it becomes more and more of a liability. Especially if they don't earn that much. You don't earn enough to make up for it.

Well, you didn’t answer the question, but you do raise some good points. My FIRE number is just for me, not for a family—my number is $2 million plus a paid-off $500,000 condo. That would provide $60,000 per year (3% withdrawal), which is fine for me.

Obviously, that would not be enough to support a family, But I assume that my future wife will probably have another million dollars and some home equity (after all, given how much I value savings, I don’t see how I could end up with a spouse that has a fundamentally different view in that regard).

So with $3 million and a paid-off house, I figure that’s plenty for a LCOL area. And I’m not opposed to working in the future if needed – I just don’t want it to be a necessity.

Lastly, I guess I just disagree with your assessment that, in a few years, I’ll be too old to date. I’ve never heard of a 33-year-old woman that wouldn’t date a 39-year-old man. In fact, that seems to be more common than not in my experience.

1) Bwahahhaa to the idea that your wife will have a million dollars. By what age are you expecting this? From a woman younger than you? Who takes time out of the workforce to bear children, and who do you think will be the primary parent with the more flexible job? It doesn't sound like you're intending to be that person.

2) I think plenty of 33 year old women would consider being 39 a liability. It means you'll be an old dad, less energetic, and be an old man before she is ready. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's not a positive thing for you on the dating market. You're already limiting yourself to the tiny pool of women interested in FIRE parenting. And of those women you only want one with significant savings. And now you're cutting it down further with your off-putting age. Your dating pool is more like a teaspoon. You need to open your eyes to the cost of raising kids, how tiring it is, and how being a decent parent makes it hard to maximize earnings.

[Anonymous]

How much do you think college will cost by the time your kids attend, OP?

Are you only going to date women who want only one child? And are you willing to wreck a marriage over it if they change their mind?

Your FIRE $60K is not really enough to keep up with the cost of medical care in your old age btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out what kind of childhood you want your kids to have. HCOL or LCOL, and what are you willing to deny them for the sake of FIRE? You also need to understand that if one of your children has significant special needs, it will be really expensive and any notion of FIRE will vanish immediately. Instead it will be work until 70 to pay for therapies and adult care.

What is your FIRE number assuming your kids will need a 3br home, health insurance, and college? Are you willing to deny them all sports and activities? Are you willing to make them go in-state or to a much less good college just for FIRE? It can be hard to find a woman who's on board with that.

I would really question your assumption that there's no rush to have kids. Plenty of women don't want an older husband or don't want their kids to have an older dad, and that's what you're on track to be if you don't get serious about dating very soon. Yes late-30s men can still date, marry, and have kids, but it becomes more and more of a liability. Especially if they don't earn that much. You don't earn enough to make up for it.

Well, you didn’t answer the question, but you do raise some good points. My FIRE number is just for me, not for a family—my number is $2 million plus a paid-off $500,000 condo. That would provide $60,000 per year (3% withdrawal), which is fine for me.

Obviously, that would not be enough to support a family, But I assume that my future wife will probably have another million dollars and some home equity (after all, given how much I value savings, I don’t see how I could end up with a spouse that has a fundamentally different view in that regard).

So with $3 million and a paid-off house, I figure that’s plenty for a LCOL area. And I’m not opposed to working in the future if needed – I just don’t want it to be a necessity.

Lastly, I guess I just disagree with your assessment that, in a few years, I’ll be too old to date. I’ve never heard of a 33-year-old woman that wouldn’t date a 39-year-old man. In fact, that seems to be more common than not in my experience.

I'm confused how, on your income and with all the costs of raising children, you're going to get to $3 million and a paid off house before normal retirement age

[Anonymous]

You won't be able to FIRE with having kids in your 40s. You absolutely can FIRE without kids

[Anonymous]

It's easy to double $50k. It's even easier to get 50% out of $100k. Learn to do that instead of taking out 3% every year.
Try not to come across as if you don't like to work or want to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out what kind of childhood you want your kids to have. HCOL or LCOL, and what are you willing to deny them for the sake of FIRE? You also need to understand that if one of your children has significant special needs, it will be really expensive and any notion of FIRE will vanish immediately. Instead it will be work until 70 to pay for therapies and adult care.

What is your FIRE number assuming your kids will need a 3br home, health insurance, and college? Are you willing to deny them all sports and activities? Are you willing to make them go in-state or to a much less good college just for FIRE? It can be hard to find a woman who's on board with that.

I would really question your assumption that there's no rush to have kids. Plenty of women don't want an older husband or don't want their kids to have an older dad, and that's what you're on track to be if you don't get serious about dating very soon. Yes late-30s men can still date, marry, and have kids, but it becomes more and more of a liability. Especially if they don't earn that much. You don't earn enough to make up for it.

Well, you didn’t answer the question, but you do raise some good points. My FIRE number is just for me, not for a family—my number is $2 million plus a paid-off $500,000 condo. That would provide $60,000 per year (3% withdrawal), which is fine for me.

Obviously, that would not be enough to support a family, But I assume that my future wife will probably have another million dollars and some home equity (after all, given how much I value savings, I don’t see how I could end up with a spouse that has a fundamentally different view in that regard).

So with $3 million and a paid-off house, I figure that’s plenty for a LCOL area. And I’m not opposed to working in the future if needed – I just don’t want it to be a necessity.

Lastly, I guess I just disagree with your assessment that, in a few years, I’ll be too old to date. I’ve never heard of a 33-year-old woman that wouldn’t date a 39-year-old man. In fact, that seems to be more common than not in my experience.

A 30 year old woman won't have $1,000,000 not even close. If she's 35+ like you, then you'll be paying roughly 60K in IVF costs per kid. Maybe only one, but still. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 40K per year in daycare, 150K per year for college...like I said, good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out what kind of childhood you want your kids to have. HCOL or LCOL, and what are you willing to deny them for the sake of FIRE? You also need to understand that if one of your children has significant special needs, it will be really expensive and any notion of FIRE will vanish immediately. Instead it will be work until 70 to pay for therapies and adult care.

What is your FIRE number assuming your kids will need a 3br home, health insurance, and college? Are you willing to deny them all sports and activities? Are you willing to make them go in-state or to a much less good college just for FIRE? It can be hard to find a woman who's on board with that.

I would really question your assumption that there's no rush to have kids. Plenty of women don't want an older husband or don't want their kids to have an older dad, and that's what you're on track to be if you don't get serious about dating very soon. Yes late-30s men can still date, marry, and have kids, but it becomes more and more of a liability. Especially if they don't earn that much. You don't earn enough to make up for it.

Well, you didn’t answer the question, but you do raise some good points. My FIRE number is just for me, not for a family—my number is $2 million plus a paid-off $500,000 condo. That would provide $60,000 per year (3% withdrawal), which is fine for me.

Obviously, that would not be enough to support a family, But I assume that my future wife will probably have another million dollars and some home equity (after all, given how much I value savings, I don’t see how I could end up with a spouse that has a fundamentally different view in that regard).

So with $3 million and a paid-off house, I figure that’s plenty for a LCOL area. And I’m not opposed to working in the future if needed – I just don’t want it to be a necessity.

Lastly, I guess I just disagree with your assessment that, in a few years, I’ll be too old to date. I’ve never heard of a 33-year-old woman that wouldn’t date a 39-year-old man. In fact, that seems to be more common than not in my experience.

1) Bwahahhaa to the idea that your wife will have a million dollars. By what age are you expecting this? From a woman younger than you? Who takes time out of the workforce to bear children, and who do you think will be the primary parent with the more flexible job? It doesn't sound like you're intending to be that person.

2) I think plenty of 33 year old women would consider being 39 a liability. It means you'll be an old dad, less energetic, and be an old man before she is ready. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's not a positive thing for you on the dating market. You're already limiting yourself to the tiny pool of women interested in FIRE parenting. And of those women you only want one with significant savings. And now you're cutting it down further with your off-putting age. Your dating pool is more like a teaspoon. You need to open your eyes to the cost of raising kids, how tiring it is, and how being a decent parent makes it hard to maximize earnings.

Ideally, I FIRE at 38 and then meet a woman who’s 33. No kids yet so she’s been able to save that whole time—it’s reasonable for her to have $1 million by then. I’m 33 now and have saved more than that on a normal salary—and could have substantially more had paying off my condo not been such a priority for me.