Double homicide in Silver Spring

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live right by this park and have for 15 years. Yes this deeply concerns me - we walk our dog around this park every morning as do many other neighbors. The fact that it happened so early is really scary too - our teens frequent this park and absolutely could have been there. We are also concerned about the seeming uptick in violence in downtown Silver Spring and many businesses moving out because of it. It’s a real shame because pre-pandemic it seemed very safe and thriving.

We moved here because it is more city than suburb - we really really love it and are not considering moving, nor are any of our neighbors that we know. We’re all just really sad and angry that this is happening but do not feel concerned in our daily lives and certainly don’t feel like this is a “war zone.” We’re all going about our lives as usual though yes, we are concerned and really wish something could be done - it is a Silver Spring problem, yes, but also seems like a general city problem as there are similar reports elsewhere. I am not sure where we would pick up and move from our beloved community and friends that doesn’t have these occasional violent and unacceptable issues. I think we all just feel a bit powerless.

This is because the government considers DTSS and the immediate surrounds as an easy target on which to force social agendas, while also considering it unworthy of investment to ensure equitable levels of public services. It's close in, but doesn't have the protection/self-determination of incorporated Takoma Park or Chevy Chase on either side. The concentrated wealth in those communities and in Bethesda tends to support protective political influence that inner SS doesn't get.

This is 100% true -- we only need to look at the upzoning proposal for a recent example. SS does not need more people; it is already incredibly dense, without proper infrastructure and services to handle the density, yet upzoning is being shoved down our throats.

With that said, part of the problem is that SS residents don't try very hard to protect their own neighborhoods. Bethesda residents would never allow hookah bars that open until 3 PM, yet there's no movement to get rid of them in SS even though they contribute to lots of late-night crime. Similarly, if you look on SS Nextdoor, you'll find lots of people who don't call police in response to crime; if you're ever able to pull up Bethesda Nextdoor, you'll see that it's very different and people welcome the police. SS residents can't expect much from the county when they don't act like they deserve anything different than what they have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me, it's a Silver Spring problem. If you look at Rockville which is similar size population-wise, they dont' have double murders.

Or an innocent man walking to his car in the parking garage after dinner with his family murdered:
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/murder-in-downtown-silver-spring-parking-garage-remains-unsolved-one-year-later

Or a shootout on the downtown streets during the day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2RO7D1-DiA

Bethesda is similar in population. It also has similar levels of urbanization and this stuff isn’t happening.

What is especially weird to me is that all of the way too online TPSS YIMBY urbanism activists also are very much anti-law enforcement and effectively pro-crime. They are getting the downtown SS they want, which is deeply unpleasant.

Bethesda has murders… lululemon, the painter murder, the guy making tunnels, kids have killed their parents,

That’s 15 years of Bethesda murders versus a few months in Silver Spring.

Since Jan 1 there have been 3 homicides in the 3d police district (downtown silver spring). Including these two.

The PP listed 3 murders in Bethesda since 2011 (and one in Kensington).

The overwhelming majority of homicides in Montgomery County every year occur in only 3 areas: Germantown, Gaithersburg and Silver Spring. In Silver Spring, it is split between two neighborhoods, downtown and White Oak, and the violence and particularly the gun violence in Silver Spring is increasing. In terms of gun crime, it’s now indistinguishable from adjacent communities in PG County.
https://www.thetrace.org/2023/02/gun-violence-map-america-shootings/?place=Silver-Spring-Maryland

It’s not a war zone but also not safe.

Zoom in on the location of the crimes and it's very clear they they are occurring disproportionately in the (low-income) apartment complexes. Pull up a map of the LITC developments and compare to the gun violence map. The correlation is fairly tight.
https://www.novoco.com/resource-centers/affordable-housing-tax-credits/lihtc-mapping-tool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in the neighborhood near the Wheaton mall shooting on Sunday at 11 a.m. that was very near the Giant. This is a neighborhood, with an Kensington zip code, often touted on DCUM as fairly affordable and good for families.

It’s disconcerting, but it’s certainly not a war zone here.

What number of homicides per year would qualify as a war zone? To put it in perspective, Baltimore has had 71 this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
With that said, part of the problem is that SS residents don't try very hard to protect their own neighborhoods. Bethesda residents would never allow hookah bars that open until 3 AM, yet there's no movement to get rid of them in SS even though they contribute to lots of late-night crime.

Because Silver Spring elects people like Jawando, who was against any restrictinos on hookah bars:

However, councilmember Will Jawando (D-At-large) voiced concern that the legislation would disproportionately impact minority-owned businesses. He was the sole councilmember to vote against the legislation.

“This bill will put small businesses, mostly if not all, Black and immigrant [owned], out of business. And I don’t think that’s something that governments should do to determine the winners and losers,” Jawando said.

Keep in mind all the bill (which did pass) was doing is requiring hookah lounges to close at the same time as bars.

https://moco360.media/2024/04/02/council-votes-to-restrict-late-night-hours-for-hookah-lounges/

[Anonymous]

It's not necessarily true that Bethesda does not crack down on bars open late at night that contribute to violence.

what about that fairly recent shooting on Cordell (I think near Catrina and the parking garage?). That place is open until 3 am which is crazy to me. I am unsure of who is out that late even on a weekend. (Yes, I was in my 20s once and I hated being out past 1 am.)

Nothing good happens late at night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me, it's a Silver Spring problem. If you look at Rockville which is similar size population-wise, they dont' have double murders.

Or an innocent man walking to his car in the parking garage after dinner with his family murdered:
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/murder-in-downtown-silver-spring-parking-garage-remains-unsolved-one-year-later

Or a shootout on the downtown streets during the day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2RO7D1-DiA

Bethesda is similar in population. It also has similar levels of urbanization and this stuff isn’t happening.

What is especially weird to me is that all of the way too online TPSS YIMBY urbanism activists also are very much anti-law enforcement and effectively pro-crime. They are getting the downtown SS they want, which is deeply unpleasant.

Bethesda has murders… lululemon, the painter murder, the guy making tunnels, kids have killed their parents,

That’s 15 years of Bethesda murders versus a few months in Silver Spring.

Since Jan 1 there have been 3 homicides in the 3d police district (downtown silver spring). Including these two.

The PP listed 3 murders in Bethesda since 2011 (and one in Kensington).

The overwhelming majority of homicides in Montgomery County every year occur in only 3 areas: Germantown, Gaithersburg and Silver Spring. In Silver Spring, it is split between two neighborhoods, downtown and White Oak, and the violence and particularly the gun violence in Silver Spring is increasing. In terms of gun crime, it’s now indistinguishable from adjacent communities in PG County.
https://www.thetrace.org/2023/02/gun-violence-map-america-shootings/?place=Silver-Spring-Maryland

It’s not a war zone but also not safe.

Zoom in on the location of the crimes and it's very clear they they are occurring disproportionately in the (low-income) apartment complexes. Pull up a map of the LITC developments and compare to the gun violence map. The correlation is fairly tight.
https://www.novoco.com/resource-centers/affordable-housing-tax-credits/lihtc-mapping-tool

Pretty strong correlation. But it notably doesn’t capture any of the large apartments that abut Nolte Park where these murders happened and where I presume the victims (and murder) lived.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not necessarily true that Bethesda does not crack down on bars open late at night that contribute to violence.

what about that fairly recent shooting on Cordell (I think near Catrina and the parking garage?). That place is open until 3 am which is crazy to me. I am unsure of who is out that late even on a weekend. (Yes, I was in my 20s once and I hated being out past 1 am.)

Nothing good happens late at night.

Tell us you're vanilla without telling us you're vanilla.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in the neighborhood near the Wheaton mall shooting on Sunday at 11 a.m. that was very near the Giant. This is a neighborhood, with an Kensington zip code, often touted on DCUM as fairly affordable and good for families.

It’s disconcerting, but it’s certainly not a war zone here.

What number of homicides per year would qualify as a war zone? To put it in perspective, Baltimore has had 71 this year.

Not that poster but people in this county do not experience safety equally. Wheaton Mall and DTSS are the two hotspots for murders. They occur across the county but they cluster there. So people do have different community experiences when it comes to safety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live right by this park and have for 15 years. Yes this deeply concerns me - we walk our dog around this park every morning as do many other neighbors. The fact that it happened so early is really scary too - our teens frequent this park and absolutely could have been there. We are also concerned about the seeming uptick in violence in downtown Silver Spring and many businesses moving out because of it. It’s a real shame because pre-pandemic it seemed very safe and thriving.

We moved here because it is more city than suburb - we really really love it and are not considering moving, nor are any of our neighbors that we know. We’re all just really sad and angry that this is happening but do not feel concerned in our daily lives and certainly don’t feel like this is a “war zone.” We’re all going about our lives as usual though yes, we are concerned and really wish something could be done - it is a Silver Spring problem, yes, but also seems like a general city problem as there are similar reports elsewhere. I am not sure where we would pick up and move from our beloved community and friends that doesn’t have these occasional violent and unacceptable issues. I think we all just feel a bit powerless.

This is because the government considers DTSS and the immediate surrounds as an easy target on which to force social agendas, while also considering it unworthy of investment to ensure equitable levels of public services. It's close in, but doesn't have the protection/self-determination of incorporated Takoma Park or Chevy Chase on either side. The concentrated wealth in those communities and in Bethesda tends to support protective political influence that inner SS doesn't get.

This is 100% true -- we only need to look at the upzoning proposal for a recent example. SS does not need more people; it is already incredibly dense, without proper infrastructure and services to handle the density, yet upzoning is being shoved down our throats.

With that said, part of the problem is that SS residents don't try very hard to protect their own neighborhoods. Bethesda residents would never allow hookah bars that open until 3 PM, yet there's no movement to get rid of them in SS even though they contribute to lots of late-night crime. Similarly, if you look on SS Nextdoor, you'll find lots of people who don't call police in response to crime; if you're ever able to pull up Bethesda Nextdoor, you'll see that it's very different and people welcome the police. SS residents can't expect much from the county when they don't act like they deserve anything different than what they have.

Fact check #1: downtown Silver Spring is not "incredibly dense"
Fact check #2: closing time for bars and restaurants in Montgomery County (including Bethesda and Silver Spring) is 2 am on weekdays and 3 am on weekends, the same as hookah bars
Fact check #3: closing time for the Avenue Hookah Lounge in Bethesda is 2 am on weekdays and 3 am on weekends; closing time for the Hot Spot Hookah Bar in downtown Silver Spring is 1 am on weekdays and 3 am on weekends

[Anonymous]

Fact Check #4: *faaaaaaaaart*

[Anonymous]

To all the posters who say they live in Silver Spring and it isn't a war zone - do you live in a SFD/TH/nicer apartment building? Do you live in one of the nice sections? A nice street where the violence isn't occurring? Or do you live in that low-income apartment complex when the majority of shootings is taking place?

If the former, do you not see how you are part of the problem? I guarantee you there are some good kids who live in that low-income apartment complex. Good kids who should be able to grow up and not worry about their safety/future. Good kids who shouldn't have to be exposed to this type of crime just because their parents are poor.

Like someone else said, those families don't have the luxury to move. They are stuck there. Shouldn't those kids deserve a safe place to live just like our kids do? How is living in an unsafe place negatively affecting them? Of course, there's always the main issue of making sure they stay alive and not inadvertently killed by gunfire. But there's also the negatives of living in such a stressed environment. How is it affecting their school work? Their brain development?

What is being done to ensure those kids can live in a safe, peaceful environment? Not prosecuting the criminals so they can still have their guns/shoot and kill people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To all the posters who say they live in Silver Spring and it isn't a war zone - do you live in a SFD/TH/nicer apartment building? Do you live in one of the nice sections? A nice street where the violence isn't occurring? Or do you live in that low-income apartment complex when the majority of shootings is taking place?

If the former, do you not see how you are part of the problem? I guarantee you there are some good kids who live in that low-income apartment complex. Good kids who should be able to grow up and not worry about their safety/future. Good kids who shouldn't have to be exposed to this type of crime just because their parents are poor.

Like someone else said, those families don't have the luxury to move. They are stuck there. Shouldn't those kids deserve a safe place to live just like our kids do? How is living in an unsafe place negatively affecting them? Of course, there's always the main issue of making sure they stay alive and not inadvertently killed by gunfire. But there's also the negatives of living in such a stressed environment. How is it affecting their school work? Their brain development?

What is being done to ensure those kids can live in a safe, peaceful environment? Not prosecuting the criminals so they can still have their guns/shoot and kill people?

Agreed. Overwhelming the majority of people living there are law abiding folks just trying to live their lives. But they have fewer resources and cannot create resiliency and safety to the same extent higher income people do.

[Anonymous]

Wheaton (different than silver spring) is the cheapest place to live in this area so yes it is attracting crime

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To all the posters who say they live in Silver Spring and it isn't a war zone - do you live in a SFD/TH/nicer apartment building? Do you live in one of the nice sections? A nice street where the violence isn't occurring? Or do you live in that low-income apartment complex when the majority of shootings is taking place?

If the former, do you not see how you are part of the problem? I guarantee you there are some good kids who live in that low-income apartment complex. Good kids who should be able to grow up and not worry about their safety/future. Good kids who shouldn't have to be exposed to this type of crime just because their parents are poor.

Like someone else said, those families don't have the luxury to move. They are stuck there. Shouldn't those kids deserve a safe place to live just like our kids do? How is living in an unsafe place negatively affecting them? Of course, there's always the main issue of making sure they stay alive and not inadvertently killed by gunfire. But there's also the negatives of living in such a stressed environment. How is it affecting their school work? Their brain development?

What is being done to ensure those kids can live in a safe, peaceful environment? Not prosecuting the criminals so they can still have their guns/shoot and kill people?

Agreed. Overwhelming the majority of people living there are law abiding folks just trying to live their lives. But they have fewer resources and cannot create resiliency and safety to the same extent higher income people do.

MoCo needs to place enforcement resources where there is greater noncompliance, not spread them out so that each area "has theirs."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live right by this park and have for 15 years. Yes this deeply concerns me - we walk our dog around this park every morning as do many other neighbors. The fact that it happened so early is really scary too - our teens frequent this park and absolutely could have been there. We are also concerned about the seeming uptick in violence in downtown Silver Spring and many businesses moving out because of it. It’s a real shame because pre-pandemic it seemed very safe and thriving.

We moved here because it is more city than suburb - we really really love it and are not considering moving, nor are any of our neighbors that we know. We’re all just really sad and angry that this is happening but do not feel concerned in our daily lives and certainly don’t feel like this is a “war zone.” We’re all going about our lives as usual though yes, we are concerned and really wish something could be done - it is a Silver Spring problem, yes, but also seems like a general city problem as there are similar reports elsewhere. I am not sure where we would pick up and move from our beloved community and friends that doesn’t have these occasional violent and unacceptable issues. I think we all just feel a bit powerless.

This is because the government considers DTSS and the immediate surrounds as an easy target on which to force social agendas, while also considering it unworthy of investment to ensure equitable levels of public services. It's close in, but doesn't have the protection/self-determination of incorporated Takoma Park or Chevy Chase on either side. The concentrated wealth in those communities and in Bethesda tends to support protective political influence that inner SS doesn't get.

This is 100% true -- we only need to look at the upzoning proposal for a recent example. SS does not need more people; it is already incredibly dense, without proper infrastructure and services to handle the density, yet upzoning is being shoved down our throats.

With that said, part of the problem is that SS residents don't try very hard to protect their own neighborhoods. Bethesda residents would never allow hookah bars that open until 3 PM, yet there's no movement to get rid of them in SS even though they contribute to lots of late-night crime. Similarly, if you look on SS Nextdoor, you'll find lots of people who don't call police in response to crime; if you're ever able to pull up Bethesda Nextdoor, you'll see that it's very different and people welcome the police. SS residents can't expect much from the county when they don't act like they deserve anything different than what they have.

Fact check #1: downtown Silver Spring is not "incredibly dense"
Fact check #2: closing time for bars and restaurants in Montgomery County (including Bethesda and Silver Spring) is 2 am on weekdays and 3 am on weekends, the same as hookah bars
Fact check #3: closing time for the Avenue Hookah Lounge in Bethesda is 2 am on weekdays and 3 am on weekends; closing time for the Hot Spot Hookah Bar in downtown Silver Spring is 1 am on weekdays and 3 am on weekends

To #1, it"s more dense than much of MoCo, and much of the surrounds. It could be more so under existing zoning, if ever utilized. As long as the county ensured all the needed public services (which they should be doing wherever they are encouraging development), that could address the perceived need for area housing. As long as there were enough MPDUs, they might encourage relocation from those ESS apartment structures that might need redevelopment due to neglect. As long as those services cover law enforcement, walkable health services, etc., that could balance growth.