Foreign language

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This AGAIN?

The bottom line is that you can get into a decent to good college without taking four years of a language in high school, but the very good and best colleges want to see four years, and why not? Foreign language is important. It’s a complicated world. Speaking a second language is an important thing. It’s a lot more important than a lot of the other bullshit classes that you have to take in high school. Why is everybody so afraid of foreign language?

I'm not afraid of foreign language. I speak three languages, including speaking a language other than English with my immigrant parents. But my child will be stopping his foreign language after this year (10th grade, Spanish 4) because he wants to take other things and he's in orchestra and doesn't want to drop it and there are only so many periods in a day. The truth is that that after four years of middle/high school Spanish, he still can't speak it. Not even close. It's been a huge waste of time (sadly).

We’re not talking about your language ability or experience. We’re talking about your kid’s. Apparently his language abilities aren’t as good as yours.

His language abilities are definitely not as good as mine, and that’s okay. But apparently your language abilities aren’t that good either because you seem to struggle with reading comprehension in English. I mentioned my language abilities in response to the notion that people who don’t encourage their kids to take a language all four years of high school are afraid of foreign language or against their children learning one.

Well, at least we can agree that you don’t want to see your child challenged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are overseas and FL is required in yrs 7 and 8, which DC has done. He is dropping it so that he can keep fine art (his favorite) and econ/commerce (likely focus in college) as his electives in addition to the core academic classes. There just was not room for FL, unless he gave up his favorite subject or his intended college major.

If all of the US schools tell him to go pound sand, so be it. Now that we are out of the US, I see how crazy we make our kids by forcing them to study to jump through some hoop for no reason other than the puppet master in the admissions office put up a hoop.

I have no idea if he will be offered a path to return home for college without a foreign language. But he will be worldly and well educated. And he will know his parents supported him in pursuing his genuine interests in a world where choices must be made.

If FL is your jam, awesome. If not, language barriers will not stop you from succeeding in life. They have this new thing. It’s called AI…

Sorry for the sarcasm. I’m frustrated. I’m not educating my child for some storied era of yore. He can go to college in England or Australia if need be. People study with a focus there. Good grief.

Well, that’s great, but you should know that your planned course of action is exactly the opposite of what any college counselor for a kid focused on top schools would recommend. But it’s your kid, not mine. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This AGAIN?

The bottom line is that you can get into a decent to good college without taking four years of a language in high school, but the very good and best colleges want to see four years, and why not? Foreign language is important. It’s a complicated world. Speaking a second language is an important thing. It’s a lot more important than a lot of the other bullshit classes that you have to take in high school. Why is everybody so afraid of foreign language?

I'm not afraid of foreign language. I speak three languages, including speaking a language other than English with my immigrant parents. But my child will be stopping his foreign language after this year (10th grade, Spanish 4) because he wants to take other things and he's in orchestra and doesn't want to drop it and there are only so many periods in a day. The truth is that that after four years of middle/high school Spanish, he still can't speak it. Not even close. It's been a huge waste of time (sadly).

We’re not talking about your language ability or experience. We’re talking about your kid’s. Apparently his language abilities aren’t as good as yours.

His language abilities are definitely not as good as mine, and that’s okay. But apparently your language abilities aren’t that good either because you seem to struggle with reading comprehension in English. I mentioned my language abilities in response to the notion that people who don’t encourage their kids to take a language all four years of high school are afraid of foreign language or against their children learning one.

You’re contradicting yourself. The very reason you are arguing against your kid having to continue to take a foreign language is because by your own admission he’s not good at it. So, yeah, there’s fear there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand the anti-language folks. I can't remember a lick of algebra or chemistry and thought they both were a waste of time. What's the difference?

I don't think most of us are anti-language. I'm multi-lingual and can speak/read/write 4 and speak 5 languages. I'd much rather they teach kids how to speak..just speak. Don't waste time on the fancy stuff. The vast majority of kids are not going to ever read/write so why bother?

Chemistry and Algebra are gateway courses to higher level education, unless you want to become a mover or do my lawn for a living (not that there's anything wrong with it). I'd say more important than a language.

By your logic high schools shouldn't teach English either.

Just because you can speak a language at home doesn't mean you have any education in it.

Fine.. Don't learn English, Chemistry or Math but learn Spanish. I have a job waiting for you..

Kudos to the PP who called out the blatant racism represented in this post. There is a breathtaking bias on this board anyway towards STEM, but the defensive, confrontational tone in various places on this thread makes a far _better_ case for studying languages and becoming sensitive to nuanced expression than I ever could.

Seriously. What a stunningly racist post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This AGAIN?

The bottom line is that you can get into a decent to good college without taking four years of a language in high school, but the very good and best colleges want to see four years, and why not? Foreign language is important. It’s a complicated world. Speaking a second language is an important thing. It’s a lot more important than a lot of the other bullshit classes that you have to take in high school. Why is everybody so afraid of foreign language?

I'm not afraid of foreign language. I speak three languages, including speaking a language other than English with my immigrant parents. But my child will be stopping his foreign language after this year (10th grade, Spanish 4) because he wants to take other things and he's in orchestra and doesn't want to drop it and there are only so many periods in a day. The truth is that that after four years of middle/high school Spanish, he still can't speak it. Not even close. It's been a huge waste of time (sadly).

We’re not talking about your language ability or experience. We’re talking about your kid’s. Apparently his language abilities aren’t as good as yours.

His language abilities are definitely not as good as mine, and that’s okay. But apparently your language abilities aren’t that good either because you seem to struggle with reading comprehension in English. I mentioned my language abilities in response to the notion that people who don’t encourage their kids to take a language all four years of high school are afraid of foreign language or against their children learning one.

You’re contradicting yourself. The very reason you are arguing against your kid having to continue to take a foreign language is because by your own admission he’s not good at it. So, yeah, there’s fear there.

I was just responding to the PP’s little dig that his abilities aren’t as good as mine. There’s no fear. He gets As in Spanish even though he can’t speak it. He’s stopping after 2 years of taking it in HS because he has other things he’s more interested in. If your kid wants to take a FL all four years, great! Go for it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This AGAIN?

The bottom line is that you can get into a decent to good college without taking four years of a language in high school, but the very good and best colleges want to see four years, and why not? Foreign language is important. It’s a complicated world. Speaking a second language is an important thing. It’s a lot more important than a lot of the other bullshit classes that you have to take in high school. Why is everybody so afraid of foreign language?

I'm not afraid of foreign language. I speak three languages, including speaking a language other than English with my immigrant parents. But my child will be stopping his foreign language after this year (10th grade, Spanish 4) because he wants to take other things and he's in orchestra and doesn't want to drop it and there are only so many periods in a day. The truth is that that after four years of middle/high school Spanish, he still can't speak it. Not even close. It's been a huge waste of time (sadly).

We’re not talking about your language ability or experience. We’re talking about your kid’s. Apparently his language abilities aren’t as good as yours.

His language abilities are definitely not as good as mine, and that’s okay. But apparently your language abilities aren’t that good either because you seem to struggle with reading comprehension in English. I mentioned my language abilities in response to the notion that people who don’t encourage their kids to take a language all four years of high school are afraid of foreign language or against their children learning one.

You’re contradicting yourself. The very reason you are arguing against your kid having to continue to take a foreign language is because by your own admission he’s not good at it. So, yeah, there’s fear there.

I was just responding to the PP’s little dig that his abilities aren’t as good as mine. There’s no fear. He gets As in Spanish even though he can’t speak it. He’s stopping after 2 years of taking it in HS because he has other things he’s more interested in. If your kid wants to take a FL all four years, great! Go for it!

Well, there’s no way to know for sure if it’s going to hurt him when it comes to college admissions, but I hope it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If a college requires three years of foreign language, does that mean in high school? What if you took two years in middle school and placed into Spanish 2 or 3?

3 years of language is FINE. No need for AP!

My kid with not-so-stellar grades got into several T40 schools and T30 (S)LACs with 4 years of lang (1+3). No AP. Another (went to magnet though) got into a T20 with 3 years of lang. (1+2) in HS. No AP.

Without a hook, this did not happen recently (last 2 years or so).

Go ahead and believe what you want. I'm talking about a 2024 kid for the first one and 2021 for the second.

2021 doesn’t apply. And I don’t believe your story about your 2024 kid.

[Anonymous]

Colleges say what they want to see. Some say four years of FL, some three, and some two. Same as they do with math, science, history. I would not waste an application on a school that requires four years of you have only two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colleges say what they want to see. Some say four years of FL, some three, and some two. Same as they do with math, science, history. I would not waste an application on a school that requires four years of you have only two.

Has anyone ever seen a college that formally requires four years of language study in high school for admissions? Please link the requirements page. Because I never have.

[Anonymous]

OP, there is not a universal answer to this question. My kid found every school had different requirements. They also changed (at least in tone) for one school my kid was considering between when he started looking and when he applied.

This is a question for a college school tour (not student guide) info session (online or in person) with admissions officers from the school you are considering.

[Anonymous]

I know 2023 grads who are attending Vandy, Wake Forest and W&M oos, each stopped at level 4 of their language while juniors in HS (meaning chose not to take AP as seniors in HS).

I also know a 2021 grad who attends UVA oos who did same, and while that grad isnt as recent I bring him up bc posters on this board emphasize how important 4 yrs of FL in high school is for UVA.

None of these kids were hooked but all are smart and took generally challenging classes.

[Anonymous]

I would really like to believe that in this day an age a foreign language class is no longer considered a “core class”. Especially for kids applying to STEM or business majors. Its really is an outdated concept with the easy availability of translation apps [especialy at our HS where the quality of teaching is abysmal its as much of a waset of time as PE class]. But Im not sure how many AOs are on board with that yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are overseas and FL is required in yrs 7 and 8, which DC has done. He is dropping it so that he can keep fine art (his favorite) and econ/commerce (likely focus in college) as his electives in addition to the core academic classes. There just was not room for FL, unless he gave up his favorite subject or his intended college major.

If all of the US schools tell him to go pound sand, so be it. Now that we are out of the US, I see how crazy we make our kids by forcing them to study to jump through some hoop for no reason other than the puppet master in the admissions office put up a hoop.

I have no idea if he will be offered a path to return home for college without a foreign language. But he will be worldly and well educated. And he will know his parents supported him in pursuing his genuine interests in a world where choices must be made.

If FL is your jam, awesome. If not, language barriers will not stop you from succeeding in life. They have this new thing. It’s called AI…

Sorry for the sarcasm. I’m frustrated. I’m not educating my child for some storied era of yore. He can go to college in England or Australia if need be. People study with a focus there. Good grief.

Love this. Good for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate and understand that. Which is why I think it is terrific to study languages if that is your thing. My point was more that there is a workaround if necessary.

I just think the US is so darned prescriptive. It has become boring to me to see all these high schoolers on the same path. We were just willing to let our son take a risk.

I have no idea how this will end. And that’s okay.

What a joke. Which major country on this planet isn’t “prescriptive” when it comes to elite college admissions? China? Japan? The UK? Germany? Australia? For most of these countries a kid’s university selection, major and often career are dictated by what decisions were made since they were, what, 10 or 12 years old? Do you really think the US is unique in having particular and sometimes perplexing university admissions requirements. If you do, then you don’t get out much.

The real difference is that American parents all think their own kid deserves special treatment and shouldn’t have to play by the rules,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would really like to believe that in this day an age a foreign language class is no longer considered a “core class”. Especially for kids applying to STEM or business majors. Its really is an outdated concept with the easy availability of translation apps [especialy at our HS where the quality of teaching is abysmal its as much of a waset of time as PE class]. But Im not sure how many AOs are on board with that yet.

Yea, you’re right. Becoming well versed in another language and culture is pointless these days now that we have translation apps. The last thing this world needs is a deeper understanding of each other. Such an outdated concept.

🙄