Foreign language

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would really like to believe that in this day an age a foreign language class is no longer considered a “core class”. Especially for kids applying to STEM or business majors. Its really is an outdated concept with the easy availability of translation apps [especialy at our HS where the quality of teaching is abysmal its as much of a waset of time as PE class]. But Im not sure how many AOs are on board with that yet.

Wow, this is an answer heavy with bias. World language is outdated, why not also English classes, too, since we can all just watch videos and use ChatGpt to write our papers. Might as well also scrap social studies, because one can use google to find out history and georgraphy facts.

All hail the mighty STEM!

You may call this bias, but I call it reality of living in 2024 and entering the workforce in 2028 or later (after 4 years of college). Foreign language is a great elective and its wonderful to be able to order off a menu in French, but I do not think it should be considered a core high school class for purposes of college admissions (especially for STEM majors). The reality is that even after 6-7 years of middle and high school foreign language instruction in the United States, most students can barely order off a menu- but even if the instruction were better, it is not an essential skill in this modern era. One-two years of computer science (also an elective, by the way) is at least an equally important foundational skill for the majority of jobs these students are going to be facing when they leave college. Its just reality.

How quaint! We spent a month in Japan last year and most of our ordering was using google translate to read the menu and pointing a finger at the item accompanied by a smile and thank you of course. One of our companions knew japanese but it was a PIA asking them to step in for everything. Worked well for us.

Your iPhone could calculate the tip in the restaurants, too (actually many restaurant bills have tip right on it nowadays) so I guess you don’t need math classes either.

Sure. If you think math stops at simple arithmetic!

Um, ditto if you think language stops at menu ordering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a language all 4 years. It is considered to be a "core subject" by colleges. Trust me. Do it.

Np my ds will be done with AP Spanish junior year. I doubt it’s uncommon. Why would kids be penalized for being done earlier if they reach highest level?

Your DS will be fine.

While there are posters on this board who seem to think not, my DCs were accepted to very top colleges after completing 4 years of a foreign language by sophomore and junior years, respectively. Several of their friends were, too. It's fine if the 4th year is completed before senior year. (At our school they can take AP foreign language in the 4th language year if they've been on the honors language track.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about switching a language after 2 years and doing 2 years of one, and 2 years of another? Does that look bad?

We have two DCs. Each did 2 years of a language in middle school, then 2 years in high school, with total credit equal to 3 years. They didn't do the 4th year or AP of this language because they were exhausted by it, but instead did 2 years of another foreign language, so the transcript looks like 3 + 2.

Each got into a T25.

And doesn't actually know much of anything about the languages they started.

Don't disagree. Older DC did continue with the second language for 2 years of college, as required by the university, and is reasonably capable in it.

Younger DC is doing liberal arts/humanities so will have the same requirement and will do the same.

I had 4 years of the same high school foreign language, and still needed 2 years of college instruction to be reasonably capable of using that language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This AGAIN?

The bottom line is that you can get into a decent to good college without taking four years of a language in high school, but the very good and best colleges want to see four years, and why not? Foreign language is important. It’s a complicated world. Speaking a second language is an important thing. It’s a lot more important than a lot of the other bullshit classes that you have to take in high school. Why is everybody so afraid of foreign language?

I think because they can be time consuming. Foreign language classes are just a bunch of rote memorization, you cannot get around the time needed to sit and memorize no how “smart” you are. The smart kids in all the AP science, math, English classes that are trying to get into top colleges, want to put their brain power toward the tough and complex concepts that come with these classes. They don’t want to devote a significant time chuck to a bunch of word memorizing week and week. But they have to because they need an A

Math is a bunch of rote memorization at the beginning, too. And through most of high school math, it still doesn't require deep thought or analysis. My highly humanities oriented kid had no problem sailing through calculus in high school and it was pretty rote for him, just practicing similar problems. Do you know how many times he asked me, "why do I need this, I'll never use it" - and I had no answer as in my life and 30 year career I've probably not used much more than basic math skills from time to time.

I'm not arguing math should be eliminated. I just do not understand why so many Stem focused people think subjects like world language are worthless. Even when you get to APs, Stem people act like AP maths and hard sciences are the "hardest" APs. That humanities oriented kid I mentioned above had no sweat getting 5s on AP calc BC and physics C (he literally didn't study - it was senior year and he was into college) - however, he did struggle to get a 4 on the AP spanish exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would really like to believe that in this day an age a foreign language class is no longer considered a “core class”. Especially for kids applying to STEM or business majors. Its really is an outdated concept with the easy availability of translation apps [especialy at our HS where the quality of teaching is abysmal its as much of a waset of time as PE class]. But Im not sure how many AOs are on board with that yet.

Wow, this is an answer heavy with bias. World language is outdated, why not also English classes, too, since we can all just watch videos and use ChatGpt to write our papers. Might as well also scrap social studies, because one can use google to find out history and georgraphy facts.

All hail the mighty STEM!

You may call this bias, but I call it reality of living in 2024 and entering the workforce in 2028 or later (after 4 years of college). Foreign language is a great elective and its wonderful to be able to order off a menu in French, but I do not think it should be considered a core high school class for purposes of college admissions (especially for STEM majors). The reality is that even after 6-7 years of middle and high school foreign language instruction in the United States, most students can barely order off a menu- but even if the instruction were better, it is not an essential skill in this modern era. One-two years of computer science (also an elective, by the way) is at least an equally important foundational skill for the majority of jobs these students are going to be facing when they leave college. Its just reality.

How quaint! We spent a month in Japan last year and most of our ordering was using google translate to read the menu and pointing a finger at the item accompanied by a smile and thank you of course. One of our companions knew japanese but it was a PIA asking them to step in for everything. Worked well for us.

Your iPhone could calculate the tip in the restaurants, too (actually many restaurant bills have tip right on it nowadays) so I guess you don’t need math classes either.

Sure. If you think math stops at simple arithmetic!

Um, ditto if you think language stops at menu ordering.

I do.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t read the whole thread, but what about ASL? My kid wants to take this, and I am fine with this choice (I know my kid).

But I also don’t want it to close opportunities. Should I push for spanish?

[Anonymous]

Part of why top colleges are looking for 4 years of WL in high school is another way to ensure that students are taking a rigorous course load and not just defaulting into classes which are easy for them. The same reason future English and history majors are still expected to take calculus and physics in high school if they want to be admitted to top colleges, even though likely neither is relevant to what they intend to study or do in the future.

[Anonymous]

How do colleges handle bilingual kids? Do they prefer that they take four years of a third language?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your STEM kid is so brilliant then they should be able to get easy A's in everything not STEM, right? Because only STEM is actually challenging or useful or worthy of their superior intellect. So who cares about that language requirement? Should be able to knock out 2 or 3 APs with just a little time on Duolingo, right? Easy as Honors AP My Kid Is So Super Smart Magnet Accelerated Better Than You Precalc, yes?

And you extrapolate all that because I pointed out that calculating a tip is basic arithmetic?

NP. Is it basic arithmetic? I mean in DC there are service fees, hospitality fees, fair wage fees, employee wellness fees, Initiative 82 fees, to-go package fees, culinary fees, and restaurant recover fees all at different percentages at different businesses. How do you tip on what? It really takes a humanities degree to equitably support and value the work of our community members without benefiting the business owners that are exploiting their employees and their customers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rolling single track was his choice. At 16, he could have chosen a broader subject selection. Many do. But some don’t. And that is the beauty of *choice*

For my own DC, we will not take a narrow choice. We just won’t necessarily include FL. Some other kid will choose to leave out economics. Works well for us.

Gotta love all the “we’s” and “us’s” in this response. Your poor kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This AGAIN?

The bottom line is that you can get into a decent to good college without taking four years of a language in high school, but the very good and best colleges want to see four years, and why not? Foreign language is important. It’s a complicated world. Speaking a second language is an important thing. It’s a lot more important than a lot of the other bullshit classes that you have to take in high school. Why is everybody so afraid of foreign language?

I think because they can be time consuming. Foreign language classes are just a bunch of rote memorization, you cannot get around the time needed to sit and memorize no how “smart” you are. The smart kids in all the AP science, math, English classes that are trying to get into top colleges, want to put their brain power toward the tough and complex concepts that come with these classes. They don’t want to devote a significant time chuck to a bunch of word memorizing week and week. But they have to because they need an A

If you really think that that’s all foreign language is about, then that explains why your kids struggle with it so much. Memorizing words is the least of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do colleges handle bilingual kids? Do they prefer that they take four years of a third language?

The requirement is for 120 hours per year, for a set number of years, in a classroom at an accredited high school. Language acquisition is not actually required. No proficiency exam is required. So no, being bilingual doesn’t help at all. Yes, it’s completely irrational; that’s why people hate this particular requirement more than all the others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do colleges handle bilingual kids? Do they prefer that they take four years of a third language?

The requirement is for 120 hours per year, for a set number of years, in a classroom at an accredited high school. Language acquisition is not actually required. No proficiency exam is required. So no, being bilingual doesn’t help at all. Yes, it’s completely irrational; that’s why people hate this particular requirement more than all the others.

Again, how is this any differentAgain, how is this any different than math? Or science? I had four kids, go through all four years of science and math, including the AP level, and trust me: they can’t remember any of it. than math? Or science? I had four kids go through all four years of science and math, including the AP level, and trust me: they can’t remember any of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do colleges handle bilingual kids? Do they prefer that they take four years of a third language?

Mine both took French AP in 10th grade (5s). One took no more foreign language. Got into several top state universities. The AP fulfilled the university foreign language requirement. The younger one was at a school that offered a post AP French culture course and he took that in 12th grade for fun. Went to a top 20 in the world university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This AGAIN?

The bottom line is that you can get into a decent to good college without taking four years of a language in high school, but the very good and best colleges want to see four years, and why not? Foreign language is important. It’s a complicated world. Speaking a second language is an important thing. It’s a lot more important than a lot of the other bullshit classes that you have to take in high school. Why is everybody so afraid of foreign language?

I think because they can be time consuming. Foreign language classes are just a bunch of rote memorization, you cannot get around the time needed to sit and memorize no how “smart” you are. The smart kids in all the AP science, math, English classes that are trying to get into top colleges, want to put their brain power toward the tough and complex concepts that come with these classes. They don’t want to devote a significant time chuck to a bunch of word memorizing week and week. But they have to because they need an A

I teach languages in college. The memorizing is all concentrated in the first two semesters.