Foreign language

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If a college requires three years of foreign language, does that mean in high school? What if you took two years in middle school and placed into Spanish 2 or 3?

3 years of language is FINE. No need for AP!

My kid with not-so-stellar grades got into several T40 schools and T30 (S)LACs with 4 years of lang (1+3). No AP. Another (went to magnet though) got into a T20 with 3 years of lang. (1+2) in HS. No AP.

Without a hook, this did not happen recently (last 2 years or so).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep in mind many colleges and universities (especially LACs!) have a requirement for foreign language while you're in college. So stopping early does your student no favors.

People keep saying this but it isn’t necessarily true.

Some students would *gasp* prefer to study the language in college than in high school where the classroom experience involves a lot of disciplining and chaos management in English.

Some students do well in the language and drop it to focus on preferred electives and do just fine with college admissions and meeting the college requirements for language.

There isn’t One Path.

Lol bullshit. There’s not a single kid in college who didn’t take four years of language in high school who put it off because they really really wanted to take it in college. What a joke.

Mine hated language. He did complete a total of three years (1+2) and stopped. Had no issues getting into a T20. Guess what he did? He started a completely new language in college (completely unnecessary for his major and his college) and is now at Level 4 proficiency. Kids do crazy things.

LOL, how do you know he "had no issue" getting into a T20? Did you sit in on the AdCom meetings? Or are you assuming that just because he wasn't waitlisted he had no issue?

DP. Do people like you just drink some a-hole tonic and show up here to practice a-holery? Seriously?

Sorry for calling out hyperbole. But that’s what it is. With no basis in fact.

Why is is hyperbole? The parent claims their kid did NOT do 4 years of language and DID get into a T20, so obviously the lack of language was NOT a negative factor, as in "did not cause issues", no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If a college requires three years of foreign language, does that mean in high school? What if you took two years in middle school and placed into Spanish 2 or 3?

3 years of language is FINE. No need for AP!

My kid with not-so-stellar grades got into several T40 schools and T30 (S)LACs with 4 years of lang (1+3). No AP. Another (went to magnet though) got into a T20 with 3 years of lang. (1+2) in HS. No AP.

Without a hook, this did not happen recently (last 2 years or so).

Go ahead and believe what you want. I'm talking about a 2024 kid for the first one and 2021 for the second.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the question is whether you need to take three years of French in high school or just get the level of French 3 which you can usually do with two years of college and one middle school.

I think we have said it may depend on the college, but several of us have posted experience with successful college applications with only two years of language in HS.

This question about language is asked every couple of months, people show up to categorically state that you need 4 years of language, parents of kids (like us) who had good college outcomes with 2 -3 years of language pipe in to say, "mm..not really", and more 4-yearsers show up to drown us out..

YOU DON'T NEED 4 YEARS OF LANGUAGE IN HIGH SCHOOL

But what about what Dean J wrote on a blog once? I follow her like a God and do everything she says. I am so in awe of her I can’t even say her entire name.

We love Dean J and treated every word of hers like gospel. I'm the parent that posted about college outcomes for 2 of my kids with different profiles. DC1 applied and got into UVA with 3 years of language (1+2). He loved UVA but eventually chose to go elsewhere.

DC2 did not have the profile for UVA. He did 4 years of language (1+3). No AP. Got into several colleges without issues.

BTW, Dean J also doesn't say that UVA protects yield (or manages yield) ..or maybe she says they don't). They do. Tons of posts on here and we also know several kids with great profiles that are not admitted. So take what people in the business say with a grain of salt.

She def. is still one of the best in the business..

Lol another one of the “got into several colleges without issues” poster. What exactly does that mean? Virtually anybody can get into college “without issues” by applying to the right colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep in mind many colleges and universities (especially LACs!) have a requirement for foreign language while you're in college. So stopping early does your student no favors.

People keep saying this but it isn’t necessarily true.

Some students would *gasp* prefer to study the language in college than in high school where the classroom experience involves a lot of disciplining and chaos management in English.

Some students do well in the language and drop it to focus on preferred electives and do just fine with college admissions and meeting the college requirements for language.

There isn’t One Path.

Lol bullshit. There’s not a single kid in college who didn’t take four years of language in high school who put it off because they really really wanted to take it in college. What a joke.

Mine hated language. He did complete a total of three years (1+2) and stopped. Had no issues getting into a T20. Guess what he did? He started a completely new language in college (completely unnecessary for his major and his college) and is now at Level 4 proficiency. Kids do crazy things.

LOL, how do you know he "had no issue" getting into a T20? Did you sit in on the AdCom meetings? Or are you assuming that just because he wasn't waitlisted he had no issue?

DP. Do people like you just drink some a-hole tonic and show up here to practice a-holery? Seriously?

Sorry for calling out hyperbole. But that’s what it is. With no basis in fact.

Why is is hyperbole? The parent claims their kid did NOT do 4 years of language and DID get into a T20, so obviously the lack of language was NOT a negative factor, as in "did not cause issues", no?

It’s not even remotely obvious. The poster knows the end result, sure, but doesn’t know thr debate that went into it. That’s my point. They easily could have said “all I know is that my kid didn’t take four years and got into a T20.” Because that is ALL the poster knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the question is whether you need to take three years of French in high school or just get the level of French 3 which you can usually do with two years of college and one middle school.

I think we have said it may depend on the college, but several of us have posted experience with successful college applications with only two years of language in HS.

This question about language is asked every couple of months, people show up to categorically state that you need 4 years of language, parents of kids (like us) who had good college outcomes with 2 -3 years of language pipe in to say, "mm..not really", and more 4-yearsers show up to drown us out..

YOU DON'T NEED 4 YEARS OF LANGUAGE IN HIGH SCHOOL

But what about what Dean J wrote on a blog once? I follow her like a God and do everything she says. I am so in awe of her I can’t even say her entire name.

We love Dean J and treated every word of hers like gospel. I'm the parent that posted about college outcomes for 2 of my kids with different profiles. DC1 applied and got into UVA with 3 years of language (1+2). He loved UVA but eventually chose to go elsewhere.

DC2 did not have the profile for UVA. He did 4 years of language (1+3). No AP. Got into several colleges without issues.

BTW, Dean J also doesn't say that UVA protects yield (or manages yield) ..or maybe she says they don't). They do. Tons of posts on here and we also know several kids with great profiles that are not admitted. So take what people in the business say with a grain of salt.

She def. is still one of the best in the business..

Lol another one of the “got into several colleges without issues” poster. What exactly does that mean? Virtually anybody can get into college “without issues” by applying to the right colleges.

Lol. Another one of the 'drunk on a-hole juice' poster. What brand of juice do you drink?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep in mind many colleges and universities (especially LACs!) have a requirement for foreign language while you're in college. So stopping early does your student no favors.

People keep saying this but it isn’t necessarily true.

Some students would *gasp* prefer to study the language in college than in high school where the classroom experience involves a lot of disciplining and chaos management in English.

Some students do well in the language and drop it to focus on preferred electives and do just fine with college admissions and meeting the college requirements for language.

There isn’t One Path.

Lol bullshit. There’s not a single kid in college who didn’t take four years of language in high school who put it off because they really really wanted to take it in college. What a joke.

Mine hated language. He did complete a total of three years (1+2) and stopped. Had no issues getting into a T20. Guess what he did? He started a completely new language in college (completely unnecessary for his major and his college) and is now at Level 4 proficiency. Kids do crazy things.

LOL, how do you know he "had no issue" getting into a T20? Did you sit in on the AdCom meetings? Or are you assuming that just because he wasn't waitlisted he had no issue?

DP. Do people like you just drink some a-hole tonic and show up here to practice a-holery? Seriously?

Sorry for calling out hyperbole. But that’s what it is. With no basis in fact.

Why is is hyperbole? The parent claims their kid did NOT do 4 years of language and DID get into a T20, so obviously the lack of language was NOT a negative factor, as in "did not cause issues", no?

It’s not even remotely obvious. The poster knows the end result, sure, but doesn’t know thr debate that went into it. That’s my point. They easily could have said “all I know is that my kid didn’t take four years and got into a T20.” Because that is ALL the poster knows.

It's at least as strong as the 'you need 4 years of language to get into a top college' thesis. At least this poster knows something. Those posters don't even know that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This AGAIN?

The bottom line is that you can get into a decent to good college without taking four years of a language in high school, but the very good and best colleges want to see four years, and why not? Foreign language is important. It’s a complicated world. Speaking a second language is an important thing. It’s a lot more important than a lot of the other bullshit classes that you have to take in high school. Why is everybody so afraid of foreign language?

I'm not afraid of foreign language. I speak three languages, including speaking a language other than English with my immigrant parents. But my child will be stopping his foreign language after this year (10th grade, Spanish 4) because he wants to take other things and he's in orchestra and doesn't want to drop it and there are only so many periods in a day. The truth is that that after four years of middle/high school Spanish, he still can't speak it. Not even close. It's been a huge waste of time (sadly).

We’re not talking about your language ability or experience. We’re talking about your kid’s. Apparently his language abilities aren’t as good as yours.

His language abilities are definitely not as good as mine, and that’s okay. But apparently your language abilities aren’t that good either because you seem to struggle with reading comprehension in English. I mentioned my language abilities in response to the notion that people who don’t encourage their kids to take a language all four years of high school are afraid of foreign language or against their children learning one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the question is whether you need to take three years of French in high school or just get the level of French 3 which you can usually do with two years of college and one middle school.

I think we have said it may depend on the college, but several of us have posted experience with successful college applications with only two years of language in HS.

This question about language is asked every couple of months, people show up to categorically state that you need 4 years of language, parents of kids (like us) who had good college outcomes with 2 -3 years of language pipe in to say, "mm..not really", and more 4-yearsers show up to drown us out..

YOU DON'T NEED 4 YEARS OF LANGUAGE IN HIGH SCHOOL

+1. NP. High school senior admitted ED to a T10 with 3 yrs Spanish. The rest of the transcript matters! (Had multivariable calc and Physics C, among other things. High stats.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand the anti-language folks. I can't remember a lick of algebra or chemistry and thought they both were a waste of time. What's the difference?

+1
My kids are good at the humanities and languages. Both took their FL all four years of high school, through AP and one is now minoring in that language in college. On the flip side, neither took calculus in high school or college because they had no need to. Zero problems with great college acceptances. I would just go with the student’s strengths and stop worrying about what people tell you you *have* to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand the anti-language folks. I can't remember a lick of algebra or chemistry and thought they both were a waste of time. What's the difference?

I don't think most of us are anti-language. I'm multi-lingual and can speak/read/write 4 and speak 5 languages. I'd much rather they teach kids how to speak..just speak. Don't waste time on the fancy stuff. The vast majority of kids are not going to ever read/write so why bother?

Chemistry and Algebra are gateway courses to higher level education, unless you want to become a mover or do my lawn for a living (not that there's anything wrong with it). I'd say more important than a language.

By your logic high schools shouldn't teach English either.

Just because you can speak a language at home doesn't mean you have any education in it.

Fine.. Don't learn English, Chemistry or Math but learn Spanish. I have a job waiting for you..

Kudos to the PP who called out the blatant racism represented in this post. There is a breathtaking bias on this board anyway towards STEM, but the defensive, confrontational tone in various places on this thread makes a far _better_ case for studying languages and becoming sensitive to nuanced expression than I ever could.

[Anonymous]

We are overseas and FL is required in yrs 7 and 8, which DC has done. He is dropping it so that he can keep fine art (his favorite) and econ/commerce (likely focus in college) as his electives in addition to the core academic classes. There just was not room for FL, unless he gave up his favorite subject or his intended college major.

If all of the US schools tell him to go pound sand, so be it. Now that we are out of the US, I see how crazy we make our kids by forcing them to study to jump through some hoop for no reason other than the puppet master in the admissions office put up a hoop.

I have no idea if he will be offered a path to return home for college without a foreign language. But he will be worldly and well educated. And he will know his parents supported him in pursuing his genuine interests in a world where choices must be made.

If FL is your jam, awesome. If not, language barriers will not stop you from succeeding in life. They have this new thing. It’s called AI…

Sorry for the sarcasm. I’m frustrated. I’m not educating my child for some storied era of yore. He can go to college in England or Australia if need be. People study with a focus there. Good grief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are overseas and FL is required in yrs 7 and 8, which DC has done. He is dropping it so that he can keep fine art (his favorite) and econ/commerce (likely focus in college) as his electives in addition to the core academic classes. There just was not room for FL, unless he gave up his favorite subject or his intended college major.

If all of the US schools tell him to go pound sand, so be it. Now that we are out of the US, I see how crazy we make our kids by forcing them to study to jump through some hoop for no reason other than the puppet master in the admissions office put up a hoop.

I have no idea if he will be offered a path to return home for college without a foreign language. But he will be worldly and well educated. And he will know his parents supported him in pursuing his genuine interests in a world where choices must be made.

If FL is your jam, awesome. If not, language barriers will not stop you from succeeding in life. They have this new thing. It’s called AI…

Sorry for the sarcasm. I’m frustrated. I’m not educating my child for some storied era of yore. He can go to college in England or Australia if need be. People study with a focus there. Good grief.

Language isn't about translating: it's about trying to understand the way that another culture, whether past or present, views the world. It's no less practical than trying to understand the way that the world is organized by studying mathematics - and no easier, either.

I agree that it can be hard watching DCs be required to take courses in something they don't care about when there are other things they care about more. My own DC is disappointed that they _don't_ have time for language right now and worried that they will be starting too late (alas, yes, my DC, you will be behind - here in the US we start languages so very late that we deprive most students of the opportunity to progress to anything fun or achieve any degree of real proficiency).

But please know that being able to feed a conversation through an AI app is not the same as trying to communicate with a human being or read a poem in its original language or understand why a song uses exactly _those_ words and no others - any more than being able to run some figures on a calculator is the same as being able to understand a complex mathematical proof. There is glorious complexity to both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep in mind many colleges and universities (especially LACs!) have a requirement for foreign language while you're in college. So stopping early does your student no favors.

People keep saying this but it isn’t necessarily true.

Some students would *gasp* prefer to study the language in college than in high school where the classroom experience involves a lot of disciplining and chaos management in English.

Some students do well in the language and drop it to focus on preferred electives and do just fine with college admissions and meeting the college requirements for language.

There isn’t One Path.

Lol bullshit. There’s not a single kid in college who didn’t take four years of language in high school who put it off because they really really wanted to take it in college. What a joke.

Mine hated language. He did complete a total of three years (1+2) and stopped. Had no issues getting into a T20. Guess what he did? He started a completely new language in college (completely unnecessary for his major and his college) and is now at Level 4 proficiency. Kids do crazy things.

LOL, how do you know he "had no issue" getting into a T20? Did you sit in on the AdCom meetings? Or are you assuming that just because he wasn't waitlisted he had no issue?

DP. Do people like you just drink some a-hole tonic and show up here to practice a-holery? Seriously?

Sorry for calling out hyperbole. But that’s what it is. With no basis in fact.

Why is is hyperbole? The parent claims their kid did NOT do 4 years of language and DID get into a T20, so obviously the lack of language was NOT a negative factor, as in "did not cause issues", no?

It’s not even remotely obvious. The poster knows the end result, sure, but doesn’t know thr debate that went into it. That’s my point. They easily could have said “all I know is that my kid didn’t take four years and got into a T20.” Because that is ALL the poster knows.

It's at least as strong as the 'you need 4 years of language to get into a top college' thesis. At least this poster knows something. Those posters don't even know that!

Not a single poster said “need.” Not one.

[Anonymous]

I appreciate and understand that. Which is why I think it is terrific to study languages if that is your thing. My point was more that there is a workaround if necessary.

I just think the US is so darned prescriptive. It has become boring to me to see all these high schoolers on the same path. We were just willing to let our son take a risk.

I have no idea how this will end. And that’s okay.