New hire thinks pushback is due to implicit bias

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any black folks out here on this board with suggestions?

This.

I’m Black and am not here to fix your problems.

So don't post. No one's making you do anything. OP is asking for help. You don't have to give it.

It’s not difficult to read and educate yourself. It’s not the job of black or old to educate white people. It’s exhausting, they’d literally be educating 24x7.

We have enough resources that we can’t expect black peoples to constantly educate.

I'm sorry, this "it's not my job to educate you" business is such crap. What exactly is your theory of change?

We're all in this together. This country. If your attitude towards well-meaning people asking for help understanding oppression is "f* off, it's not my job to educate you," guess what? Things ain't gonna change. Things change when people show empathy and share experiences and perspectives. Going off in a huff just reinforces stereotypes and fosters ill will. It may make you feel better, but it makes the world worse.

You can’t just sit in your ignorance and ask for a free education.

Have you read books on the subject, watch documentaries? And have question. What are they?

Asking for a full ass education because you are too lazy to learn on your own shows me you don’t really GAF so why waste my time if it’s gonna slide off your back.

Start with White Fragility (to understand your current feelings), check out the 13th that’s a fun one.

DP. I don't expect you to educate me, but don't expect me to buy into all your BS, then.

And there we go… you’ve already made up your mind and seeing your own bias isn’t even in the cards.

Sad, you said you want an education then I give you resources and you post that.

Exhausting!

But what you are "teaching" is not fact. It is opinion. There may be "research" behind it, but you can "prove" anything. Bias. Everyone has it. Everyone will jump through hoops to prove their point.

Those throwing out unconscious bias and racism as the cause of everything are mired in their own unconscious bias.

That isn't to say that I don't believe racism is real. It is. Unconscious bias is real. It's how the brain works. But to not recognize it in ourselves is "exhausting" coming from all of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any black folks out here on this board with suggestions?

This.

I’m Black and am not here to fix your problems.

So don't post. No one's making you do anything. OP is asking for help. You don't have to give it.

It’s not difficult to read and educate yourself. It’s not the job of black or old to educate white people. It’s exhausting, they’d literally be educating 24x7.

We have enough resources that we can’t expect black peoples to constantly educate.

I'm sorry, this "it's not my job to educate you" business is such crap. What exactly is your theory of change?

We're all in this together. This country. If your attitude towards well-meaning people asking for help understanding oppression is "f* off, it's not my job to educate you," guess what? Things ain't gonna change. Things change when people show empathy and share experiences and perspectives. Going off in a huff just reinforces stereotypes and fosters ill will. It may make you feel better, but it makes the world worse.

You can’t just sit in your ignorance and ask for a free education.

Have you read books on the subject, watch documentaries? And have question. What are they?

Asking for a full ass education because you are too lazy to learn on your own shows me you don’t really GAF so why waste my time if it’s gonna slide off your back.

Start with White Fragility (to understand your current feelings), check out the 13th that’s a fun one.

DP. I don't expect you to educate me, but don't expect me to buy into all your BS, then.

And there we go… you’ve already made up your mind and seeing your own bias isn’t even in the cards.

Sad, you said you want an education then I give you resources and you post that.

Exhausting!

Reading comprehension fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people assuming this is just about being “too direct”?

Doesn’t sound that way. Sounds like this person is not listening to her staff, and annoying her peers.

Which is normal team formation… it’s the storming stage.

And many of those "stormers" don't survive. Not just this woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reality is if she was a white man she would be considered assertive.

We do judge women, especially black women, differently when they are assertive.

Men use direct language and women use collaborative language. When a woman uses direct language they are called aggressive.

She is right, your feedback is based on unconscious bias..

One, very informative post in its entirety. TY.
Two, isn't her reaction also a form of unconscious bias? "You are saying these things to me because I am a woman, and I am black, ergo, you are racist."

It feels to me that OP is trying hard to be aware of her unconscious bias. And New Hire is plowing through with You just don't like the way I am doing things because I am assertive, I am a woman and I am black.

Two way street.

FWIW, throughout time, the way to change perception is to get people on board before bringing down the hammer of change in an org. And while people always use the example of an assertive white male, the white males that I know have succeeded have made believers out of the people who follow him and do what he wants, far more than the hammers.

No. Nobody said anybody was racist.

When women get reviews they are consistently told they are too aggressive when they aren’t but they are being direct. That is unconscious bias.

There are just basic things you don’t “step in” when giving feedback… you don’t say “you are aggressive “ you don’t say “smile more”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people assuming this is just about being “too direct”?

Doesn’t sound that way. Sounds like this person is not listening to her staff, and annoying her peers.

Which is normal team formation… it’s the storming stage.

And many of those "stormers" don't survive. Not just this woman.

Nobody is storming, OMFG, are any of you managers.

Storming doesn’t mean what you think it means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any black folks out here on this board with suggestions?

This.

I’m Black and am not here to fix your problems.

So don't post. No one's making you do anything. OP is asking for help. You don't have to give it.

It’s not difficult to read and educate yourself. It’s not the job of black or old to educate white people. It’s exhausting, they’d literally be educating 24x7.

We have enough resources that we can’t expect black peoples to constantly educate.

I'm sorry, this "it's not my job to educate you" business is such crap. What exactly is your theory of change?

We're all in this together. This country. If your attitude towards well-meaning people asking for help understanding oppression is "f* off, it's not my job to educate you," guess what? Things ain't gonna change. Things change when people show empathy and share experiences and perspectives. Going off in a huff just reinforces stereotypes and fosters ill will. It may make you feel better, but it makes the world worse.

You can’t just sit in your ignorance and ask for a free education.

Have you read books on the subject, watch documentaries? And have question. What are they?

Asking for a full ass education because you are too lazy to learn on your own shows me you don’t really GAF so why waste my time if it’s gonna slide off your back.

Start with White Fragility (to understand your current feelings), check out the 13th that’s a fun one.

DP. I don't expect you to educate me, but don't expect me to buy into all your BS, then.

And there we go… you’ve already made up your mind and seeing your own bias isn’t even in the cards.

Sad, you said you want an education then I give you resources and you post that.

Exhausting!

Reading comprehension fail.

Yes you do, it’s okay try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any black folks out here on this board with suggestions?

This.

I’m Black and am not here to fix your problems.

So don't post. No one's making you do anything. OP is asking for help. You don't have to give it.

It’s not difficult to read and educate yourself. It’s not the job of black or old to educate white people. It’s exhausting, they’d literally be educating 24x7.

We have enough resources that we can’t expect black peoples to constantly educate.

I'm sorry, this "it's not my job to educate you" business is such crap. What exactly is your theory of change?

We're all in this together. This country. If your attitude towards well-meaning people asking for help understanding oppression is "f* off, it's not my job to educate you," guess what? Things ain't gonna change. Things change when people show empathy and share experiences and perspectives. Going off in a huff just reinforces stereotypes and fosters ill will. It may make you feel better, but it makes the world worse.

You can’t just sit in your ignorance and ask for a free education.

Have you read books on the subject, watch documentaries? And have question. What are they?

Asking for a full ass education because you are too lazy to learn on your own shows me you don’t really GAF so why waste my time if it’s gonna slide off your back.

Start with White Fragility (to understand your current feelings), check out the 13th that’s a fun one.

DP. I don't expect you to educate me, but don't expect me to buy into all your BS, then.

And there we go… you’ve already made up your mind and seeing your own bias isn’t even in the cards.

Sad, you said you want an education then I give you resources and you post that.

Exhausting!

But what you are "teaching" is not fact. It is opinion. There may be "research" behind it, but you can "prove" anything. Bias. Everyone has it. Everyone will jump through hoops to prove their point.

Those throwing out unconscious bias and racism as the cause of everything are mired in their own unconscious bias.

That isn't to say that I don't believe racism is real. It is. Unconscious bias is real. It's how the brain works. But to not recognize it in ourselves is "exhausting" coming from all of us.

Nobody said racism.

It’s weird you heard that in your head even though it was never said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any black folks out here on this board with suggestions?

This.

I’m Black and am not here to fix your problems.

So don't post. No one's making you do anything. OP is asking for help. You don't have to give it.

It’s not difficult to read and educate yourself. It’s not the job of black or old to educate white people. It’s exhausting, they’d literally be educating 24x7.

We have enough resources that we can’t expect black peoples to constantly educate.

I'm sorry, this "it's not my job to educate you" business is such crap. What exactly is your theory of change?

We're all in this together. This country. If your attitude towards well-meaning people asking for help understanding oppression is "f* off, it's not my job to educate you," guess what? Things ain't gonna change. Things change when people show empathy and share experiences and perspectives. Going off in a huff just reinforces stereotypes and fosters ill will. It may make you feel better, but it makes the world worse.

You can’t just sit in your ignorance and ask for a free education.

Have you read books on the subject, watch documentaries? And have question. What are they?

Asking for a full ass education because you are too lazy to learn on your own shows me you don’t really GAF so why waste my time if it’s gonna slide off your back.

Start with White Fragility (to understand your current feelings), check out the 13th that’s a fun one.

DP. I don't expect you to educate me, but don't expect me to buy into all your BS, then.

And there we go… you’ve already made up your mind and seeing your own bias isn’t even in the cards.

Sad, you said you want an education then I give you resources and you post that.

Exhausting!

But what you are "teaching" is not fact. It is opinion. There may be "research" behind it, but you can "prove" anything. Bias. Everyone has it. Everyone will jump through hoops to prove their point.

Those throwing out unconscious bias and racism as the cause of everything are mired in their own unconscious bias.

That isn't to say that I don't believe racism is real. It is. Unconscious bias is real. It's how the brain works. But to not recognize it in ourselves is "exhausting" coming from all of us.

Nobody said racism.

It’s weird you heard that in your head even though it was never said.

It's so weird that anyone would think "implicit bias about a black woman" had to do with racism. No clue where anyone got that impression at all. A real mystery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any black folks out here on this board with suggestions?

This.

I’m Black and am not here to fix your problems.

So don't post. No one's making you do anything. OP is asking for help. You don't have to give it.

It’s not difficult to read and educate yourself. It’s not the job of black or old to educate white people. It’s exhausting, they’d literally be educating 24x7.

We have enough resources that we can’t expect black peoples to constantly educate.

I'm sorry, this "it's not my job to educate you" business is such crap. What exactly is your theory of change?

We're all in this together. This country. If your attitude towards well-meaning people asking for help understanding oppression is "f* off, it's not my job to educate you," guess what? Things ain't gonna change. Things change when people show empathy and share experiences and perspectives. Going off in a huff just reinforces stereotypes and fosters ill will. It may make you feel better, but it makes the world worse.

You can’t just sit in your ignorance and ask for a free education.

Have you read books on the subject, watch documentaries? And have question. What are they?

Asking for a full ass education because you are too lazy to learn on your own shows me you don’t really GAF so why waste my time if it’s gonna slide off your back.

Start with White Fragility (to understand your current feelings), check out the 13th that’s a fun one.

DP. I don't expect you to educate me, but don't expect me to buy into all your BS, then.

And there we go… you’ve already made up your mind and seeing your own bias isn’t even in the cards.

Sad, you said you want an education then I give you resources and you post that.

Exhausting!

But what you are "teaching" is not fact. It is opinion. There may be "research" behind it, but you can "prove" anything. Bias. Everyone has it. Everyone will jump through hoops to prove their point.

Those throwing out unconscious bias and racism as the cause of everything are mired in their own unconscious bias.

That isn't to say that I don't believe racism is real. It is. Unconscious bias is real. It's how the brain works. But to not recognize it in ourselves is "exhausting" coming from all of us.

Nobody said racism.

It’s weird you heard that in your head even though it was never said.

It's so weird that anyone would think "implicit bias about a black woman" had to do with racism. No clue where anyone got that impression at all. A real mystery.

It’s not the same. Sorry bub.

SMFH we have to work with people this stupid.

[Anonymous]

There are good leaders and bad leaders.

There are qualities and behaviors that both objectively exhibit.

Is the work getting done? Is the leader inspiring confidence and trust? Are their employees happy?

No?

Then it’s the leaders job to fix it. Why should your company suffer because you hired an inflexible leader with no humility? That is what it sounds like at least. You don’t storm the castle and then get to say everyone’s just mad at you because of how you look.

[Anonymous]

Talk to HR let them know you have a hostile black women who is already claiming discrimination, they will handle it from here.

[Anonymous]

Compile the complaints. Put her on a pip and fire her. It will never get better

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please reflect hard on this. What would the reactions be to this person if they were a white man who was doing the exact things she was doing?

In most situations, a white man would 'get away' with the same behaviors because he would be less likely to be questioned, even if he made people uncomfortable and resentful.

This is OP. I have had virtually the same conversations with multiple white males. That's a huge part of my job: dealing with obnoxious people who treat others badly, and trying to find tactful ways to communicate to them that this is not okay. I completely agree that white men often get a pass for behavior that is considered abrasive in women, and especially in black women. But in this particular case, I really don't think that is what is going on. What she's doing is actually pretty egregious.

So tell her that. "I want you to know I hear what you are saying, and I have considered it, but in this instance you are off-base. I have had the same conversation with x number of people before, many of whom were white males (or females or whatever). Specifically, here are the issues I am seeing which are not just "behavior" but actual violations of our policy ...."

No. No. No.

Holy cow you stepped in it

I hear what you are saying is fine… the rest is unbelievably off base.

I hear what you’re saying and you’re right I’m sure you are dealing with a ton of bias. We need to find a way to get the work done despite the teams inability to receive your message.

I’d talk about how she needs to empower her staff to make their own decisions and she shouldn’t change set policy until she talks to you or has at least been there 6 months.

I would consult with legal before saying this. Sounds like you’re setting the company up for a lawsuit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are good leaders and bad leaders.

There are qualities and behaviors that both objectively exhibit.

Is the work getting done? Is the leader inspiring confidence and trust? Are their employees happy?

No?

Then it’s the leaders job to fix it. Why should your company suffer because you hired an inflexible leader with no humility? That is what it sounds like at least. You don’t storm the castle and then get to say everyone’s just mad at you because of how you look.

Isn't OP the leader and the employee a manager?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please reflect hard on this. What would the reactions be to this person if they were a white man who was doing the exact things she was doing?

In most situations, a white man would 'get away' with the same behaviors because he would be less likely to be questioned, even if he made people uncomfortable and resentful.

This is OP. I have had virtually the same conversations with multiple white males. That's a huge part of my job: dealing with obnoxious people who treat others badly, and trying to find tactful ways to communicate to them that this is not okay. I completely agree that white men often get a pass for behavior that is considered abrasive in women, and especially in black women. But in this particular case, I really don't think that is what is going on. What she's doing is actually pretty egregious.

So tell her that. "I want you to know I hear what you are saying, and I have considered it, but in this instance you are off-base. I have had the same conversation with x number of people before, many of whom were white males (or females or whatever). Specifically, here are the issues I am seeing which are not just "behavior" but actual violations of our policy ...."

No. No. No.

Holy cow you stepped in it

I hear what you are saying is fine… the rest is unbelievably off base.

I hear what you’re saying and you’re right I’m sure you are dealing with a ton of bias. We need to find a way to get the work done despite the teams inability to receive your message.

I’d talk about how she needs to empower her staff to make their own decisions and she shouldn’t change set policy until she talks to you or has at least been there 6 months.

I would consult with legal before saying this. Sounds like you’re setting the company up for a lawsuit.