Christian Zionism- please explain it to me

[Anonymous]

I'm no expert on Evangelical Christians, but I think this thread is painting them with a broad brush. I'd guess there is much more variation than is depicted here.

Also I'm Jewish and, while I only know a handful of evangelicals, none has ever tried to convert me. I also don't know any Jewish people who are worried about this Armageddon belief (no idea if it's widespread) or even care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

+1 well summarized. It’s the only reason evangelical Christians are at all interested in what goes on in Israel.

Is this really the only reason though? Don’t you think most of these types of people find Muslims more foreign and less our kind of people than Jews? It’s not strictly true but most people think of Jewish Israeli as basically European. Judeo-Christian culture is a thing. Most of the Bible is the Torah. Christo-Islamic is not. I don’t think the affinity is all about the rapture.

This is very far left, extreme progressive idea to convince people of color in the United States to align with the Palestinian cause. It is faulty however, because middle easterners are considered white, and evangelicals are not thinking about Israelis enough to come to the conclusion that they are European.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Evangelicalism has an anti Semitic end of days scripture about Israel having to belong to the Jews in order for Jesus to come back and then kill all the Jews and others (Muslims?) that don’t accept him as lord and savior ?

It’s to bring the end of days and the Messiah- something like that in the Book of Revelations . Interestingly, There is also an ultra Orthodox Jewish group that also objects to secular Zionism/Israel’s creation because they believe Jews aren’t supposed to be in Israel tilll the Messiah comes. Some settlers even move and justify going to the West Bank with this belief
That they can’t be in Israel until The Messiah comes.

Muslims believe like Christians that Jesus will come back but don’t necessarily say whether the land will Belong to Arabs and Jews although the Quran does sometimes praise and other times criticize the “children of Israel”

OK, I am convinced, we Christian need to hate Jews alongside with you. Thank you for the education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Are the Jews aware of this plan?

As a naive college student, I was briefly a leader in a campus chapter of a national Zionist student organization. I stopped being a Zionist

1. Because I studied Middle East history, and

2. Because I had a long talk with an IDF official who described working closely on political stuff with Christian Evangelicals, completely aware they they thought we Jews would burn in hell after being wiped out in the rapture.

Wait this is confusing, the evangelicals told the IDF official this? Why would an "evangelical" participate in such a self-sabatoging conversation. Or do you think evangelicals think this, and you are surprised, given your assumption, that an IDF offical would work with evangelicals, because you assume the IDF official had the same assumption as you?

[Anonymous]

I remember a lot of my Jewish friends were considering aligning with evangelical conservatives when Obama was running because they thought he was Muslim. I pointed out that I had never met an evangelical that spent much time supporting jews or having interest in them but they had no interest in listening. I assume the message was clearer after Trump was elected and Charlottesville.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember a lot of my Jewish friends were considering aligning with evangelical conservatives when Obama was running because they thought he was Muslim. I pointed out that I had never met an evangelical that spent much time supporting jews or having interest in them but they had no interest in listening. I assume the message was clearer after Trump was elected and Charlottesville.

Oh please, you did not have a lot of Jewish friends who thought Obama was Muslim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Are the Jews aware of this plan?

As a naive college student, I was briefly a leader in a campus chapter of a national Zionist student organization. I stopped being a Zionist

1. Because I studied Middle East history, and

2. Because I had a long talk with an IDF official who described working closely on political stuff with Christian Evangelicals, completely aware they they thought we Jews would burn in hell after being wiped out in the rapture.

Wait this is confusing, the evangelicals told the IDF official this? Why would an "evangelical" participate in such a self-sabatoging conversation. Or do you think evangelicals think this, and you are surprised, given your assumption, that an IDF offical would work with evangelicals, because you assume the IDF official had the same assumption as you?

So a couple of things:

- The notion that everyone who doesn’t accept Jesus as their savior is going to hell (including the Jews) is very mainstream in the evangelical movement. Preachers like John Hager (a prominent Christian Zionist) are very clear about this. I’ve been told multiple times that I need to be saved or I’m going to hell.

- I said to the IDF guy “You know these guys think we’re all going to hell, right?” To which he responded something like “Who gives a f—- what these idiots think, they support us now.”

- Again, the really disturbing part of this conversation wasn’t even this — it was when he went on to tell me an anecdote about meeting with representatives of an explicitly anti-Semitic political organization to discuss cooperation. He wasn’t very clear about who, but I recall him telling me that he told them they were “A bunch of F——ing anti-Semites” and they responded by telling him what they thought was bad about Jews in the US (like all the traditional anti-Semitic tropes). It was really appalling to find out that this guy was meeting people like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember a lot of my Jewish friends were considering aligning with evangelical conservatives when Obama was running because they thought he was Muslim. I pointed out that I had never met an evangelical that spent much time supporting jews or having interest in them but they had no interest in listening. I assume the message was clearer after Trump was elected and Charlottesville.

Total troll fail. I’m sure there are Jews who opposed Obama (my family and all the Jews I know are Democrats but whatever ), but exactly zero Jews believed that Obama was a Muslim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

+1 well summarized. It’s the only reason evangelical Christians are at all interested in what goes on in Israel.

Is this really the only reason though? Don’t you think most of these types of people find Muslims more foreign and less our kind of people than Jews? It’s not strictly true but most people think of Jewish Israeli as basically European. Judeo-Christian culture is a thing. Most of the Bible is the Torah. Christo-Islamic is not. I don’t think the affinity is all about the rapture.

This is very far left, extreme progressive idea to convince people of color in the United States to align with the Palestinian cause. It is faulty however, because middle easterners are considered white, and evangelicals are not thinking about Israelis enough to come to the conclusion that they are European.

I disagree. Evangelicals love talking about “Judeo-Christian culture/value/whatever.” They do see Israel as Western and whiter/more European. It doesn’t matter that Arabs technically check the white box on the census - they aren’t “Western”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

+1 well summarized. It’s the only reason evangelical Christians are at all interested in what goes on in Israel.

Is this really the only reason though? Don’t you think most of these types of people find Muslims more foreign and less our kind of people than Jews? It’s not strictly true but most people think of Jewish Israeli as basically European. Judeo-Christian culture is a thing. Most of the Bible is the Torah. Christo-Islamic is not. I don’t think the affinity is all about the rapture.

This is very far left, extreme progressive idea to convince people of color in the United States to align with the Palestinian cause. It is faulty however, because middle easterners are considered white, and evangelicals are not thinking about Israelis enough to come to the conclusion that they are European.

I disagree. Evangelicals love talking about “Judeo-Christian culture/value/whatever.” They do see Israel as Western and whiter/more European. It doesn’t matter that Arabs technically check the white box on the census - they aren’t “Western”

Even if what you say is true (I am not convinced), doesn't cancel out that post you are replying to is true. I know you are not convinced by my response. So all of us are just stereotyping and wasting time. Time for dinner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember a lot of my Jewish friends were considering aligning with evangelical conservatives when Obama was running because they thought he was Muslim. I pointed out that I had never met an evangelical that spent much time supporting jews or having interest in them but they had no interest in listening. I assume the message was clearer after Trump was elected and Charlottesville.

Oh please, you did not have a lot of Jewish friends who thought Obama was Muslim.

I had a lot of friends who thought that he would not support Israel very strongly. Maybe there were other reasons, but these were hardcore liberals. It was weird to see them align with evangelicals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

+1 well summarized. It’s the only reason evangelical Christians are at all interested in what goes on in Israel.

Is this really the only reason though? Don’t you think most of these types of people find Muslims more foreign and less our kind of people than Jews? It’s not strictly true but most people think of Jewish Israeli as basically European. Judeo-Christian culture is a thing. Most of the Bible is the Torah. Christo-Islamic is not. I don’t think the affinity is all about the rapture.

This is very far left, extreme progressive idea to convince people of color in the United States to align with the Palestinian cause. It is faulty however, because middle easterners are considered white, and evangelicals are not thinking about Israelis enough to come to the conclusion that they are European.

I disagree. Evangelicals love talking about “Judeo-Christian culture/value/whatever.” They do see Israel as Western and whiter/more European. It doesn’t matter that Arabs technically check the white box on the census - they aren’t “Western”

Even if what you say is true (I am not convinced), doesn't cancel out that post you are replying to is true. I know you are not convinced by my response. So all of us are just stereotyping and wasting time. Time for dinner.

The post I was replying to was going on a tangent with the point about the far left trying to convince POC to side with Palestinians. I don’t even disagree with that. I was trying to get back to the actual point of the thread - explaining Christian Zionism and the affinity between Evangelicals and Israelis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Are the Jews aware of this plan?

As a naive college student, I was briefly a leader in a campus chapter of a national Zionist student organization. I stopped being a Zionist

1. Because I studied Middle East history, and

2. Because I had a long talk with an IDF official who described working closely on political stuff with Christian Evangelicals, completely aware they they thought we Jews would burn in hell after being wiped out in the rapture.

Wait this is confusing, the evangelicals told the IDF official this? Why would an "evangelical" participate in such a self-sabatoging conversation. Or do you think evangelicals think this, and you are surprised, given your assumption, that an IDF offical would work with evangelicals, because you assume the IDF official had the same assumption as you?

So a couple of things:

- The notion that everyone who doesn’t accept Jesus as their savior is going to hell (including the Jews) is very mainstream in the evangelical movement. Preachers like John Hager (a prominent Christian Zionist) are very clear about this. I’ve been told multiple times that I need to be saved or I’m going to hell.

- I said to the IDF guy “You know these guys think we’re all going to hell, right?” To which he responded something like “Who gives a f—- what these idiots think, they support us now.”

- Again, the really disturbing part of this conversation wasn’t even this — it was when he went on to tell me an anecdote about meeting with representatives of an explicitly anti-Semitic political organization to discuss cooperation. He wasn’t very clear about who, but I recall him telling me that he told them they were “A bunch of F——ing anti-Semites” and they responded by telling him what they thought was bad about Jews in the US (like all the traditional anti-Semitic tropes). It was really appalling to find out that this guy was meeting people like that.

It sounds like you changed your worldview based on a conversation with one person in the IDF which clashed with your idealism. The world of global politics and alliances is practical. The U.S. has strategic alliances with many countries whose citizens don't like us very much. Biden just met with Xi. And so on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m an Arab American Christian and don’t understand the logic behind Christian Zionism. Is it based on the book of revelation - which most Catholic & Orthodox Christians believe it’s more symbolic in nature but Evangelicals seem to interpret it more concretely ?

Is it true that Evangelicals are justifying the killing of thousands of innocent civilians in Gaza because Christ’s second coming can only happen if all the Jews come back to Israel?

I’m asking a genuine question as I’m perplexed about all the support Israel gets from Evangelicals Christians in the US, which I have not seen from Christians in any other country.

It is crazy. I’m still trying to understand why Evangelical Christians believe it’s ok to keep funding an evil depopulation globalist named NETANYAHU.

Someone please explain this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an Arab American Christian and don’t understand the logic behind Christian Zionism. Is it based on the book of revelation - which most Catholic & Orthodox Christians believe it’s more symbolic in nature but Evangelicals seem to interpret it more concretely ?

Is it true that Evangelicals are justifying the killing of thousands of innocent civilians in Gaza because Christ’s second coming can only happen if all the Jews come back to Israel?

I’m asking a genuine question as I’m perplexed about all the support Israel gets from Evangelicals Christians in the US, which I have not seen from Christians in any other country.

It is crazy. I’m still trying to understand why Evangelical Christians believe it’s ok to keep funding an evil depopulation globalist named NETANYAHU.

Someone please explain this.

It's a misidentification of the current secular ethnostate, which named itself Israel, with the historical Old Testament nation of Israel. It is based in a modernist (late 19th, early 20th century) take on scripture, not a historical one. As recently as Chesterton, it was admitted that Zionism (i.e., send the Jews to Palestine) was the racist take, not the other way around. Anyway, historically:
-Israel was a person (the renaming of Jacob in Genesis)
-Israel was then a nation (the descendants of Jacob)
-Israel was then fully realized in one person, Jesus Christ (read Romans 9, Galatians 3)
-All who are in Christ are in Israel (same ref.)

Some falsely call this "replacement" theology. It is really just the continuity of God's people throughout history, with the ethnic barrier to Gentiles being removed in Christ.