Christian Zionism- please explain it to me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Are the Jews aware of this plan?

Lapsed Lutheran here:
My wife grew up conservative Jewish. She was not aware of this until I told her after we got married. It somehow came up in conversation. I think she assumed that Christians who are “really into Israel” are so because of the historical setting. While that is true for more traditional denominations, I had to explain that Evangelicals are their own breed of crazy.

There are rightwing Jews who think they are using the gullible Evangelicals to their own ends. They don’t care what they think, because Evangelicals are suckers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thank you. Is this what’s in the book of revelation verbatim ? Or is this how they interpret it?

You know I’ve tried to wade through Revelations and I just can’t. But that is what is accepted as truth among fundies and evangelicals (many of whom haven’t read the Bible at all). The Jewish people have to be there for the End Times.

The other pillar of this is a passage you will be familiar with, depending on which version of the Bible you grew up with: Genesis 1:26, which basically says that humans are to have dominion over the earth. In the ‘vangie reading, this is taken to mean that we can do whatever we want and it has led to the belief that to bring about the end times, we first have to destroy the earth, which is why they oppose clean air, water, soil, and why they don’t care if every species on the planet except us and the food we need to grow goes extinct.

Christians like that would be a thousand million times happier and better people if they understood what Jesus meant when he said “the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” It’s here and you can have it if we’re kind and caring. That’s it. That’s what Jesus wanted. Make Heaven happen on earth.

Woah.

Jew here. I can guarantee you that NO one thinks the Garden of Eden was in Israel. I've heard Sudan (Nile?) and Southern Iraq.

And Adam/Eve were NOT Jewish. The first Jews were Abraham & Sarah and they didn't have laws of Kashrut, etc (modern laws). Laws didn't exist before Moses. And the Temple didn't exist until Solomon (David's son). Ad modern Jews are nothing like the "Temple" Jews.

So putting all the Jews back to Israel because of the Garden of Eden/Genesis makes NO sense on so many levels.

I am guessing that it is because Jesus was Jewish??? Jesus was in Israel??? Jesus didn't leave Israel??? So since Jesus died in Israel, all Jews should die in Israel to be with Jesus?

I honestly have no idea.

[Anonymous]

Would love an actual evangelical Christian to come on here and tell us if this is true. I thought Christians who loved Israel just loved it because of Jesus living there and Jesus being Jewish (though obviously historically that didn’t stop Christian persecution of Jews).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m an Arab American Christian and don’t understand the logic behind Christian Zionism. Is it based on the book of revelation - which most Catholic & Orthodox Christians believe it’s more symbolic in nature but Evangelicals seem to interpret it more concretely ?

Is it true that Evangelicals are justifying the killing of thousands of innocent civilians in Gaza because Christ’s second coming can only happen if all the Jews come back to Israel?

I’m asking a genuine question as I’m perplexed about all the support Israel gets from Evangelicals Christians in the US, which I have not seen from Christians in any other country.

Evangelical Christianity remains one of the few topics about which it remains permissible, and possibly even praiseworthy, for a Jewish liberal to know nothing. Take evangelical attitudes toward Israel. Almost every time the subject comes up, someone will explain that Christian Zionism conceals, under a cloak of philo-Semitism, a nefarious agenda. Christian Zionists support Israel, supposedly, to hasten the end-times, when, as Bible professor Candida Moss writes, “Jews must convert or die.” Political scientist Elizabeth Oldmixon explains that evangelicals are part of “movement in Christianity that’s as old as Christianity itself,” and want to hasten “a millennium in the future,” in which “the Jews, will convert” or be damned.

This narrative is very popular with liberal and leftist Jews. Benjamin Koatz writes of Christians United For Israel’s “esoteric anti-Semitism” and that Christian Zionists believe Jews “will be prodded into conversion by the horrors of anti-Semitism… [or] God will inspire revelation in our hearts at the last moment, allowing us to proceed willingly into rapture.” The same logic underlies Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb’s article, “Anti-Semitism Behind the Christian Zionist Lobby.”

Liberals, and especially liberal Jews, enjoy this story, which allows us to score points against our more conservative co-religionists. The only trouble is that it isn’t true. (Even some basic statistics can be surprising, like that “nine out of ten” American evangelicals reject end-time prophecies involving Jewish control of the Holy Land.) As Daniel G. Hummel documents in his new book, “Covenant Brothers: Evangelicals, Jews, and U.S.-Israeli Relations,” Christian Zionism’s history reveals that the movement is “less about apocalyptic theology or evangelism” than about “mutual and covenantal solidarity.” Through telling the story of Christian Zionism in intricate, narrative detail and paying attention to the splits and fissures within American Christianity, Hummel dismantles virtually every part of the familiar story. Christian Zionism isn’t age-old; its founders were innovating, largely in response to the Holocaust. Christian Zionists do not secretly want to convert Jews; in fact many argue vociferously against missionizing, flirting with the boundaries of Christian orthodoxy in the process. Nor is the movement fundamentally apocalyptic: end-time prophecies motivate some believers, but by no means the majority. Finally, Christian Zionism isn’t even entirely Christian, since it began with interfaith dialogue and was carefully cultivated by the Israeli government.

https://forward.com/culture/430251/why-everything-you-think-you-know-about-christian-zionism-is-wrong/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please get the CITE for this? From Bible or wherever?

I have heard something similar too -- I am Jewish and I have had Christian friends tell me that they get "extra" points if they convert a Jew. I don't get that either.

Really? What denomination were your Christian friends who got “points” for converting Jewish people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thank you. Is this what’s in the book of revelation verbatim ? Or is this how they interpret it?

You know I’ve tried to wade through Revelations and I just can’t. But that is what is accepted as truth among fundies and evangelicals (many of whom haven’t read the Bible at all). The Jewish people have to be there for the End Times.

The other pillar of this is a passage you will be familiar with, depending on which version of the Bible you grew up with: Genesis 1:26, which basically says that humans are to have dominion over the earth. In the ‘vangie reading, this is taken to mean that we can do whatever we want and it has led to the belief that to bring about the end times, we first have to destroy the earth, which is why they oppose clean air, water, soil, and why they don’t care if every species on the planet except us and the food we need to grow goes extinct.

Christians like that would be a thousand million times happier and better people if they understood what Jesus meant when he said “the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” It’s here and you can have it if we’re kind and caring. That’s it. That’s what Jesus wanted. Make Heaven happen on earth.

So you are the spokesperson for “fundies” and evangelicals?

You cannot possibly know what people think about these things, and have no right to speak for anyone but yourself.

Another awful thread attacking Christianity, hooray.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

+1 well summarized. It’s the only reason evangelical Christians are at all interested in what goes on in Israel.

That is not true. Evangelical Christians consider themselves very close to Jewish people. Jesus- and we- descend from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thank you. Is this what’s in the book of revelation verbatim ? Or is this how they interpret it?

You know I’ve tried to wade through Revelations and I just can’t. But that is what is accepted as truth among fundies and evangelicals (many of whom haven’t read the Bible at all). The Jewish people have to be there for the End Times.

The other pillar of this is a passage you will be familiar with, depending on which version of the Bible you grew up with: Genesis 1:26, which basically says that humans are to have dominion over the earth. In the ‘vangie reading, this is taken to mean that we can do whatever we want and it has led to the belief that to bring about the end times, we first have to destroy the earth, which is why they oppose clean air, water, soil, and why they don’t care if every species on the planet except us and the food we need to grow goes extinct.

Christians like that would be a thousand million times happier and better people if they understood what Jesus meant when he said “the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” It’s here and you can have it if we’re kind and caring. That’s it. That’s what Jesus wanted. Make Heaven happen on earth.

Don’t you think it’s a little presumptuous of you to admit to not reading or understanding the Book of Revelations, but then pretending to know everything about “End Times?” I think if someone admits they haven’t read and at least tried to understand the last book of the Bible, they probably don’t know what they’re talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Are the Jews aware of this plan?

Lapsed Lutheran here:
My wife grew up conservative Jewish. She was not aware of this until I told her after we got married. It somehow came up in conversation. I think she assumed that Christians who are “really into Israel” are so because of the historical setting. While that is true for more traditional denominations, I had to explain that Evangelicals are their own breed of crazy.

There are rightwing Jews who think they are using the gullible Evangelicals to their own ends. They don’t care what they think, because Evangelicals are suckers.

Do you have any idea how immature and offensive you sound, “lapsed Lutheran?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Are the Jews aware of this plan?

Lapsed Lutheran here:
My wife grew up conservative Jewish. She was not aware of this until I told her after we got married. It somehow came up in conversation. I think she assumed that Christians who are “really into Israel” are so because of the historical setting. While that is true for more traditional denominations, I had to explain that Evangelicals are their own breed of crazy.

There are rightwing Jews who think they are using the gullible Evangelicals to their own ends. They don’t care what they think, because Evangelicals are suckers.

Do you have any idea how immature and offensive you sound, “lapsed Lutheran?”

+1 awful

[Anonymous]

Evangelicalism has an anti Semitic end of days scripture about Israel having to belong to the Jews in order for Jesus to come back and then kill all the Jews and others (Muslims?) that don’t accept him as lord and savior ?

It’s to bring the end of days and the Messiah- something like that in the Book of Revelations . Interestingly, There is also an ultra Orthodox Jewish group that also objects to secular Zionism/Israel’s creation because they believe Jews aren’t supposed to be in Israel tilll the Messiah comes. Some settlers even move and justify going to the West Bank with this belief
That they can’t be in Israel until The Messiah comes.

Muslims believe like Christians that Jesus will come back but don’t necessarily say whether the land will Belong to Arabs and Jews although the Quran does sometimes praise and other times criticize the “children of Israel”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Are the Jews aware of this plan?

Lapsed Lutheran here:
My wife grew up conservative Jewish. She was not aware of this until I told her after we got married. It somehow came up in conversation. I think she assumed that Christians who are “really into Israel” are so because of the historical setting. While that is true for more traditional denominations, I had to explain that Evangelicals are their own breed of crazy.

There are rightwing Jews who think they are using the gullible Evangelicals to their own ends. They don’t care what they think, because Evangelicals are suckers.

Martin Luther rolling in his grave

Everyone knows what Luther thought about Jews

Von den Juden und Ihren Lügen

Vom Schem Hamphoras und vom Geschlecht Christi

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thank you. Is this what’s in the book of revelation verbatim ? Or is this how they interpret it?

You know I’ve tried to wade through Revelations and I just can’t. But that is what is accepted as truth among fundies and evangelicals (many of whom haven’t read the Bible at all). The Jewish people have to be there for the End Times.

The other pillar of this is a passage you will be familiar with, depending on which version of the Bible you grew up with: Genesis 1:26, which basically says that humans are to have dominion over the earth. In the ‘vangie reading, this is taken to mean that we can do whatever we want and it has led to the belief that to bring about the end times, we first have to destroy the earth, which is why they oppose clean air, water, soil, and why they don’t care if every species on the planet except us and the food we need to grow goes extinct.

Christians like that would be a thousand million times happier and better people if they understood what Jesus meant when he said “the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” It’s here and you can have it if we’re kind and caring. That’s it. That’s what Jesus wanted. Make Heaven happen on earth.

Woah.

Jew here. I can guarantee you that NO one thinks the Garden of Eden was in Israel. I've heard Sudan (Nile?) and Southern Iraq.

And Adam/Eve were NOT Jewish. The first Jews were Abraham & Sarah and they didn't have laws of Kashrut, etc (modern laws). Laws didn't exist before Moses. And the Temple didn't exist until Solomon (David's son). Ad modern Jews are nothing like the "Temple" Jews.

So putting all the Jews back to Israel because of the Garden of Eden/Genesis makes NO sense on so many levels.

I am guessing that it is because Jesus was Jewish??? Jesus was in Israel??? Jesus didn't leave Israel??? So since Jesus died in Israel, all Jews should die in Israel to be with Jesus?

I honestly have no idea.

For many “Christians Zionists,” and particularly for popular evangelists with significant clout within the Republican Party, their support for Israel is rooted in its role in the supposed end times: Jesus’ return to Earth, a bloody final battle at Armageddon, and Jesus ruling the world from the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. In this scenario, war is not something to be avoided, but something inevitable, desired by God, and celebratory.

At the heart of Christian Zionism is not a love for Israel but rather Christian nationalism.

What happens to the Jews and Palestinians is, to put it very mildly, collateral damage. Christian Zionists are anticipating, and hoping for a war to end all wars, and a resulting Christian world that they claim will vanquish evil and bring peace. Only those who accept Jesus as their savior will benefit from these events that Christian Zionists claim the Bible predicts will happen. Nonbelievers — including Jews and Muslims — will not survive them.

[Anonymous]

People are grinding each other and their children and babies to bits daily in the Gaza War.

But this is the important stuff.

How many people posting in this thread are Christian Zionists?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People are grinding each other and their children and babies to bits daily in the Gaza War.

But this is the important stuff.

How many people posting in this thread are Christian Zionists?

A big reason of why this is happening is because our US government, which has a significant amount of Christian Zionists, is funding this horrendous war. You cannot separate Christian Zionism from the war in Gaza.