Christian Zionism- please explain it to me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an Arab American Christian and don’t understand the logic behind Christian Zionism. Is it based on the book of revelation - which most Catholic & Orthodox Christians believe it’s more symbolic in nature but Evangelicals seem to interpret it more concretely ?

Is it true that Evangelicals are justifying the killing of thousands of innocent civilians in Gaza because Christ’s second coming can only happen if all the Jews come back to Israel?

I’m asking a genuine question as I’m perplexed about all the support Israel gets from Evangelicals Christians in the US, which I have not seen from Christians in any other country.

It is crazy. I’m still trying to understand why Evangelical Christians believe it’s ok to keep funding an evil depopulation globalist named NETANYAHU.

Someone please explain this.

It's a misidentification of the current secular ethnostate, which named itself Israel, with the historical Old Testament nation of Israel. It is based in a modernist (late 19th, early 20th century) take on scripture, not a historical one. As recently as Chesterton, it was admitted that Zionism (i.e., send the Jews to Palestine) was the racist take, not the other way around. Anyway, historically:
-Israel was a person (the renaming of Jacob in Genesis)
-Israel was then a nation (the descendants of Jacob)
-Israel was then fully realized in one person, Jesus Christ (read Romans 9, Galatians 3)
-All who are in Christ are in Israel (same ref.)

Some falsely call this "replacement" theology. It is really just the continuity of God's people throughout history, with the ethnic barrier to Gentiles being removed in Christ.

… and this is why the earlier PP was right to think the IDF guys were crazy for working with the Christian Zionists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Are the Jews aware of this plan?

As a naive college student, I was briefly a leader in a campus chapter of a national Zionist student organization. I stopped being a Zionist

1. Because I studied Middle East history, and

2. Because I had a long talk with an IDF official who described working closely on political stuff with Christian Evangelicals, completely aware they they thought we Jews would burn in hell after being wiped out in the rapture.

Wait this is confusing, the evangelicals told the IDF official this? Why would an "evangelical" participate in such a self-sabatoging conversation. Or do you think evangelicals think this, and you are surprised, given your assumption, that an IDF offical would work with evangelicals, because you assume the IDF official had the same assumption as you?

So a couple of things:

- The notion that everyone who doesn’t accept Jesus as their savior is going to hell (including the Jews) is very mainstream in the evangelical movement. Preachers like John Hager (a prominent Christian Zionist) are very clear about this. I’ve been told multiple times that I need to be saved or I’m going to hell.

- I said to the IDF guy “You know these guys think we’re all going to hell, right?” To which he responded something like “Who gives a f—- what these idiots think, they support us now.”

- Again, the really disturbing part of this conversation wasn’t even this — it was when he went on to tell me an anecdote about meeting with representatives of an explicitly anti-Semitic political organization to discuss cooperation. He wasn’t very clear about who, but I recall him telling me that he told them they were “A bunch of F——ing anti-Semites” and they responded by telling him what they thought was bad about Jews in the US (like all the traditional anti-Semitic tropes). It was really appalling to find out that this guy was meeting people like that.

It sounds like you changed your worldview based on a conversation with one person in the IDF which clashed with your idealism. The world of global politics and alliances is practical. The U.S. has strategic alliances with many countries whose citizens don't like us very much. Biden just met with Xi. And so on.

No. It sounds like they changed their world view because they studied middle eastern history as they stated in their previous post. The idf conversation probably just solidified what they already knew.

[Anonymous]

Do you really want to know the views held by Evangelicals about the Jewish people? Look no further than the Nixon/Billy Graham tapes from 1972.

''I go and I keep friends with Mr. Rosenthal (A.M. Rosenthal) at The New York Times and people of that sort, you know. And all -- I mean, not all the Jews, but a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine, they swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I'm friendly with Israel. But they don't know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country. And I have no power, no way to handle them, but I would stand up if under proper circumstances.''

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Catholic Christians do not believe this. I don't know what Protestant Christians and Mormons believe, but assume they are aligned with what is posted above.

I went to Catholic school all my life, and this issue was specifically addressed in our religion class while we were doing a unit on the Holocaust in another class. According to the priest teaching the religion class, it was made clear in Vatican II that Jews can achieve salvation WITHOUT converting to Christianity. In the book of Romans in the bible, Paul talks about God's covenant with the Jewish people, which is unchanged and ongoing. Also, the way/why the Jews are promised and will achieve salvation is considered a "mystery" in the Catholic church, but it is real. I remember the priest telling us that "the Jews are God's special people." He was pretty clear about that. And God promised the land of Israel to the Jews in a bunch of places in the Old Testament; I remember this happened in Genesis (but there's other places too). The holy land was promised by God to the Jews as their home.

It's not a coincidence that JD Vance is adamantly Catholic. Megyn Kelly is vocal about her Catholic faith and so are other MAGAs. Here's a New York Post article about MAGA Catholics: https://nypost.com/2025/04/20/us-news/meet-americas-new-maga-catholics/

So, I don't know what Protestant Christians believe, but that's the Catholic perspective.

Disclaimer: I am not religious today.

[Anonymous]

Protestant Christians believe that the gospel must be preached in every tongue and tribe, so a lot of funds go into missions in Africa, a lot of effort into translating the bible, giving some forgotten people a written language.

The epistles, book of Hebrews: in Christ there is no Jew or Greek or Roman, no slave or free.

Jews are simply a side note, not the essence of the doctrine, just a backdrop to the gospels.
Simply a people who lost their position as the chosen people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Catholic Christians do not believe this. I don't know what Protestant Christians and Mormons believe, but assume they are aligned with what is posted above.

I went to Catholic school all my life, and this issue was specifically addressed in our religion class while we were doing a unit on the Holocaust in another class. According to the priest teaching the religion class, it was made clear in Vatican II that Jews can achieve salvation WITHOUT converting to Christianity. In the book of Romans in the bible, Paul talks about God's covenant with the Jewish people, which is unchanged and ongoing. Also, the way/why the Jews are promised and will achieve salvation is considered a "mystery" in the Catholic church, but it is real. I remember the priest telling us that "the Jews are God's special people." He was pretty clear about that. And God promised the land of Israel to the Jews in a bunch of places in the Old Testament; I remember this happened in Genesis (but there's other places too). The holy land was promised by God to the Jews as their home.

It's not a coincidence that JD Vance is adamantly Catholic. Megyn Kelly is vocal about her Catholic faith and so are other MAGAs. Here's a New York Post article about MAGA Catholics: https://nypost.com/2025/04/20/us-news/meet-americas-new-maga-catholics/

So, I don't know what Protestant Christians believe, but that's the Catholic perspective.

Disclaimer: I am not religious today.

I can see why you're no longer religious, with the above being an example of how the Catholic Church ties itself up in knots trying to align common sense with doctrine. It only matters that Jews are saved if you believe that stuff in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Catholic Christians do not believe this. I don't know what Protestant Christians and Mormons believe, but assume they are aligned with what is posted above.

I went to Catholic school all my life, and this issue was specifically addressed in our religion class while we were doing a unit on the Holocaust in another class. According to the priest teaching the religion class, it was made clear in Vatican II that Jews can achieve salvation WITHOUT converting to Christianity. In the book of Romans in the bible, Paul talks about God's covenant with the Jewish people, which is unchanged and ongoing. Also, the way/why the Jews are promised and will achieve salvation is considered a "mystery" in the Catholic church, but it is real. I remember the priest telling us that "the Jews are God's special people." He was pretty clear about that. And God promised the land of Israel to the Jews in a bunch of places in the Old Testament; I remember this happened in Genesis (but there's other places too). The holy land was promised by God to the Jews as their home.

It's not a coincidence that JD Vance is adamantly Catholic. Megyn Kelly is vocal about her Catholic faith and so are other MAGAs. Here's a New York Post article about MAGA Catholics: https://nypost.com/2025/04/20/us-news/meet-americas-new-maga-catholics/

So, I don't know what Protestant Christians believe, but that's the Catholic perspective.

Disclaimer: I am not religious today.

I can see why you're no longer religious, with the above being an example of how the Catholic Church ties itself up in knots trying to align common sense with doctrine. It only matters that Jews are saved if you believe that stuff in the first place.

As a Jew, I don’t care if the church thinks I can be saved — I’m just glad they’re no longer teaching that we killed Christ.

[Anonymous]

Organized religion is so damn stupid.
I believe in God, but this doctrine garbage is just hateful and exclusionary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Catholic Christians do not believe this. I don't know what Protestant Christians and Mormons believe, but assume they are aligned with what is posted above.

I went to Catholic school all my life, and this issue was specifically addressed in our religion class while we were doing a unit on the Holocaust in another class. According to the priest teaching the religion class, it was made clear in Vatican II that Jews can achieve salvation WITHOUT converting to Christianity. In the book of Romans in the bible, Paul talks about God's covenant with the Jewish people, which is unchanged and ongoing. Also, the way/why the Jews are promised and will achieve salvation is considered a "mystery" in the Catholic church, but it is real. I remember the priest telling us that "the Jews are God's special people." He was pretty clear about that. And God promised the land of Israel to the Jews in a bunch of places in the Old Testament; I remember this happened in Genesis (but there's other places too). The holy land was promised by God to the Jews as their home.

It's not a coincidence that JD Vance is adamantly Catholic. Megyn Kelly is vocal about her Catholic faith and so are other MAGAs. Here's a New York Post article about MAGA Catholics: https://nypost.com/2025/04/20/us-news/meet-americas-new-maga-catholics/

So, I don't know what Protestant Christians believe, but that's the Catholic perspective.

Disclaimer: I am not religious today.

I can see why you're no longer religious, with the above being an example of how the Catholic Church ties itself up in knots trying to align common sense with doctrine. It only matters that Jews are saved if you believe that stuff in the first place.

As a Jew, I don’t care if the church thinks I can be saved — I’m just glad they’re no longer teaching that we killed Christ.

As a Catholic, I never learned that the Jews killed Christ. But come to think of it, they were all Jews, weren't they? Including Jesus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you really want to know the views held by Evangelicals about the Jewish people? Look no further than the Nixon/Billy Graham tapes from 1972.

''I go and I keep friends with Mr. Rosenthal (A.M. Rosenthal) at The New York Times and people of that sort, you know. And all -- I mean, not all the Jews, but a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine, they swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I'm friendly with Israel. But they don't know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country. And I have no power, no way to handle them, but I would stand up if under proper circumstances.''

Who in the modern world or in the current evangelical circles cares about what Billy Graham said over 50 years ago?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Catholic Christians do not believe this. I don't know what Protestant Christians and Mormons believe, but assume they are aligned with what is posted above.

I went to Catholic school all my life, and this issue was specifically addressed in our religion class while we were doing a unit on the Holocaust in another class. According to the priest teaching the religion class, it was made clear in Vatican II that Jews can achieve salvation WITHOUT converting to Christianity. In the book of Romans in the bible, Paul talks about God's covenant with the Jewish people, which is unchanged and ongoing. Also, the way/why the Jews are promised and will achieve salvation is considered a "mystery" in the Catholic church, but it is real. I remember the priest telling us that "the Jews are God's special people." He was pretty clear about that. And God promised the land of Israel to the Jews in a bunch of places in the Old Testament; I remember this happened in Genesis (but there's other places too). The holy land was promised by God to the Jews as their home.

It's not a coincidence that JD Vance is adamantly Catholic. Megyn Kelly is vocal about her Catholic faith and so are other MAGAs. Here's a New York Post article about MAGA Catholics: https://nypost.com/2025/04/20/us-news/meet-americas-new-maga-catholics/

So, I don't know what Protestant Christians believe, but that's the Catholic perspective.

Disclaimer: I am not religious today.

I can see why you're no longer religious, with the above being an example of how the Catholic Church ties itself up in knots trying to align common sense with doctrine. It only matters that Jews are saved if you believe that stuff in the first place.

As a Jew, I don’t care if the church thinks I can be saved — I’m just glad they’re no longer teaching that we killed Christ.

As a Catholic, I never learned that the Jews killed Christ. But come to think of it, they were all Jews, weren't they? Including Jesus.

Yeah, I'm the poster above who went to Catholic school, and we were NEVER told that the Jews killed Jesus, or taught anything negative about Jews. We spent years in grade school learning about Moses and his people enslaved in Egypt, crossing the Red Sea, Abraham and Isaac, David, etc, etc. It was pretty clear that Jesus was one of these people, from the house of David, so Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Catholic Christians do not believe this. I don't know what Protestant Christians and Mormons believe, but assume they are aligned with what is posted above.

I went to Catholic school all my life, and this issue was specifically addressed in our religion class while we were doing a unit on the Holocaust in another class. According to the priest teaching the religion class, it was made clear in Vatican II that Jews can achieve salvation WITHOUT converting to Christianity. In the book of Romans in the bible, Paul talks about God's covenant with the Jewish people, which is unchanged and ongoing. Also, the way/why the Jews are promised and will achieve salvation is considered a "mystery" in the Catholic church, but it is real. I remember the priest telling us that "the Jews are God's special people." He was pretty clear about that. And God promised the land of Israel to the Jews in a bunch of places in the Old Testament; I remember this happened in Genesis (but there's other places too). The holy land was promised by God to the Jews as their home.

It's not a coincidence that JD Vance is adamantly Catholic. Megyn Kelly is vocal about her Catholic faith and so are other MAGAs. Here's a New York Post article about MAGA Catholics: https://nypost.com/2025/04/20/us-news/meet-americas-new-maga-catholics/

So, I don't know what Protestant Christians believe, but that's the Catholic perspective.

Disclaimer: I am not religious today.

I can see why you're no longer religious, with the above being an example of how the Catholic Church ties itself up in knots trying to align common sense with doctrine. It only matters that Jews are saved if you believe that stuff in the first place.

As a Jew, I don’t care if the church thinks I can be saved — I’m just glad they’re no longer teaching that we killed Christ.

As a Catholic, I never learned that the Jews killed Christ. But come to think of it, they were all Jews, weren't they? Including Jesus.

Me neither and by the way, Pontius Pilate wasn't Jewish -- he was Roman. There weren't any Christians yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Catholic Christians do not believe this. I don't know what Protestant Christians and Mormons believe, but assume they are aligned with what is posted above.

I went to Catholic school all my life, and this issue was specifically addressed in our religion class while we were doing a unit on the Holocaust in another class. According to the priest teaching the religion class, it was made clear in Vatican II that Jews can achieve salvation WITHOUT converting to Christianity. In the book of Romans in the bible, Paul talks about God's covenant with the Jewish people, which is unchanged and ongoing. Also, the way/why the Jews are promised and will achieve salvation is considered a "mystery" in the Catholic church, but it is real. I remember the priest telling us that "the Jews are God's special people." He was pretty clear about that. And God promised the land of Israel to the Jews in a bunch of places in the Old Testament; I remember this happened in Genesis (but there's other places too). The holy land was promised by God to the Jews as their home.

It's not a coincidence that JD Vance is adamantly Catholic. Megyn Kelly is vocal about her Catholic faith and so are other MAGAs. Here's a New York Post article about MAGA Catholics: https://nypost.com/2025/04/20/us-news/meet-americas-new-maga-catholics/

So, I don't know what Protestant Christians believe, but that's the Catholic perspective.

Disclaimer: I am not religious today.

I can see why you're no longer religious, with the above being an example of how the Catholic Church ties itself up in knots trying to align common sense with doctrine. It only matters that Jews are saved if you believe that stuff in the first place.

As a Jew, I don’t care if the church thinks I can be saved — I’m just glad they’re no longer teaching that we killed Christ.

As a Catholic, I never learned that the Jews killed Christ. But come to think of it, they were all Jews, weren't they? Including Jesus.

Me neither and by the way, Pontius Pilate wasn't Jewish -- he was Roman. There weren't any Christians yet.

Judas was Jewish, the high priest and the Sanhedrin was Jewish, his crime was to pretend to be divine and was judged to be put to death, Pontius Pilot was just a formality as they needed his permission

Read the gospels to see how events unfolded. All churches preach that.
According to doctrine it is irrelevant who you or anyone thinks is culpable since all the teachings arise from him rising from the dead