Please share your ideas for SOLUTIONS to the middle east crisis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Encourage secularization of the populace.

That has zero impact on property and political rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Encourage secularization of the populace.

Israelis are like 95% secular.
Next idea?

If that’s true, explain Netanyahu’s cabinet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right to return. Treat property rights the same way we treat property stolen during WWII. Israel brags about being a democracy, take them up on it- one person one vote

I asked before, what does the right to return mean? Who does it apply to?

Refugees registered by the UN. Fortunately lots of families kept their deeds, so recovering the houses they were forced out of should be easy

I foresee some problems with this, because the definition of refugee as it has been applied to Palestinians is different to the way it is applied generally. For example, the 1951 Refugee Convention says that once you have citizenship elsewhere, you can’t be a refugee. But under the UNRWA mandate, Palestinians can be citizens of another country and still be refugees, and can be 4 or 5 generations removed from the original refugee. Giving back property is going to be hard when the people living there now are highly unlikely to be the people who lived there in 1948. It seems that you’d be creating a new refugee crisis and a new theft of property if that happened. Also all of that ignores the way the state of Israel was created - by UN Resolution. The people living there now didn’t literally steal the land from Palestinians, the state was created in a way that may now seem wrong but at the time was a perfectly normal way to divide lands that were formerly parts of empires. See also Jordan, Lebanon, Pakistan, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Force the Arab countries to take the Palestinian population . Empty the country humanely. If they think they are too dangerous or undesirable then why are they supporting them. There is vast land and resources in the Arab countries. Exponentially more than in Israel.

That would be a crime against humanity. It's not happening.

NP. Following World War Two, millions of ethnic Germans throughout Eastern Europe, in communities that had existed for centuries, were ethnically cleansed by new liberated countries. They were given very little time nor warning to pack what they could carry and start walking west. Those who refused to leave their ancestral homes were simply executed.
No German today mourns for their lost homes in East or West Prussia, the Sudetenland, Silesia, etc. The victorious Allies declared the German people collectively guilty of starting the war and supported the right of those formerly occupied nations to rid themselves of Germans. To this day the German people accept this collective guilt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let the Middle East decide the outcome. If they want to go to war, have at it. The winner gets the spoils. Historically, thats how the world works

That's exactly what happened in 48 and 67.
A bunch of Arab countries attacked Israel and assumed they'd win. They didn't. Israel won and the whole world has been b-ching about it since.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Encourage secularization of the populace.

Israelis are like 95% secular.
Next idea?

If that’s true, explain Netanyahu’s cabinet

What's to explain?
Netanyahu himself is right wing and chose right wing people to work with him.

And FYI, right wing is not always synonymous with religious.

[Anonymous]

My question is to those of you with true expertise on the middle east. Can the leaders in the middle east ever truly accept Israel existing in any form-even a 2 state solution or do most want Israel eliminated? I saw an interview where an Israeli expert said according to her contacts in the moderate Arab world, most want Israel to eliminate Hamas. Is that true?

We are now finding out a lot of these Universities with explosions of antisemitism (may have) received undisclosed massive donations from places like Qatar. Is the true agenda to get the Jews out of the middle east completely?

[Anonymous]

There is no two state solution. It’s has been dead for 20 plus years. The only solution is a one state solution and everyone has a vote, a constitution with no state religion but all religions treated the same.

Also no dual citizenship. You have to burn the boats on the beach. You are either a citizen of Israel or you are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right to return. Treat property rights the same way we treat property stolen during WWII. Israel brags about being a democracy, take them up on it- one person one vote

I asked before, what does the right to return mean? Who does it apply to?

Refugees registered by the UN. Fortunately lots of families kept their deeds, so recovering the houses they were forced out of should be easy

I foresee some problems with this, because the definition of refugee as it has been applied to Palestinians is different to the way it is applied generally. For example, the 1951 Refugee Convention says that once you have citizenship elsewhere, you can’t be a refugee. But under the UNRWA mandate, Palestinians can be citizens of another country and still be refugees, and can be 4 or 5 generations removed from the original refugee. Giving back property is going to be hard when the people living there now are highly unlikely to be the people who lived there in 1948. It seems that you’d be creating a new refugee crisis and a new theft of property if that happened. Also all of that ignores the way the state of Israel was created - by UN Resolution. The people living there now didn’t literally steal the land from Palestinians, the state was created in a way that may now seem wrong but at the time was a perfectly normal way to divide lands that were formerly parts of empires. See also Jordan, Lebanon, Pakistan, etc.

Anything other than a right of return legitimizes ethnic cleansing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's always been the two state solution. But both sides have to believe in it.

Why is it the only option? A one state democracy can't be a Jewish state because Palestinians will equal or outnumber them. A one state solution without full democracy is Apartheid. Therefore the two state solution is all that is left.

Neither Netanyahu nor Hamas believes in it. We were making progress with the Oslo Accords and its opponents ruined it. Right wingers assassinated Yitzak Rabin and then they deliberately weakened Arafat and Fatah. Netanyahu liked Hamas because nobody could force him to negotiate with Hamas.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no two state solution. It’s has been dead for 20 plus years. The only solution is a one state solution and everyone has a vote, a constitution with no state religion but all religions treated the same.

Also no dual citizenship. You have to burn the boats on the beach. You are either a citizen of Israel or you are not.

What is the issue with dual citizenship? Why is that a threat?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right to return. Treat property rights the same way we treat property stolen during WWII. Israel brags about being a democracy, take them up on it- one person one vote

I asked before, what does the right to return mean? Who does it apply to?

Refugees registered by the UN. Fortunately lots of families kept their deeds, so recovering the houses they were forced out of should be easy

I foresee some problems with this, because the definition of refugee as it has been applied to Palestinians is different to the way it is applied generally. For example, the 1951 Refugee Convention says that once you have citizenship elsewhere, you can’t be a refugee. But under the UNRWA mandate, Palestinians can be citizens of another country and still be refugees, and can be 4 or 5 generations removed from the original refugee. Giving back property is going to be hard when the people living there now are highly unlikely to be the people who lived there in 1948. It seems that you’d be creating a new refugee crisis and a new theft of property if that happened. Also all of that ignores the way the state of Israel was created - by UN Resolution. The people living there now didn’t literally steal the land from Palestinians, the state was created in a way that may now seem wrong but at the time was a perfectly normal way to divide lands that were formerly parts of empires. See also Jordan, Lebanon, Pakistan, etc.

Anything other than a right of return legitimizes ethnic cleansing

What do you do when right of return is also ethnic cleansing? Two people can't live in the same house. So what is your solution to that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My question is to those of you with true expertise on the middle east. Can the leaders in the middle east ever truly accept Israel existing in any form-even a 2 state solution or do most want Israel eliminated? I saw an interview where an Israeli expert said according to her contacts in the moderate Arab world, most want Israel to eliminate Hamas. Is that true?

We are now finding out a lot of these Universities with explosions of antisemitism (may have) received undisclosed massive donations from places like Qatar. Is the true agenda to get the Jews out of the middle east completely?

No the other states in the region want Israel to accept the Palestinians back, treat them with human dignity and return their property or compensate for the property taken(fair market price). If this had been done 45 years ago there would be no Hamas or Hezbollah. It is a myth that all the states want to destroy Israel. It keep the status quo and relieve any moral accountability on the part of Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right to return. Treat property rights the same way we treat property stolen during WWII. Israel brags about being a democracy, take them up on it- one person one vote

I asked before, what does the right to return mean? Who does it apply to?

Refugees registered by the UN. Fortunately lots of families kept their deeds, so recovering the houses they were forced out of should be easy

I foresee some problems with this, because the definition of refugee as it has been applied to Palestinians is different to the way it is applied generally. For example, the 1951 Refugee Convention says that once you have citizenship elsewhere, you can’t be a refugee. But under the UNRWA mandate, Palestinians can be citizens of another country and still be refugees, and can be 4 or 5 generations removed from the original refugee. Giving back property is going to be hard when the people living there now are highly unlikely to be the people who lived there in 1948. It seems that you’d be creating a new refugee crisis and a new theft of property if that happened. Also all of that ignores the way the state of Israel was created - by UN Resolution. The people living there now didn’t literally steal the land from Palestinians, the state was created in a way that may now seem wrong but at the time was a perfectly normal way to divide lands that were formerly parts of empires. See also Jordan, Lebanon, Pakistan, etc.

Anything other than a right of return legitimizes ethnic cleansing

Around 800,000 Jews were expelled from countries in the Middle East and North Africa between 1920 and 1970. None of them are allowed back to those countries, and neither are their descendants. So I’m just not sure how it would actually work, or why it should be that every descendent of every Palestinian who was thrown out in 1948, wherever they live now, gets to come back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right to return. Treat property rights the same way we treat property stolen during WWII. Israel brags about being a democracy, take them up on it- one person one vote

I asked before, what does the right to return mean? Who does it apply to?

Refugees registered by the UN. Fortunately lots of families kept their deeds, so recovering the houses they were forced out of should be easy

I foresee some problems with this, because the definition of refugee as it has been applied to Palestinians is different to the way it is applied generally. For example, the 1951 Refugee Convention says that once you have citizenship elsewhere, you can’t be a refugee. But under the UNRWA mandate, Palestinians can be citizens of another country and still be refugees, and can be 4 or 5 generations removed from the original refugee. Giving back property is going to be hard when the people living there now are highly unlikely to be the people who lived there in 1948. It seems that you’d be creating a new refugee crisis and a new theft of property if that happened. Also all of that ignores the way the state of Israel was created - by UN Resolution. The people living there now didn’t literally steal the land from Palestinians, the state was created in a way that may now seem wrong but at the time was a perfectly normal way to divide lands that were formerly parts of empires. See also Jordan, Lebanon, Pakistan, etc.

Anything other than a right of return legitimizes ethnic cleansing

What do you do when right of return is also ethnic cleansing? Two people can't live in the same house. So what is your solution to that?

I guess that’s what happens when you found a country by driving off the inhabitants and then giving away their homes.