teacher turnover in APS

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Don't forget rudeness from students, especially in grades 6-12. It's off the chain.

The Karens get replaced by pint-size version of themselves in middle school, lol.

Rude kids have always existed. The difference is that no one is willing to discipline them anymore. There are very little consequences for rude behavior. Admin needs to actually start imposing consequences. I feel sorry for the kids who’s education keeps getting disrupted by their classmates.

Rude kids are much more common now. Parents don't teach their kids basic manners and then side with their kids if the teacher says something about the rudeness. Parents used to respect teachers, and teach their kids to do the same.

Yes. True. But there is an entire cultural shift. So parents don’t teach their kids basic manners and schools don’t enforce consequences for the lack of manners. We can’t control parental behavior. But schools can control what they do and enforce consequences.

There is a lobbying group in Arlington now dedicated to parents rights called Arlington Parents for Education or APE. They are trying to resurrect their image now but they were awful to teachers during the pandemic and a lot of them are pro private school vouchers so teachers leaving and weakening public schools helps their agenda. They also lobbied against Covid safety and one of their priorities is return to normal. This too has caused teachers who don’t want to get infected over and over with Covid to leave.

This is a pretty twisted and inaccurate narrative. But let's not let the truth get in the way of a good smear.

We saw what we saw. Both teachers and normal non APE parents.

DP. Somebody on this forum always claims there's an APE supporter who keeps piping in. It seems to me that PP may be a singular anti-APE person who has to find an opportunity in every chain of discussion, regardless of topic, to bring up APE.

If you think there's just one anti APE person out there, think again. They alienated a whole lot of people.

As did SR. Both were ridiculous.

No, sorry. We aren’t “both sides-ing” this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget rudeness from students, especially in grades 6-12. It's off the chain.

The Karens get replaced by pint-size version of themselves in middle school, lol.

Rude kids have always existed. The difference is that no one is willing to discipline them anymore. There are very little consequences for rude behavior. Admin needs to actually start imposing consequences. I feel sorry for the kids who’s education keeps getting disrupted by their classmates.

Rude kids are much more common now. Parents don't teach their kids basic manners and then side with their kids if the teacher says something about the rudeness. Parents used to respect teachers, and teach their kids to do the same.

Yes. True. But there is an entire cultural shift. So parents don’t teach their kids basic manners and schools don’t enforce consequences for the lack of manners. We can’t control parental behavior. But schools can control what they do and enforce consequences.

There is a lobbying group in Arlington now dedicated to parents rights called Arlington Parents for Education or APE. They are trying to resurrect their image now but they were awful to teachers during the pandemic and a lot of them are pro private school vouchers so teachers leaving and weakening public schools helps their agenda. They also lobbied against Covid safety and one of their priorities is return to normal. This too has caused teachers who don’t want to get infected over and over with Covid to leave.

This is a pretty twisted and inaccurate narrative. But let's not let the truth get in the way of a good smear.

We saw what we saw. Both teachers and normal non APE parents.

DP. Somebody on this forum always claims there's an APE supporter who keeps piping in. It seems to me that PP may be a singular anti-APE person who has to find an opportunity in every chain of discussion, regardless of topic, to bring up APE.

100% this. There is definitely one APE obsessed poster who has to bring it into every thread related to APS. I'm sure it's one of the AEM nutters.

Ah, calling others “nutters.” You’re a classic APE loon. Typical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never thought I’d say it, but I’m warming to the idea of vouchers. The current state of APS can’t be what’s best for kids. (Maybe it’s best for kids with no other options, but it’s hardly what’s best for anyone else.)

And why do you think it matters what you’re “warming to” again? You aren’t getting vouchers. If you want private, pay for it,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never thought I’d say it, but I’m warming to the idea of vouchers. The current state of APS can’t be what’s best for kids. (Maybe it’s best for kids with no other options, but it’s hardly what’s best for anyone else.)

I loved your previous work in "I'm as liberal as they come, but," "Lifelong Democrat but," and of course "I'm not a racist, but"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget rudeness from students, especially in grades 6-12. It's off the chain.

The Karens get replaced by pint-size version of themselves in middle school, lol.

Rude kids have always existed. The difference is that no one is willing to discipline them anymore. There are very little consequences for rude behavior. Admin needs to actually start imposing consequences. I feel sorry for the kids who’s education keeps getting disrupted by their classmates.

Rude kids are much more common now. Parents don't teach their kids basic manners and then side with their kids if the teacher says something about the rudeness. Parents used to respect teachers, and teach their kids to do the same.

Yes. True. But there is an entire cultural shift. So parents don’t teach their kids basic manners and schools don’t enforce consequences for the lack of manners. We can’t control parental behavior. But schools can control what they do and enforce consequences.

There is a lobbying group in Arlington now dedicated to parents rights called Arlington Parents for Education or APE. They are trying to resurrect their image now but they were awful to teachers during the pandemic and a lot of them are pro private school vouchers so teachers leaving and weakening public schools helps their agenda. They also lobbied against Covid safety and one of their priorities is return to normal. This too has caused teachers who don’t want to get infected over and over with Covid to leave.

This is a pretty twisted and inaccurate narrative. But let's not let the truth get in the way of a good smear.

We saw what we saw. Both teachers and normal non APE parents.

DP. Somebody on this forum always claims there's an APE supporter who keeps piping in. It seems to me that PP may be a singular anti-APE person who has to find an opportunity in every chain of discussion, regardless of topic, to bring up APE.

If you think there's just one anti APE person out there, think again. They alienated a whole lot of people.

As did SR. Both were ridiculous.

No, sorry. We aren’t “both sides-ing” this.

No, we are because there are certain people (yes, on both sides) who have made it their entire personality. No one is leaving in 2023 because of long Covid or parents wanting schools open. They’re leaving because the administration both at the school level and district level is chasing shiny things instead of supporting classroom teachers or because they are starting families and can’t afford to live in or near Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG Could we please have even one post that is not about APE or Smart Restart? It is the year of our lord 2023.

We’re discussing teachers. Parental disrespect & bullying of teachers is a relevant & ongoing issue. It’s not the only factor but it surely plays a part.

Hmm funny thing. A lot of teachers speak at school board meetings. They’ve complained about Duran’s leadership, his cabinet, all the paid days off that syphax is getting, class sizes, compensation, caseloads, and so on. Not a single one has said “help us with mean parents”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG Could we please have even one post that is not about APE or Smart Restart? It is the year of our lord 2023.

We’re discussing teachers. Parental disrespect & bullying of teachers is a relevant & ongoing issue. It’s not the only factor but it surely plays a part.

Hmm funny thing. A lot of teachers speak at school board meetings. They’ve complained about Duran’s leadership, his cabinet, all the paid days off that syphax is getting, class sizes, compensation, caseloads, and so on. Not a single one has said “help us with mean parents”.

To be fair it’s really just a handful of teachers, the same ones who complain about every tiny little thing on the staff pages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG Could we please have even one post that is not about APE or Smart Restart? It is the year of our lord 2023.

We’re discussing teachers. Parental disrespect & bullying of teachers is a relevant & ongoing issue. It’s not the only factor but it surely plays a part.

Hmm funny thing. A lot of teachers speak at school board meetings. They’ve complained about Duran’s leadership, his cabinet, all the paid days off that syphax is getting, class sizes, compensation, caseloads, and so on. Not a single one has said “help us with mean parents”.

Why on earth would they do that? What is the school board going to do? The fact they don't talk to the school board about this doesn't mean this isn't a serious problem for teachers. Nice try....you're probably one of those horrid parents who's just looking for ways to rationalize your entitled behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG Could we please have even one post that is not about APE or Smart Restart? It is the year of our lord 2023.

We’re discussing teachers. Parental disrespect & bullying of teachers is a relevant & ongoing issue. It’s not the only factor but it surely plays a part.

Hmm funny thing. A lot of teachers speak at school board meetings. They’ve complained about Duran’s leadership, his cabinet, all the paid days off that syphax is getting, class sizes, compensation, caseloads, and so on. Not a single one has said “help us with mean parents”.

Why on earth would they do that? What is the school board going to do? The fact they don't talk to the school board about this doesn't mean this isn't a serious problem for teachers. Nice try....you're probably one of those horrid parents who's just looking for ways to rationalize your entitled behavior.

The teacher complaints I've heard are far more about the APS administration and being jerked around on expectations than parent behavior, but maybe parents at your school are particularly bad. I've seen good parent-teacher interactions.

As one exception, I'll note that we have a handful of parents in SR leadership (eh hem, ventilation lady and her friends) at my school who keep trying to create drama where there is none. They like to pretend that you have to agree with them or you are anti-teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget rudeness from students, especially in grades 6-12. It's off the chain.

The Karens get replaced by pint-size version of themselves in middle school, lol.

Rude kids have always existed. The difference is that no one is willing to discipline them anymore. There are very little consequences for rude behavior. Admin needs to actually start imposing consequences. I feel sorry for the kids who’s education keeps getting disrupted by their classmates.

Rude kids are much more common now. Parents don't teach their kids basic manners and then side with their kids if the teacher says something about the rudeness. Parents used to respect teachers, and teach their kids to do the same.

Yes. True. But there is an entire cultural shift. So parents don’t teach their kids basic manners and schools don’t enforce consequences for the lack of manners. We can’t control parental behavior. But schools can control what they do and enforce consequences.

There is a lobbying group in Arlington now dedicated to parents rights called Arlington Parents for Education or APE. They are trying to resurrect their image now but they were awful to teachers during the pandemic and a lot of them are pro private school vouchers so teachers leaving and weakening public schools helps their agenda. They also lobbied against Covid safety and one of their priorities is return to normal. This too has caused teachers who don’t want to get infected over and over with Covid to leave.

This is a pretty twisted and inaccurate narrative. But let's not let the truth get in the way of a good smear.

We saw what we saw. Both teachers and normal non APE parents.

DP. Somebody on this forum always claims there's an APE supporter who keeps piping in. It seems to me that PP may be a singular anti-APE person who has to find an opportunity in every chain of discussion, regardless of topic, to bring up APE.

If you think there's just one anti APE person out there, think again. They alienated a whole lot of people.

As did SR. Both were ridiculous.

No, sorry. We aren’t “both sides-ing” this.

Exactly, that only works for the Covid deniers who think following CDC standards is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

JFC does every APS post have to rehash Covid, APE, SR

Move on people!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget rudeness from students, especially in grades 6-12. It's off the chain.

The Karens get replaced by pint-size version of themselves in middle school, lol.

Rude kids have always existed. The difference is that no one is willing to discipline them anymore. There are very little consequences for rude behavior. Admin needs to actually start imposing consequences. I feel sorry for the kids who’s education keeps getting disrupted by their classmates.

Rude kids are much more common now. Parents don't teach their kids basic manners and then side with their kids if the teacher says something about the rudeness. Parents used to respect teachers, and teach their kids to do the same.

Yes. True. But there is an entire cultural shift. So parents don’t teach their kids basic manners and schools don’t enforce consequences for the lack of manners. We can’t control parental behavior. But schools can control what they do and enforce consequences.

There is a lobbying group in Arlington now dedicated to parents rights called Arlington Parents for Education or APE. They are trying to resurrect their image now but they were awful to teachers during the pandemic and a lot of them are pro private school vouchers so teachers leaving and weakening public schools helps their agenda. They also lobbied against Covid safety and one of their priorities is return to normal. This too has caused teachers who don’t want to get infected over and over with Covid to leave.

This is a pretty twisted and inaccurate narrative. But let's not let the truth get in the way of a good smear.

We saw what we saw. Both teachers and normal non APE parents.

DP. Somebody on this forum always claims there's an APE supporter who keeps piping in. It seems to me that PP may be a singular anti-APE person who has to find an opportunity in every chain of discussion, regardless of topic, to bring up APE.

If you think there's just one anti APE person out there, think again. They alienated a whole lot of people.

But they don't keep coming here posting about it at every turn!!!

Yes, yes they do.

No, I don't believe they do. I believe it's just this one, Maybe 2, people coming here and initiating something about APE in every discussion thread. The rest of the alienated people aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG Could we please have even one post that is not about APE or Smart Restart? It is the year of our lord 2023.

We’re discussing teachers. Parental disrespect & bullying of teachers is a relevant & ongoing issue. It’s not the only factor but it surely plays a part.

Agreed. Lack of respect for teachers and dictating what they can and can't say is part of this. Like that awful Youngkin teacher tip line. It's all tied together because the open up now nutters put Youngkin in office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget rudeness from students, especially in grades 6-12. It's off the chain.

The Karens get replaced by pint-size version of themselves in middle school, lol.

Rude kids have always existed. The difference is that no one is willing to discipline them anymore. There are very little consequences for rude behavior. Admin needs to actually start imposing consequences. I feel sorry for the kids who’s education keeps getting disrupted by their classmates.

Rude kids are much more common now. Parents don't teach their kids basic manners and then side with their kids if the teacher says something about the rudeness. Parents used to respect teachers, and teach their kids to do the same.

Yes. True. But there is an entire cultural shift. So parents don’t teach their kids basic manners and schools don’t enforce consequences for the lack of manners. We can’t control parental behavior. But schools can control what they do and enforce consequences.

There is a lobbying group in Arlington now dedicated to parents rights called Arlington Parents for Education or APE. They are trying to resurrect their image now but they were awful to teachers during the pandemic and a lot of them are pro private school vouchers so teachers leaving and weakening public schools helps their agenda. They also lobbied against Covid safety and one of their priorities is return to normal. This too has caused teachers who don’t want to get infected over and over with Covid to leave.

This is a pretty twisted and inaccurate narrative. But let's not let the truth get in the way of a good smear.

We saw what we saw. Both teachers and normal non APE parents.

DP. Somebody on this forum always claims there's an APE supporter who keeps piping in. It seems to me that PP may be a singular anti-APE person who has to find an opportunity in every chain of discussion, regardless of topic, to bring up APE.

If you think there's just one anti APE person out there, think again. They alienated a whole lot of people.

But they don't keep coming here posting about it at every turn!!!

Yes, yes they do.

No, I don't believe they do. I believe it's just this one, Maybe 2, people coming here and initiating something about APE in every discussion thread. The rest of the alienated people aren't.

APE continues to be very relevant to APS and as such, is definitely an org that we need to discuss. APE was not just a group of parents that lobbied to open up during Covid. APE has since turned into a lobbying group. They put out a newsletter. They are putting their founder on the school board. They won't stop until they transform APS into their image. So yes, we do need to keep talking about APE, or ignore them at our peril.

I'm sure it's the APEs who want to shut down talk of what they are doing so the rest of us won't see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I realize squabbling is fun, but are teachers actually citing APE as their reason for leaving? I would expect it's the usual reasons like life changes, high cost of living, crappy bosses, etc.

I personally know multiple teachers and staff members (and good ones too) who quit because they did not feel safe being in schools given the level of Covid precautions, and they did not feel their health and well-being was supported by either APS or parents. So yes.

The "usual reasons" were always there. There's a reason things are much worse now.

They're leaving now because of COVID? I don't think this thread is about teachers who left two years ago.

Exactly. It's an ongoing problem. COVID had its impact; but it's the other stuff now.
Let's also not forget that many teachers leave each year due to retirement.

The ones who I know of who were concerned about Covid did leave 2 years ago. But let's no forget the elephant in the room. Covid can be a disabling illness and teachers are particularly exposed. Some of them can't work anymore because of long Covid, or it's harder to work so they are retiring earlier than planned.

OK, maybe a few people are "disabled" due to long COVID? But those retiring earlier than planned? There are a host of other reasons than COVID itself or how APS handled COVID or how APE people treated teachers during COVID. Even the YHS chemistry teacher who spoke at the school board meeting explained quite clearly her reasons for retiring earlier than she planned - and none of those reasons were COVID.