teacher turnover in APS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The turnover at my school is predictable I think, it’s mainly SPED staff and the teachers who have inclusion clusters in their classroom. We aren’t getting enough support, the needs are too great for many of the students who would have been spending much more time in self-contained a few years ago. I think the new inclusion goals are noble yet unrealistic. I’ve already decided that if I’m ever hit again I’ll quit. FWIW, I rarely hear anyone complain about pay, it’s been pushed to the bottom of concerns in my circle.

what are the inclusion clusters?

Mainstream classrooms with special education students included.

are these spread evenly among all the grade classes, or do only some teachers get burdened with them?

Most are usually in a co-taught class at each grade level, but as PP stated there are more students who fit this category, so a few usually overflow into an additional classroom.

Wait a sec... so only one class per grade gets to absorb challenging students for the most part? Is this a common policy? That's not fair, period.

Plenty of behavioral problems without IEPs who are spread around to all classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget rudeness from students, especially in grades 6-12. It's off the chain.

The Karens get replaced by pint-size version of themselves in middle school, lol.

Rude kids have always existed. The difference is that no one is willing to discipline them anymore. There are very little consequences for rude behavior. Admin needs to actually start imposing consequences. I feel sorry for the kids who’s education keeps getting disrupted by their classmates.

Rude kids are much more common now. Parents don't teach their kids basic manners and then side with their kids if the teacher says something about the rudeness. Parents used to respect teachers, and teach their kids to do the same.

I feel that could be said about me, and I have to defend myself by saying that APS has turned me into this person. My mom was a teacher, and with my first child, I always sided with the teachers. My second child was so mistreated by APS (denied services that he so clearly needed until it was really too late, treated like a "bad kid" by APS because he couldn't "do" school without the services that he so clearly needed) and, while it is not the teachers' faults (mostly), admin forces the parent to act as though it is. By the time my child started receiving services (late HS), I no longer talked to the teachers - just went straight to his case carrier / counselor / assistant principal with any and everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who said burdened? What an ignorant awful thing to say about kids with disabilities.

Burdened, yes, if they have a disproportionate share of behavior issues. What about kids without these issues in su h a lassroom? Why don't all classes include all categories equally?

They can't because they don't have the funding to spread out that many staff positions. But you go ahead and advocate for the funding so they can.

+1 This. It seemed odd to me at first that all these cluster of kids would be in certain classrooms and I don't think I was aware of it until we switched from a less diverse elementary school to a more diverse elementary school. Once we were in a more diverse school, it was very obvious that they had all the ELL kids in one class, sped in another class, and IEPs in another class. My kids were the others in all of these classes and the toughest experience was the one with IEPs. Just a way more disruptive experience. It was nice to have a second teacher in the classroom but she could only be assigned for half the day as she had other classes to work with. My child would come home and tell me about how the teacher would get so frustrated at the chaos that would come from these "boys" acting out; and often the whole class had to deal with the repercussions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who said burdened? What an ignorant awful thing to say about kids with disabilities.

Burdened, yes, if they have a disproportionate share of behavior issues. What about kids without these issues in su h a lassroom? Why don't all classes include all categories equally?

They can't because they don't have the funding to spread out that many staff positions. But you go ahead and advocate for the funding so they can.

+1 This. It seemed odd to me at first that all these cluster of kids would be in certain classrooms and I don't think I was aware of it until we switched from a less diverse elementary school to a more diverse elementary school. Once we were in a more diverse school, it was very obvious that they had all the ELL kids in one class, sped in another class, and IEPs in another class. My kids were the others in all of these classes and the toughest experience was the one with IEPs. Just a way more disruptive experience. It was nice to have a second teacher in the classroom but she could only be assigned for half the day as she had other classes to work with. My child would come home and tell me about how the teacher would get so frustrated at the chaos that would come from these "boys" acting out; and often the whole class had to deal with the repercussions.

Usually, if there is clustering, they have extra resources in the classroom to manage it. These classes can often be the best because there is extra support from aides and specialists. By contrast, a class with no extra support and rowdy boys can be awful.

IME, they don't usually put all the IEP kids in one class to keep the cluster from overwhelming the classes, so it's usually split between 2 classes. We usually only have one class with ELL students because of numbers, but I'd expect the same if there were enough ELL students to support more clusters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who said burdened? What an ignorant awful thing to say about kids with disabilities.

Burdened, yes, if they have a disproportionate share of behavior issues. What about kids without these issues in su h a lassroom? Why don't all classes include all categories equally?

They can't because they don't have the funding to spread out that many staff positions. But you go ahead and advocate for the funding so they can.

+1 This. It seemed odd to me at first that all these cluster of kids would be in certain classrooms and I don't think I was aware of it until we switched from a less diverse elementary school to a more diverse elementary school. Once we were in a more diverse school, it was very obvious that they had all the ELL kids in one class, sped in another class, and IEPs in another class. My kids were the others in all of these classes and the toughest experience was the one with IEPs. Just a way more disruptive experience. It was nice to have a second teacher in the classroom but she could only be assigned for half the day as she had other classes to work with. My child would come home and tell me about how the teacher would get so frustrated at the chaos that would come from these "boys" acting out; and often the whole class had to deal with the repercussions.

Usually, if there is clustering, they have extra resources in the classroom to manage it. These classes can often be the best because there is extra support from aides and specialists. By contrast, a class with no extra support and rowdy boys can be awful.

IME, they don't usually put all the IEP kids in one class to keep the cluster from overwhelming the classes, so it's usually split between 2 classes. We usually only have one class with ELL students because of numbers, but I'd expect the same if there were enough ELL students to support more clusters.

I wouldn’t say they are often the best (as someone who has served as the SPED teacher) but they are also grouped with the gifted cluster as well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget rudeness from students, especially in grades 6-12. It's off the chain.

The Karens get replaced by pint-size version of themselves in middle school, lol.

Rude kids have always existed. The difference is that no one is willing to discipline them anymore. There are very little consequences for rude behavior. Admin needs to actually start imposing consequences. I feel sorry for the kids who’s education keeps getting disrupted by their classmates.

Rude kids are much more common now. Parents don't teach their kids basic manners and then side with their kids if the teacher says something about the rudeness. Parents used to respect teachers, and teach their kids to do the same.

I feel that could be said about me, and I have to defend myself by saying that APS has turned me into this person. My mom was a teacher, and with my first child, I always sided with the teachers. My second child was so mistreated by APS (denied services that he so clearly needed until it was really too late, treated like a "bad kid" by APS because he couldn't "do" school without the services that he so clearly needed) and, while it is not the teachers' faults (mostly), admin forces the parent to act as though it is. By the time my child started receiving services (late HS), I no longer talked to the teachers - just went straight to his case carrier / counselor / assistant principal with any and everything.

there's a world of difference between you and the typical entitled parents rights anti teacher nutters

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who said burdened? What an ignorant awful thing to say about kids with disabilities.

Burdened, yes, if they have a disproportionate share of behavior issues. What about kids without these issues in su h a lassroom? Why don't all classes include all categories equally?

They can't because they don't have the funding to spread out that many staff positions. But you go ahead and advocate for the funding so they can.

+1 This. It seemed odd to me at first that all these cluster of kids would be in certain classrooms and I don't think I was aware of it until we switched from a less diverse elementary school to a more diverse elementary school. Once we were in a more diverse school, it was very obvious that they had all the ELL kids in one class, sped in another class, and IEPs in another class. My kids were the others in all of these classes and the toughest experience was the one with IEPs. Just a way more disruptive experience. It was nice to have a second teacher in the classroom but she could only be assigned for half the day as she had other classes to work with. My child would come home and tell me about how the teacher would get so frustrated at the chaos that would come from these "boys" acting out; and often the whole class had to deal with the repercussions.

Is IEP not sped? Maybe it was my misconception. I don't understand how so much money is spent on public schools and they can't spread different categories of accommodations equally. I agree, behavior issues are particularly damaging for other kids in that classroom. How is it ok to concentrate all the behavior problem kids in one classroom--for the other kids and the teacher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who said burdened? What an ignorant awful thing to say about kids with disabilities.

Burdened, yes, if they have a disproportionate share of behavior issues. What about kids without these issues in su h a lassroom? Why don't all classes include all categories equally?

They can't because they don't have the funding to spread out that many staff positions. But you go ahead and advocate for the funding so they can.

+1 This. It seemed odd to me at first that all these cluster of kids would be in certain classrooms and I don't think I was aware of it until we switched from a less diverse elementary school to a more diverse elementary school. Once we were in a more diverse school, it was very obvious that they had all the ELL kids in one class, sped in another class, and IEPs in another class. My kids were the others in all of these classes and the toughest experience was the one with IEPs. Just a way more disruptive experience. It was nice to have a second teacher in the classroom but she could only be assigned for half the day as she had other classes to work with. My child would come home and tell me about how the teacher would get so frustrated at the chaos that would come from these "boys" acting out; and often the whole class had to deal with the repercussions.

Is IEP not sped? Maybe it was my misconception. I don't understand how so much money is spent on public schools and they can't spread different categories of accommodations equally. I agree, behavior issues are particularly damaging for other kids in that classroom. How is it ok to concentrate all the behavior problem kids in one classroom--for the other kids and the teacher?

There are also 504s. For example, you can have a kid with physical disabilities who doesn't need an IEP, but still needs certain supports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who said burdened? What an ignorant awful thing to say about kids with disabilities.

Burdened, yes, if they have a disproportionate share of behavior issues. What about kids without these issues in su h a lassroom? Why don't all classes include all categories equally?

First of all, learning issues do not equate to behavior problems. Our behavioral cases consist of students with AND without special education services.

Secondly, grouping is what makes it possible to deliver services to our students. Would you rather the EL teacher went to 4 classrooms to work with a few kids for 10 minutes in each one, or would you rather that teacher be able to spend 40 minutes with them each day?

[Anonymous]

Yes, I don't mean just sped. I mean behavior issues and I'm sure everyone knows who has them. Concentrating those in one class is abysmal but IME it happens. Not blaming those teachers for leaving. And, likewise, sad for parents and students in such classes, bot those with and without behavior issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who said burdened? What an ignorant awful thing to say about kids with disabilities.

Burdened, yes, if they have a disproportionate share of behavior issues. What about kids without these issues in su h a lassroom? Why don't all classes include all categories equally?

This.....+1

I have been wondering this also🤔. I think if all classes had inclusion then maybe there would be more opportunity for support in the classes. If there are disproportionate percentages in 2 to 1 classes pwr grade level then I can see how the teachers of those classes may get burn out faster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who said burdened? What an ignorant awful thing to say about kids with disabilities.

Burdened, yes, if they have a disproportionate share of behavior issues. What about kids without these issues in su h a lassroom? Why don't all classes include all categories equally?

They can't because they don't have the funding to spread out that many staff positions. But you go ahead and advocate for the funding so they can.

+1 This. It seemed odd to me at first that all these cluster of kids would be in certain classrooms and I don't think I was aware of it until we switched from a less diverse elementary school to a more diverse elementary school. Once we were in a more diverse school, it was very obvious that they had all the ELL kids in one class, sped in another class, and IEPs in another class. My kids were the others in all of these classes and the toughest experience was the one with IEPs. Just a way more disruptive experience. It was nice to have a second teacher in the classroom but she could only be assigned for half the day as she had other classes to work with. My child would come home and tell me about how the teacher would get so frustrated at the chaos that would come from these "boys" acting out; and often the whole class had to deal with the repercussions.

Is IEP not sped? Maybe it was my misconception. I don't understand how so much money is spent on public schools and they can't spread different categories of accommodations equally. I agree, behavior issues are particularly damaging for other kids in that classroom. How is it ok to concentrate all the behavior problem kids in one classroom--for the other kids and the teacher?

Yes special ed = IEPs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who said burdened? What an ignorant awful thing to say about kids with disabilities.

Burdened, yes, if they have a disproportionate share of behavior issues. What about kids without these issues in su h a lassroom? Why don't all classes include all categories equally?

This.....+1

I have been wondering this also🤔. I think if all classes had inclusion then maybe there would be more opportunity for support in the classes. If there are disproportionate percentages in 2 to 1 classes pwr grade level then I can see how the teachers of those classes may get burn out faster.

They’d get less support because you usually only have one sped teacher per grade, and maybe one IA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who said burdened? What an ignorant awful thing to say about kids with disabilities.

Burdened, yes, if they have a disproportionate share of behavior issues. What about kids without these issues in su h a lassroom? Why don't all classes include all categories equally?

This.....+1

I have been wondering this also🤔. I think if all classes had inclusion then maybe there would be more opportunity for support in the classes. If there are disproportionate percentages in 2 to 1 classes pwr grade level then I can see how the teachers of those classes may get burn out faster.

How on earth would that provide MORE support?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work at one APS school and have children at two others. I am very concerned about the teacher retention issue. We have steadily lost talented, well-loved teachers each year at all 3 schools. I know teaching as a professional is struggling but it seems magnified in APS compared to my friends who live in other counties. I wish the county would prioritize compensation and retention programs over some of the other less impactful initiatives that keep getting rolled out. We need good teachers and people move to Arlington for the schools. (or at least they used to).

It's bad in FCPS too but the county is so much bigger they are better at hiding the issues-so many teachers resigned this year.