Should people still hide/lie about their race on college applications?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Better question would be, what happens if someone checks the Black or Hispanic box (or whatever they are called in the common app) and get admitted to a particular college. Come to find out a year later that they aren't really Black. Can the college expel that student for lying in response to that question? If they do that, isn't that a lawsuit waiting to happen since the grounds for the expulsion was illegal?

I say everyone check that Black box.

How about just don't cheat / lie?

Novel concept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better question would be, what happens if someone checks the Black or Hispanic box (or whatever they are called in the common app) and get admitted to a particular college. Come to find out a year later that they aren't really Black. Can the college expel that student for lying in response to that question? If they do that, isn't that a lawsuit waiting to happen since the grounds for the expulsion was illegal?

I say everyone check that Black box.

How about just don't cheat / lie?

Novel concept.

Dp.
How about no racial discrimination for ANY race?

Novel concept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a certain irony in requiring this data be collected not at the time of enrollment, but specifically at the time of admission, in order to prove whether or not discrimination is happening in admissions. The very collection of the data at the time of admission may promote discrimination.

+1. Sounds like collecting the race info at the time of enrollment is a better choice.

But then how would the people who want to sue the colleges over admissions have the data to support it?

I’m being sarcastic, but people will probably demand colleges provide this info to prove they AREN’T using race. If the percentages of certain groups don’t go up or down as some wealthy group expected, they’ll sue.

This is why colleges will stop accepting that data from the Common App. That way when they are sued they can cough up the data and it will prove they never received it / never saw it.

[Anonymous]

A lot of information on the common app makes it very easy to determine race without checking a box. Membership in affinity clubs, first and last name of applicant or parents, neighborhood or zip code if in a city. Let’s just admit that we are trusting AOs to ignore the information in front of them and disregard race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of information on the common app makes it very easy to determine race without checking a box. Membership in affinity clubs, first and last name of applicant or parents, neighborhood or zip code if in a city. Let’s just admit that we are trusting AOs to ignore the information in front of them and disregard race.

Almost all of the schools DCUM argues over have >50k applicants each year. No one has the time to google baby names and figure out where they came from. And let's be frank - affinity club membership is low single digits. Plus, considering the tenor of this thread who knows whether or not anyone is actually a member of whatever club they write into their ECs.

I don't believe there is anything left to argue here.

1. SC has forbade universities from using race/gender checkboxes
2. Common App has made receiving that data optional
3. No university will ever again accept that data from Common App
4. The top universities will continue admitting only 3-7 percent of their applicants

So the next tranche of disappointed students will have much less grist when they call their attorneys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better question would be, what happens if someone checks the Black or Hispanic box (or whatever they are called in the common app) and get admitted to a particular college. Come to find out a year later that they aren't really Black. Can the college expel that student for lying in response to that question? If they do that, isn't that a lawsuit waiting to happen since the grounds for the expulsion was illegal?

I say everyone check that Black box.

How about just don't cheat / lie?

Novel concept.

Dp.
How about no racial discrimination for ANY race?

Novel concept.

Right.

Black Lives Matter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a certain irony in requiring this data be collected not at the time of enrollment, but specifically at the time of admission, in order to prove whether or not discrimination is happening in admissions. The very collection of the data at the time of admission may promote discrimination.

+1. Sounds like collecting the race info at the time of enrollment is a better choice.

But then how would the people who want to sue the colleges over admissions have the data to support it?

I’m being sarcastic, but people will probably demand colleges provide this info to prove they AREN’T using race. If the percentages of certain groups don’t go up or down as some wealthy group expected, they’ll sue.

This is why colleges will stop accepting that data from the Common App. That way when they are sued they can cough up the data and it will prove they never received it / never saw it.

Okay. But what happens when we actually look at the entering class?

Colleges don’t need to collect data to act in impermissible ways and we don’t need to rely on their data to prove it in court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With the latest Supreme Court ruling, it looks like there will no longer be an advantage for white kids who lie and claim Hispanic or black.

There are a lot of white Hispanics. Not sure why you think it is lying to say you are Hispanic if you are white.

It is lying to say you are Hispanic if you are white and not Hispanic.

Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. Ethnicity and race are two separate questions in the app. After checking Yes for Hispanic ethnicity, most Hispanics check the white box for the race question in the Common App. The race choices are:
American Indian or Alaska Native
Asian
Black or African American
Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
White

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of information on the common app makes it very easy to determine race without checking a box. Membership in affinity clubs, first and last name of applicant or parents, neighborhood or zip code if in a city. Let’s just admit that we are trusting AOs to ignore the information in front of them and disregard race.

Almost all of the schools DCUM argues over have >50k applicants each year. No one has the time to google baby names and figure out where they came from. And let's be frank - affinity club membership is low single digits. Plus, considering the tenor of this thread who knows whether or not anyone is actually a member of whatever club they write into their ECs.

I don't believe there is anything left to argue here.

1. SC has forbade universities from using race/gender checkboxes
2. Common App has made receiving that data optional
3. No university will ever again accept that data from Common App
4. The top universities will continue admitting only 3-7 percent of their applicants

So the next tranche of disappointed students will have much less grist when they call their attorneys.

Google baby names? You cant tell the race of someone with the last name Sanchez, Garcia, Watanabe, Chen, Wang, Park, etc.? Or the first name Juan or Carlos?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of information on the common app makes it very easy to determine race without checking a box. Membership in affinity clubs, first and last name of applicant or parents, neighborhood or zip code if in a city. Let’s just admit that we are trusting AOs to ignore the information in front of them and disregard race.

Almost all of the schools DCUM argues over have >50k applicants each year. No one has the time to google baby names and figure out where they came from. And let's be frank - affinity club membership is low single digits. Plus, considering the tenor of this thread who knows whether or not anyone is actually a member of whatever club they write into their ECs.

I don't believe there is anything left to argue here.

1. SC has forbade universities from using race/gender checkboxes
2. Common App has made receiving that data optional
3. No university will ever again accept that data from Common App
4. The top universities will continue admitting only 3-7 percent of their applicants

So the next tranche of disappointed students will have much less grist when they call their attorneys.

Google baby names? You cant tell the race of someone with the last name Sanchez, Garcia, Watanabe, Chen, Wang, Park, etc.? Or the first name Juan or Carlos?

Or Hakeem Washington or Chad McBryde or Rajesh Koothrapalli?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of information on the common app makes it very easy to determine race without checking a box. Membership in affinity clubs, first and last name of applicant or parents, neighborhood or zip code if in a city. Let’s just admit that we are trusting AOs to ignore the information in front of them and disregard race.

Almost all of the schools DCUM argues over have >50k applicants each year. No one has the time to google baby names and figure out where they came from. And let's be frank - affinity club membership is low single digits. Plus, considering the tenor of this thread who knows whether or not anyone is actually a member of whatever club they write into their ECs.

I don't believe there is anything left to argue here.

1. SC has forbade universities from using race/gender checkboxes
2. Common App has made receiving that data optional
3. No university will ever again accept that data from Common App
4. The top universities will continue admitting only 3-7 percent of their applicants

So the next tranche of disappointed students will have much less grist when they call their attorneys.

Google baby names? You cant tell the race of someone with the last name Sanchez, Garcia, Watanabe, Chen, Wang, Park, etc.? Or the first name Juan or Carlos?

Giannis Antetokounmpo


Mario Balotelli



LaKeisha Francis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of information on the common app makes it very easy to determine race without checking a box. Membership in affinity clubs, first and last name of applicant or parents, neighborhood or zip code if in a city. Let’s just admit that we are trusting AOs to ignore the information in front of them and disregard race.

Almost all of the schools DCUM argues over have >50k applicants each year. No one has the time to google baby names and figure out where they came from. And let's be frank - affinity club membership is low single digits. Plus, considering the tenor of this thread who knows whether or not anyone is actually a member of whatever club they write into their ECs.

I don't believe there is anything left to argue here.

1. SC has forbade universities from using race/gender checkboxes
2. Common App has made receiving that data optional
3. No university will ever again accept that data from Common App
4. The top universities will continue admitting only 3-7 percent of their applicants

So the next tranche of disappointed students will have much less grist when they call their attorneys.

Google baby names? You cant tell the race of someone with the last name Sanchez, Garcia, Watanabe, Chen, Wang, Park, etc.? Or the first name Juan or Carlos?

Or Hakeem Washington or Chad McBryde or Rajesh Koothrapalli?

Scott Fujita isn't actually Japanese. Not even a little bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of information on the common app makes it very easy to determine race without checking a box. Membership in affinity clubs, first and last name of applicant or parents, neighborhood or zip code if in a city. Let’s just admit that we are trusting AOs to ignore the information in front of them and disregard race.

Almost all of the schools DCUM argues over have >50k applicants each year. No one has the time to google baby names and figure out where they came from. And let's be frank - affinity club membership is low single digits. Plus, considering the tenor of this thread who knows whether or not anyone is actually a member of whatever club they write into their ECs.

I don't believe there is anything left to argue here.

1. SC has forbade universities from using race/gender checkboxes
2. Common App has made receiving that data optional
3. No university will ever again accept that data from Common App
4. The top universities will continue admitting only 3-7 percent of their applicants

So the next tranche of disappointed students will have much less grist when they call their attorneys.

Google baby names? You cant tell the race of someone with the last name Sanchez, Garcia, Watanabe, Chen, Wang, Park, etc.? Or the first name Juan or Carlos?

Or Hakeem Washington or Chad McBryde or Rajesh Koothrapalli?

Scott Fujita isn't actually Japanese. Not even a little bit.

That perplexed look on his face is wondering why he didn't get into harvard despite having all the grades and ECs. Should have taken his college counselor's advice to change his last name to McFujita.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of information on the common app makes it very easy to determine race without checking a box. Membership in affinity clubs, first and last name of applicant or parents, neighborhood or zip code if in a city. Let’s just admit that we are trusting AOs to ignore the information in front of them and disregard race.

Almost all of the schools DCUM argues over have >50k applicants each year. No one has the time to google baby names and figure out where they came from. And let's be frank - affinity club membership is low single digits. Plus, considering the tenor of this thread who knows whether or not anyone is actually a member of whatever club they write into their ECs.

I don't believe there is anything left to argue here.

1. SC has forbade universities from using race/gender checkboxes
2. Common App has made receiving that data optional
3. No university will ever again accept that data from Common App
4. The top universities will continue admitting only 3-7 percent of their applicants

So the next tranche of disappointed students will have much less grist when they call their attorneys.

Google baby names? You cant tell the race of someone with the last name Sanchez, Garcia, Watanabe, Chen, Wang, Park, etc.? Or the first name Juan or Carlos?

Giannis Antetokounmpo


Mario Balotelli



LaKeisha Francis

Giannis - The last name is clearly African. If you know better, Nigerian.
Lakeisha - Hit the jackpot! College app. people will dance with joy and she'll get into all Ivies with a total of $10M in financial aid.
Mario - Last I heard, he was suing the hospital where he was born for mis-spelling his first name on the Birth certificate. They dropped the 'n' at the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a certain irony in requiring this data be collected not at the time of enrollment, but specifically at the time of admission, in order to prove whether or not discrimination is happening in admissions. The very collection of the data at the time of admission may promote discrimination.

+1. Sounds like collecting the race info at the time of enrollment is a better choice.

But then how would the people who want to sue the colleges over admissions have the data to support it?

I’m being sarcastic, but people will probably demand colleges provide this info to prove they AREN’T using race. If the percentages of certain groups don’t go up or down as some wealthy group expected, they’ll sue.

This is why colleges will stop accepting that data from the Common App. That way when they are sued they can cough up the data and it will prove they never received it / never saw it.

Okay. But what happens when we actually look at the entering class?

Colleges don’t need to collect data to act in impermissible ways and we don’t need to rely on their data to prove it in court.

You are fantasizing. If / when some guy named Matthew Lee is not accepted to a school and that school does not have any data on race or ethnicity how can he argue that they denied him because of his name?

Matthew Lee



also Matthew Lee



also, also Matthew Lee