MIL’s will has left kids fighting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You've already established that it's a mess. It's your choice to continue to engage in the mess. There is no obligation to continue to engage in the mess. You clearly want to engage in the mess. Go see a counselor for your grief and to learn why you are attracted to and can't pull away from this.

You act like OP is on the call with the siblings egging on her husband. Clearly she is the sounding board for her husband and looking for help. Your attitude towards OP is gross.

There are always a few folks on these types of threads who lack all ability in reading comprehension, truly all ability. It's clearly a messy situation. OP has consistently represented that her DH is the one involved. He shares what is happening and she posts here, probably seeking insight/guidance from those who may have been in similar circumstances. Some folks have made rock solid observations to her. Then a few pipe up with nonsense.

OP, good luck to your DH. Hope it works out as best as it can.

Oh please, they have nothing to gain from engaging in this mess. A sane person would bow out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are right that this family is dysfunctional. One sibling is trying to take money from her siblings to keep what she feels she is owed. The other siblings are trying to keep what little was left to them in the name of "fairness". These people need to hash it all out honestly. DD1 wants to be able to keep the house. Why doesn't she just say that? Something along the liens of "I've been living here with mom for 10 years and taking care of her for the last 2. I can sell this house to pay the debts, but I would really prefer to not have to move. How can we come to some sort of agreement that keeps me living here?" Siblings can either come to an agreement or they can say "Sorry sis, you knew this was coming. Sell the house."

In any case DD1 really needs to talk to an attorney to figure this out and see what her options are.

This. It's mess OP, and your dh may have angry feelings for a while. I'm the pp that advised he help his sister, but now even she sounds manipulative, with the whole car situation.

Whatever your dh does, he should not put any money into the estate or into the car. Sister is the executor, and it sounds like she needs a lawyer or a legal aid attorney to work this out.

[Anonymous]

OP, I echo those that say any of these late-breaking ideas, regardless of intent, are going to create a mess. The party line from everyone, including your DH, should be “it is executed per the terms of the will and per the laws of the state” and step out of any machinations. It is what it is, and the MIL made the choices she did. If the car loan should not be paid by life insurance, then it isn’t paid by life insurance. The answer to every phone call should be the same line. Otherwise it will get convoluted and soaked in bad feelings and arguments. Follow the will and state laws, and what happens as a result is what happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

DH was expecting the call to be about what had to happen next about gathering info, notifying people of death etc. But executor has proposed that she change how the life insurance is paid out to go to the estate so that the car loan can be paid off. DH said he didn’t think that was possible after death, so executor then suggested each sibling privately pay their share of the life insurance to pay off the car loan before probate starts so that things are cleaner.

How much is the car loan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You've already established that it's a mess. It's your choice to continue to engage in the mess. There is no obligation to continue to engage in the mess. You clearly want to engage in the mess. Go see a counselor for your grief and to learn why you are attracted to and can't pull away from this.

Family will situations can indeed be a big mess, but you have a responsibility to your family, and I would say, even to the deceased loved one, to see them through. Sure it would be nice to just walk away and not deal with it, but it’s your family. Sadly, sometimes even more so when it’s a mess because someone needs to make sure things are done correctly.

My cousin was in a situation where the sibling executor of their parents estate was essentially playing fast and loose with stock holdings from the estate. Thousands of dollars worth of stock simply disappeared from one spreadsheet to the next. It turns out, the executor forgot she had sent the earlier spreadsheet and had sold a few hundred shares of stock and simply taken that money for herself, thinking no one would know the difference. When the other siblings started asking questions, she shut down and told them that she didn’t have to tell them anything. And that’s when the lawyers got involved.

Things didn’t go well for the executor after that. It would have been wrong for the other siblings to walk away from that “mess” and allow the executor to get away with stealing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You've already established that it's a mess. It's your choice to continue to engage in the mess. There is no obligation to continue to engage in the mess. You clearly want to engage in the mess. Go see a counselor for your grief and to learn why you are attracted to and can't pull away from this.

Family will situations can indeed be a big mess, but you have a responsibility to your family, and I would say, even to the deceased loved one, to see them through. Sure it would be nice to just walk away and not deal with it, but it’s your family. Sadly, sometimes even more so when it’s a mess because someone needs to make sure things are done correctly.

My cousin was in a situation where the sibling executor of their parents estate was essentially playing fast and loose with stock holdings from the estate. Thousands of dollars worth of stock simply disappeared from one spreadsheet to the next. It turns out, the executor forgot she had sent the earlier spreadsheet and had sold a few hundred shares of stock and simply taken that money for herself, thinking no one would know the difference. When the other siblings started asking questions, she shut down and told them that she didn’t have to tell them anything. And that’s when the lawyers got involved.

Things didn’t go well for the executor after that. It would have been wrong for the other siblings to walk away from that “mess” and allow the executor to get away with stealing.

In OP's situation however, there looks to be almost nothing to be gained monetarily. No car, a few thousand in life insurance, a few thousand $ worth of land. It makes much more sense to just step away. Yes, support the grieving and seek support for your own grief. But step away from the probate process. Just not worth it.

[Anonymous]

The car loan does not need to be paid off. The two grandkids named inherit the car, and the loan. Right? Sell the car, pay off the loan, and distribute whatever is left to the grandkids.

That's one thing done.

The life insurance does not pay off any creditors. That money goes directly to the named beneficiaries. Done.

The SS check. YOu said "And the balance of the checking account will go down because MIL received a social security check just before she died. So that will need to be paid back."

Double check that. If she was alive when the check hit her bank account, I think it's hers. Explanation here:
https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-answers/returning-social-security-payment.html#:~:text=Social%20Security%20benefits%20are%20paid,receive%20benefits%20for%20that%20month.

"Say your spouse received her benefits on May 9 and died on May 30. Her family or her estate is entitled to keep the payment that arrived on May 9 because it was for April’s benefits. In fact, they would be entitled to keep that money even if she had died the day before it arrived — again, because that payment was for April’s benefits. But her survivors are not entitled to keep the May benefit scheduled to arrive in June, even though she was alive for all but one day of May. She was not alive for the entire month, and for benefit purposes that is the determining factor."

Retirement Account that DS2 drained - if it was with his mom's permission, there's not much you can do about it. But you need to know if taxes or penalties are due from the estate on those. I think this issue is the trickiest legal one, because really DS2 should pay those taxes.

After all the above, I would sell the family land and use the proceeds to pay the lawyers fees, any taxes owed, and the credit card debt. The remaining money if any goes to the listed heirs. DS2 SHOULD be excluded from this inheritance but there's probably no legal way to do it.

Let the DD1 have the house. It's the right thing.

[Anonymous]

14:18

Nope, you can’t legally force 3 heirs to forego their inheritance so that the 4th heir/executor gets a debt free house. It doesn’t matter if the deceased emptied her retirement accounts giving it to one of her kids. It doesn’t matter that one of her kids lived there debt free.

1. Gather and add up all debts.
2. Get a good appraisal for the house, contents, land and car. All assets should be valued at fair market minus any debts specifically against that asset.
3. Identify by % for each heir. Ie DD1 70, DD2 and sons 9 each , grandchildren each 1.5 ..guessing on numbers but you get the points.
4. All non specified assets contents of house, any money in accounts should go toward debt.
5. If the value of the assets is more than the remaining debt. Divide the rest of the debt against the heir %. No heir should be responsible for more debt than their %. Each heir can decide to sell their asset or % to pay the portion of debt. Or personally pay off their portion of debt and keep their % of debt.

You do need a lawyer to do this. SIL eyes will gleam as she happily pockets your checks and then claims no debts were paid.

[Anonymous]

Enough with it’s the right thing to do whatever to keep SIL in the house. No. She as an adult made the choice to stay there. No martyrdom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Enough with it’s the right thing to do whatever to keep SIL in the house. No. She as an adult made the choice to stay there. No martyrdom.

She lived in the house for 10 years and was caregiver for the past 2. That house is her home. Why make her move?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enough with it’s the right thing to do whatever to keep SIL in the house. No. She as an adult made the choice to stay there. No martyrdom.

She lived in the house for 10 years and was caregiver for the past 2. That house is her home. Why make her move?

It doesn’t belong to her. She was able to live rent free for 10 years. If she has saved enough to be able to keep the house, it’s nt the sibling role to pay for her to keep it.

[Anonymous]

OP here- thanks for the helpful comments. The details about the social security payment timing were really helpful. That could make a real difference with this estate.

DH has continued to receive texts from DD1 asking him to agree to paying off car. DD1’s daughter really wants to keep the car apparently. So that may be driving that. I’m not sure of how they plan to split the car with the other grandchild who is son of DD2. And now after DH has been supporting DD1 staying in the house, she announces she may want to sell. But not right now. I can’t keep up and I really don’t care.

To the PP who talked about grieving the family DH wishes he had- that is so accurate. This has brought up a bunch of stuff and reminded us of why we have kept our distance/ boundaries over the years. It’s like watching all of the troubling behavior be repeated all at once. Intellectually Inknow that grief/ sadness in men can often look like anger. But it’s hard to be around.

I guess the bright side is that this situation has encouraged my parents, my brother and me to talk again about the plan for how everything will be allocated when they pass. It is such a sad but important conversation.

My DH has also realized that he wants to try to leave something to each of our kids equally. So we will need to discuss updating our estate planning to include a life insurance policy. Up until now we’ve had term life just in case we died with kids at home.

And I’m not sleeping, so here I am on DCUM. Just ugh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here- thanks for the helpful comments. The details about the social security payment timing were really helpful. That could make a real difference with this estate.

DH has continued to receive texts from DD1 asking him to agree to paying off car. DD1’s daughter really wants to keep the car apparently. So that may be driving that. I’m not sure of how they plan to split the car with the other grandchild who is son of DD2. And now after DH has been supporting DD1 staying in the house, she announces she may want to sell. But not right now. I can’t keep up and I really don’t care.

To the PP who talked about grieving the family DH wishes he had- that is so accurate. This has brought up a bunch of stuff and reminded us of why we have kept our distance/ boundaries over the years. It’s like watching all of the troubling behavior be repeated all at once. Intellectually Inknow that grief/ sadness in men can often look like anger. But it’s hard to be around.

I guess the bright side is that this situation has encouraged my parents, my brother and me to talk again about the plan for how everything will be allocated when they pass. It is such a sad but important conversation.

My DH has also realized that he wants to try to leave something to each of our kids equally. So we will need to discuss updating our estate planning to include a life insurance policy. Up until now we’ve had term life just in case we died with kids at home.

And I’m not sleeping, so here I am on DCUM. Just ugh.

OP, definitely encourage the sister who is executor to get an attorney to guide her through the process. My family is in a bit of a mess right now because of an executor who has refused to use a probate lawyer. She has not kept good records and will,not let anyone else see any of her paperwork. Who knows if money is missing or not? There’s no way to tell and no lawyer to discuss the situation with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Watch out for emergency requests to pay or loan the estate any money. Taxes, upkeep, utilities..do not lend any money to the executor/estate.

Outstanding taxes would be my first concern. People tend to "forget" those for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:14:18

Nope, you can’t legally force 3 heirs to forego their inheritance so that the 4th heir/executor gets a debt free house. It doesn’t matter if the deceased emptied her retirement accounts giving it to one of her kids. It doesn’t matter that one of her kids lived there debt free.

1. Gather and add up all debts.
2. Get a good appraisal for the house, contents, land and car. All assets should be valued at fair market minus any debts specifically against that asset.
3. Identify by % for each heir. Ie DD1 70, DD2 and sons 9 each , grandchildren each 1.5 ..guessing on numbers but you get the points.
4. All non specified assets contents of house, any money in accounts should go toward debt.
5. If the value of the assets is more than the remaining debt. Divide the rest of the debt against the heir %. No heir should be responsible for more debt than their %. Each heir can decide to sell their asset or % to pay the portion of debt. Or personally pay off their portion of debt and keep their % of debt.

You do need a lawyer to do this. SIL eyes will gleam as she happily pockets your checks and then claims no debts were paid.

it's not that one of her kids lived there debt free, it's that she cared for their mother in her last years. She labored for her - the pay was the house.