MIL’s will has left kids fighting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here- well this just keeps getting messier.

DH (aka DS1) had a call with his sisters (DD1 & DD2) today to check in and see how things were going. Youngest brother (Ds2) declined to join. It looks like there may be more debts than expected (Christmas loan from bank, store credit accounts etc). And the balance of the checking account will go down because MIL received a social security check just before she died. So that will need to be paid back.

Executor (DD1) hasn’t opened probate yet because she doesn’t have the receipt from the funeral home. They were filing to get paid directly from the life insurance.

DH was expecting the call to be about what had to happen next about gathering info, notifying people of death etc. But executor has proposed that she change how the life insurance is paid out to go to the estate so that the car loan can be paid off. DH said he didn’t think that was possible after death, so executor then suggested each sibling privately pay their share of the life insurance to pay off the car loan before probate starts so that things are cleaner.

I feel so bad for DH, he wasn’t expecting that at all. The life insurance money is likely to be 3k at most per child, so these aren’t huge dollar amounts. He was thinking that it would cover his travel costs and part of the money we lost when we cancelled our spring break trip for the funeral.

But now DH is dug in on the principal. He just noticed that our kids are the ones who aren’t in the will at all. Before this I had just assumed he wasn’t bothered by that. But now he’s bothered.

How do I talk him down? I had shared the comments from the PP about being ready to set aside the land because it would likely cause hard feelings no matter what. I think that was helpful. But this feels different.

First, I tell people to not forget to breathe. We hold so much in, closing eyes and taking a deep cleansing breathe can help. Dealing with this kind of mess while grieving is always hard. Grieving the actual loss is hard enough, your husband is now faced with grieving the loss of who his mother should have been too. Your DH can’t change what his mother did, he can’t change what his brother did or what his brother may do. He can only change how he reacts to it all. You posted that he wants to help his sister who did the bulk of the caregiving the most. I think focusing on that positive behavior on her part and wanting to help her navigate the executor stuff and beyond will help them move through this. A sort of mantra like, ‘I can’t change what happened, but I can help Susie.’

Talking to a grief counselor when the time allows may help him move forward on the crappy stuff.

Hugs to you all.

[Anonymous]

The sister is being very manipulative. She wants to keep the house so she keeps trying to take funds from her siblings to make sure that happens. Your husband was correct to tell her that she can’t take the life insurance payouts left to her siblings to cover estate debts. By asking her siblings to privately give their share of life insurance payments to pay estate debts she trying to manipulate her siblings into paying the debts so she keeps the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The sister is being very manipulative. She wants to keep the house so she keeps trying to take funds from her siblings to make sure that happens. Your husband was correct to tell her that she can’t take the life insurance payouts left to her siblings to cover estate debts. By asking her siblings to privately give their share of life insurance payments to pay estate debts she trying to manipulate her siblings into paying the debts so she keeps the house.

Yup. This is bizarre. This is a matter of adding up total estate (non-beneficiary designated) assets and subtracting liabilities. It sounds like DD1 was well aware of some of the debts that her mother owed. If her mother wanted the debts to be paid by the share going to the other siblings (rather than coming out of the house), she would have stated so in the will. DD1 should have planned better for herself if she wanted to live in the house after her mother's passing, knowing that her mother had debts. The siblings cannot be compelled to pay DD1 to help her keep the house.

[Anonymous]

This sounds like tiny amounts of money. If you aren't in serious need, I'd just stop paying attention. It's not worth the stress. Let the siblings duke it out. Your DH has no responsibility and even less so since his kids were excluded, so he has no need to pay attention on their part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like tiny amounts of money. If you aren't in serious need, I'd just stop paying attention. It's not worth the stress. Let the siblings duke it out. Your DH has no responsibility and even less so since his kids were excluded, so he has no need to pay attention on their part.

He should try to take on a minimal role, participating calls and calmly stating reality. F not it will just be a bigger mess.

He should point out calmly that the life insurance benefits are not part f the estate and can not be used for estate debts to protect estate assets. When his sister suggests that everyone privately give their share back to pay off the car, I would point out that there is no reason for all the siblings to donate 3K to secure a used car for a 30 year old who already has one and a 16 year old who just got their license. Be clear that the car is an asset. The value of this asset is only its current market value minus the remaining loan balance. Sometimes pointing out the absurdity of someone’s manipulations makes things very clear to all.

[Anonymous]

Your SIL is either incompetent or dishonest.

[Anonymous]

Watch out for emergency requests to pay or loan the estate any money. Taxes, upkeep, utilities..do not lend any money to the executor/estate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like tiny amounts of money. If you aren't in serious need, I'd just stop paying attention. It's not worth the stress. Let the siblings duke it out. Your DH has no responsibility and even less so since his kids were excluded, so he has no need to pay attention on their part.

He should try to take on a minimal role, participating calls and calmly stating reality. F not it will just be a bigger mess.

He should point out calmly that the life insurance benefits are not part f the estate and can not be used for estate debts to protect estate assets. When his sister suggests that everyone privately give their share back to pay off the car, I would point out that there is no reason for all the siblings to donate 3K to secure a used car for a 30 year old who already has one and a 16 year old who just got their license. Be clear that the car is an asset. The value of this asset is only its current market value minus the remaining loan balance. Sometimes pointing out the absurdity of someone’s manipulations makes things very clear to all.

+1, although at this point I would operate under the "assume good intent" principle. Executor is likely under a good deal of stress and grieving. She may feel an obligation to carry out her mother's wishes even if there isn't money to do so. And she may be getting pressure to do so from other family members.

RE: the car - grandma couldn't will something she didn't own. And if there's a car loan then she didn't own the car outright. It makes no sense to the heirs to pitch in $ to buy a portion of the car.

OP, your husband can do what he wants and feel how he wants to feel. But nothing is going to change the fact that it appears that his mother's estate may be largely drained by her debts and that he's unlikely to inherit anything. So he should focus on his sibling relationships and if he wants to maintain them. As far as the estate it seems like a consult with a lawyer is a good idea so that it's clear what goes into the estate, what doesn't (life insurance, retirement), and then how the heirs can obtain the property willed to them (most likely buying it from the estate at fair market value) in the case where the estate doesn't have enough money to pay all the debts. I'd avoid these side agreements and keep it by the books.

[Anonymous]

OP, you are right that this family is dysfunctional. One sibling is trying to take money from her siblings to keep what she feels she is owed. The other siblings are trying to keep what little was left to them in the name of "fairness". These people need to hash it all out honestly. DD1 wants to be able to keep the house. Why doesn't she just say that? Something along the liens of "I've been living here with mom for 10 years and taking care of her for the last 2. I can sell this house to pay the debts, but I would really prefer to not have to move. How can we come to some sort of agreement that keeps me living here?" Siblings can either come to an agreement or they can say "Sorry sis, you knew this was coming. Sell the house."

In any case DD1 really needs to talk to an attorney to figure this out and see what her options are.

[Anonymous]

Stay out of it. Not your family.

[Anonymous]

You've already established that it's a mess. It's your choice to continue to engage in the mess. There is no obligation to continue to engage in the mess. You clearly want to engage in the mess. Go see a counselor for your grief and to learn why you are attracted to and can't pull away from this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are right that this family is dysfunctional. One sibling is trying to take money from her siblings to keep what she feels she is owed. The other siblings are trying to keep what little was left to them in the name of "fairness". These people need to hash it all out honestly. DD1 wants to be able to keep the house. Why doesn't she just say that? Something along the liens of "I've been living here with mom for 10 years and taking care of her for the last 2. I can sell this house to pay the debts, but I would really prefer to not have to move. How can we come to some sort of agreement that keeps me living here?" Siblings can either come to an agreement or they can say "Sorry sis, you knew this was coming. Sell the house."

In any case DD1 really needs to talk to an attorney to figure this out and see what her options are.

But...didn't DD1 forgo employment in order to care for the mother? Basically DS2 got his money in real time and DD1 was going to get her money in the future. Confident that DS2 doesn't see it that way, but that would be the outcome if all this were put into a spreadsheet.

I can't remember DD2's circumstances, but if she didn't really contribute to the care then that's the breaks.

DH should let go of his feelings about getting money to cover trip expenses, etc. Yeah, it sucks, but it is what it is. The important thing here is that he is modeling behavior for his children, especially how they will treat each other and him and his wife going forward. I learned this from my parents and our kids then saw that with how we treat(ed) our parents and siblings in these final years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You've already established that it's a mess. It's your choice to continue to engage in the mess. There is no obligation to continue to engage in the mess. You clearly want to engage in the mess. Go see a counselor for your grief and to learn why you are attracted to and can't pull away from this.

You act like OP is on the call with the siblings egging on her husband. Clearly she is the sounding board for her husband and looking for help. Your attitude towards OP is gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You've already established that it's a mess. It's your choice to continue to engage in the mess. There is no obligation to continue to engage in the mess. You clearly want to engage in the mess. Go see a counselor for your grief and to learn why you are attracted to and can't pull away from this.

You act like OP is on the call with the siblings egging on her husband. Clearly she is the sounding board for her husband and looking for help. Your attitude towards OP is gross.

There are always a few folks on these types of threads who lack all ability in reading comprehension, truly all ability. It's clearly a messy situation. OP has consistently represented that her DH is the one involved. He shares what is happening and she posts here, probably seeking insight/guidance from those who may have been in similar circumstances. Some folks have made rock solid observations to her. Then a few pipe up with nonsense.

OP, good luck to your DH. Hope it works out as best as it can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are right that this family is dysfunctional. One sibling is trying to take money from her siblings to keep what she feels she is owed. The other siblings are trying to keep what little was left to them in the name of "fairness". These people need to hash it all out honestly. DD1 wants to be able to keep the house. Why doesn't she just say that? Something along the liens of "I've been living here with mom for 10 years and taking care of her for the last 2. I can sell this house to pay the debts, but I would really prefer to not have to move. How can we come to some sort of agreement that keeps me living here?" Siblings can either come to an agreement or they can say "Sorry sis, you knew this was coming. Sell the house."

In any case DD1 really needs to talk to an attorney to figure this out and see what her options are.

But...didn't DD1 forgo employment in order to care for the mother? Basically DS2 got his money in real time and DD1 was going to get her money in the future. Confident that DS2 doesn't see it that way, but that would be the outcome if all this were put into a spreadsheet.

I can't remember DD2's circumstances, but if she didn't really contribute to the care then that's the breaks.

DH should let go of his feelings about getting money to cover trip expenses, etc. Yeah, it sucks, but it is what it is. The important thing here is that he is modeling behavior for his children, especially how they will treat each other and him and his wife going forward. I learned this from my parents and our kids then saw that with how we treat(ed) our parents and siblings in these final years.

No, this is ridiculous. Stop trying to guilt OP into giving the SIL money.