CES Lottery

[Anonymous]

Oh I remember that post. It’s interesting that low- and low/moderate FARMS are so close in score threshold. mine is low/moderate at 40% FARMS (which is really high) and yet the threshold for MS magnet was only 1–3points lower than that of the low FARMS. But I digress.

I don’t think CES numbers would be that far off from MS magnet’s, given the same SES households.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At a W feeder school, did not make it to the lottery pool even … wtf

So, being at a W feeder automatically qualifies your kid? wtf

Actually I meant the opposite. Not sure what stats you need to qualify from a W feeder as my kid has the stats required but i am
Sure the cut off for low farms school is higher and therefore my kid did not qualify.

Yes, the cut off for low farms is higher than 85th percentile un-normed. Honestly a kid from a W feeder with an 85th percentile is bright but not really so much of an outlier that they’d really need special magnet level programming. They should probably get ELC at the local school, though. Unfortunately this process may make it hard for you to access that enrichment, which I think is problematic given that they’re providing it without many barriers to students at other schools in the district with way way lower scores and thresholds. They should unnorm the scores at the low farms schools when determining ELC placement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think W feeders has higher cut off than the rest. Just the pool of qualified kids is larger.

If thats true then I don’t understand why he didn’t qualify if the map r is above 85th percentile??

For low farms schools, the top 15% is apparently around 95% or higher.
For moderate low farms schools, it's around 92%.
For high farms schools, it's around 60%, with more in between.
MCPS documents with the exact numbers have been linked here in the not-too-distant past.

You're talking about middle school magnet cutoffs, not CES norms.

Nope I'm talking about CES cutoffs. A document containing them was posted here based on FARMS rate a month or two ago.

If you're talking about this thread, it's middle school magnet info. The cutoff for moderate low FARMs schools was 92nd percentile.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1106379.page

I'm not reading through that, but the post that I'm referring to included data for both CES and middle schools in the documents that were linked. It's also possible. I found that in the freedom of information request that was posted in the MCC PTA group on Facebook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this letter just for the lottery? Will it give information regarding enriched studies at home ES or is that a different letter?

We got a separate letter from our home ES about compacted math.

Thanks for the info! Did you receive this recently?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At a W feeder school, did not make it to the lottery pool even … wtf

So, being at a W feeder automatically qualifies your kid? wtf

Actually I meant the opposite. Not sure what stats you need to qualify from a W feeder as my kid has the stats required but i am
Sure the cut off for low farms school is higher and therefore my kid did not qualify.

If the kid didn’t make the lottery pool, then they didn’t meet the basic score requirements of report card and top 15 percentile MAP-R.

But that’s what I am telling you. He did. Report card is straight A’s and the map r was above 85th so there must be a different cut off for our w feeder school.
It will be helpful if people can post the mapr scores for qualifying students. It would take the guesswork out.

My DC has straight A’s and was well above 85th for MAP-R, and wasn’t recommended for the lottery. We’re up in Clarksburg. The letter did say that there’s a chance for literacy enrichment at the home school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think W feeders has higher cut off than the rest. Just the pool of qualified kids is larger.

If thats true then I don’t understand why he didn’t qualify if the map r is above 85th percentile??

For low farms schools, the top 15% is apparently around 95% or higher.
For moderate low farms schools, it's around 92%.
For high farms schools, it's around 60%, with more in between.
MCPS documents with the exact numbers have been linked here in the not-too-distant past.

You're talking about middle school magnet cutoffs, not CES norms.

Nope I'm talking about CES cutoffs. A document containing them was posted here based on FARMS rate a month or two ago.

If you're talking about this thread, it's middle school magnet info. The cutoff for moderate low FARMs schools was 92nd percentile.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1106379.page

I'm not reading through that, but the post that I'm referring to included data for both CES and middle schools in the documents that were linked. It's also possible. I found that in the freedom of information request that was posted in the MCC PTA group on Facebook.

Here's a link to the document from the FB MCCPTA group that got this info from a FOIA.

This shows the actual ES percentiles by FARMS rate.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10RI7KT2M7JTYlddUL-mtR_PDtOcIJFnG/view?fbclid=IwAR1iqV6xDUhhaGPwo9Xi9Di1lRqO7fjbP5xgInxROEoV5XITyoCnJmkhfB8

[Anonymous]

Received our letter today. DS got a spot at CCES. His MAP-R is 96 and has straight As. My son won’t be accepting his seat in the program because we’re changing school systems, so someone will move off the waitlist!
Ironically, my oldest had the same exact student profile (scores and grades) and didn’t get in 3 years ago before they started the “lottery” system. I can’t help but think my oldest wasn’t accepted because he also had an extensive 504 plan. I have never believed the system, lottery or not, was fair. Too many deserving kids are being left behind. The enrichment at the local ES is a joke.

[Anonymous]

Our DC is in a Low FARMS school, All As, MAP-R 95%, Not even in lottery pool.

Low FARMS as defined in this doc (shared by PP above)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10RI7KT2M7JTYlddUL...fjbP5xgInxROEoV5XITyoCnJmkhfB8

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Received our letter today. DS got a spot at CCES. His MAP-R is 96 and has straight As. My son won’t be accepting his seat in the program because we’re changing school systems, so someone will move off the waitlist!
Ironically, my oldest had the same exact student profile (scores and grades) and didn’t get in 3 years ago before they started the “lottery” system. I can’t help but think my oldest wasn’t accepted because he also had an extensive 504 plan. I have never believed the system, lottery or not, was fair. Too many deserving kids are being left behind. The enrichment at the local ES is a joke.

I think the 504 might count in your favor based on their point system. However, before the lottery 96% wouldn't cut it at CCES. You would likely need 99 or 98% at the lowest pre-lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Received our letter today. DS got a spot at CCES. His MAP-R is 96 and has straight As. My son won’t be accepting his seat in the program because we’re changing school systems, so someone will move off the waitlist!
Ironically, my oldest had the same exact student profile (scores and grades) and didn’t get in 3 years ago before they started the “lottery” system. I can’t help but think my oldest wasn’t accepted because he also had an extensive 504 plan. I have never believed the system, lottery or not, was fair. Too many deserving kids are being left behind. The enrichment at the local ES is a joke.

I think the 504 might count in your favor based on their point system. However, before the lottery 96% wouldn't cut it at CCES. You would likely need 99 or 98% at the lowest pre-lottery.

I don’t think the 504 counts in your favor. My sense is that it’s neutral unless the CES teachers would not be able to provide the accommodations in it, and then that supersedes the CES offer and it’s pulled. Of course mcps won’t actually tell us the real way that piece is used/determined. There were a handful of students with 504s in the CES when my child was there fwiw.

Also, 98 percent wasn’t the lowest pre-lottery. 96 might have made it in with a solid cogat. But feeder school FARMS band mattered then too, just not as much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Received our letter today. DS got a spot at CCES. His MAP-R is 96 and has straight As. My son won’t be accepting his seat in the program because we’re changing school systems, so someone will move off the waitlist!
Ironically, my oldest had the same exact student profile (scores and grades) and didn’t get in 3 years ago before they started the “lottery” system. I can’t help but think my oldest wasn’t accepted because he also had an extensive 504 plan. I have never believed the system, lottery or not, was fair. Too many deserving kids are being left behind. The enrichment at the local ES is a joke.

I think the 504 might count in your favor based on their point system. However, before the lottery 96% wouldn't cut it at CCES. You would likely need 99 or 98% at the lowest pre-lottery.

I don’t think the 504 counts in your favor. My sense is that it’s neutral unless the CES teachers would not be able to provide the accommodations in it, and then that supersedes the CES offer and it’s pulled. Of course mcps won’t actually tell us the real way that piece is used/determined. There were a handful of students with 504s in the CES when my child was there fwiw.

Also, 98 percent wasn’t the lowest pre-lottery. 96 might have made it in with a solid cogat. But feeder school FARMS band mattered then too, just not as much.

I know on their website where they list the criteria (maybe it was for middle school?). They listed things ESOL or 504 counting in your favor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think W feeders has higher cut off than the rest. Just the pool of qualified kids is larger.

If thats true then I don’t understand why he didn’t qualify if the map r is above 85th percentile??

For low farms schools, the top 15% is apparently around 95% or higher.
For moderate low farms schools, it's around 92%.
For high farms schools, it's around 60%, with more in between.
MCPS documents with the exact numbers have been linked here in the not-too-distant past.

You're talking about middle school magnet cutoffs, not CES norms.

Nope I'm talking about CES cutoffs. A document containing them was posted here based on FARMS rate a month or two ago.

If you're talking about this thread, it's middle school magnet info. The cutoff for moderate low FARMs schools was 92nd percentile.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1106379.page

I'm not reading through that, but the post that I'm referring to included data for both CES and middle schools in the documents that were linked. It's also possible. I found that in the freedom of information request that was posted in the MCC PTA group on Facebook.

Here's a link to the document from the FB MCCPTA group that got this info from a FOIA.

This shows the actual ES percentiles by FARMS rate.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10RI7KT2M7JTYlddUL-mtR_PDtOcIJFnG/view?fbclid=IwAR1iqV6xDUhhaGPwo9Xi9Di1lRqO7fjbP5xgInxROEoV5XITyoCnJmkhfB8

Thanks PP. This is helpful, but is from last year and the year before. The actual cut offs may change because it sounds like they figure the local norms every year. I guess a school’s status might change too if the FARMS numbers changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Received our letter today. DS got a spot at CCES. His MAP-R is 96 and has straight As. My son won’t be accepting his seat in the program because we’re changing school systems, so someone will move off the waitlist!
Ironically, my oldest had the same exact student profile (scores and grades) and didn’t get in 3 years ago before they started the “lottery” system. I can’t help but think my oldest wasn’t accepted because he also had an extensive 504 plan. I have never believed the system, lottery or not, was fair. Too many deserving kids are being left behind. The enrichment at the local ES is a joke.

I think the 504 might count in your favor based on their point system. However, before the lottery 96% wouldn't cut it at CCES. You would likely need 99 or 98% at the lowest pre-lottery.

I don’t think the 504 counts in your favor. My sense is that it’s neutral unless the CES teachers would not be able to provide the accommodations in it, and then that supersedes the CES offer and it’s pulled. Of course mcps won’t actually tell us the real way that piece is used/determined. There were a handful of students with 504s in the CES when my child was there fwiw.

Also, 98 percent wasn’t the lowest pre-lottery. 96 might have made it in with a solid cogat. But feeder school FARMS band mattered then too, just not as much.

there are only enough seats in all the CES classes to accommodate around maybe 3% of a grade So under the old process you would need to be within the top X%. The lottery is a little more forgiving but random.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think W feeders has higher cut off than the rest. Just the pool of qualified kids is larger.

If thats true then I don’t understand why he didn’t qualify if the map r is above 85th percentile??

For low farms schools, the top 15% is apparently around 95% or higher.
For moderate low farms schools, it's around 92%.
For high farms schools, it's around 60%, with more in between.
MCPS documents with the exact numbers have been linked here in the not-too-distant past.

You're talking about middle school magnet cutoffs, not CES norms.

Nope I'm talking about CES cutoffs. A document containing them was posted here based on FARMS rate a month or two ago.

If you're talking about this thread, it's middle school magnet info. The cutoff for moderate low FARMs schools was 92nd percentile.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1106379.page

I'm not reading through that, but the post that I'm referring to included data for both CES and middle schools in the documents that were linked. It's also possible. I found that in the freedom of information request that was posted in the MCC PTA group on Facebook.

Here's a link to the document from the FB MCCPTA group that got this info from a FOIA.

This shows the actual ES percentiles by FARMS rate.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10RI7KT2M7JTYlddUL-mtR_PDtOcIJFnG/view?fbclid=IwAR1iqV6xDUhhaGPwo9Xi9Di1lRqO7fjbP5xgInxROEoV5XITyoCnJmkhfB8

Thanks PP. This is helpful, but is from last year and the year before. The actual cut offs may change because it sounds like they figure the local norms every year. I guess a school’s status might change too if the FARMS numbers changed.

I would assume that's true as well. I also get the sense that they've been improving the process since the first year but it's mostly anecdotal.

[Anonymous]

I emailed the email listed on the letter asking what the cutoff was for MAP-R and where my kid landed. Someone replied tonight and said an 89 was considered 68% for our area...so not even close.