CES Lottery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Received our letter today. DS got a spot at CCES. His MAP-R is 96 and has straight As. My son won’t be accepting his seat in the program because we’re changing school systems, so someone will move off the waitlist!
Ironically, my oldest had the same exact student profile (scores and grades) and didn’t get in 3 years ago before they started the “lottery” system. I can’t help but think my oldest wasn’t accepted because he also had an extensive 504 plan. I have never believed the system, lottery or not, was fair. Too many deserving kids are being left behind. The enrichment at the local ES is a joke.

I think the 504 might count in your favor based on their point system. However, before the lottery 96% wouldn't cut it at CCES. You would likely need 99 or 98% at the lowest pre-lottery.

I don’t think the 504 counts in your favor. My sense is that it’s neutral unless the CES teachers would not be able to provide the accommodations in it, and then that supersedes the CES offer and it’s pulled. Of course mcps won’t actually tell us the real way that piece is used/determined. There were a handful of students with 504s in the CES when my child was there fwiw.

Also, 98 percent wasn’t the lowest pre-lottery. 96 might have made it in with a solid cogat. But feeder school FARMS band mattered then too, just not as much.

I know on their website where they list the criteria (maybe it was for middle school?). They listed things ESOL or 504 counting in your favor.

They don’t say anything counts in your favor. They list the various student services and say that they are part of the multiple measure criteria. They do not explain beyond that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Received our letter today. DS got a spot at CCES. His MAP-R is 96 and has straight As. My son won’t be accepting his seat in the program because we’re changing school systems, so someone will move off the waitlist!
Ironically, my oldest had the same exact student profile (scores and grades) and didn’t get in 3 years ago before they started the “lottery” system. I can’t help but think my oldest wasn’t accepted because he also had an extensive 504 plan. I have never believed the system, lottery or not, was fair. Too many deserving kids are being left behind. The enrichment at the local ES is a joke.

I think the 504 might count in your favor based on their point system. However, before the lottery 96% wouldn't cut it at CCES. You would likely need 99 or 98% at the lowest pre-lottery.

I don’t think the 504 counts in your favor. My sense is that it’s neutral unless the CES teachers would not be able to provide the accommodations in it, and then that supersedes the CES offer and it’s pulled. Of course mcps won’t actually tell us the real way that piece is used/determined. There were a handful of students with 504s in the CES when my child was there fwiw.

Also, 98 percent wasn’t the lowest pre-lottery. 96 might have made it in with a solid cogat. But feeder school FARMS band mattered then too, just not as much.

I know on their website where they list the criteria (maybe it was for middle school?). They listed things ESOL or 504 counting in your favor.

They don’t say anything counts in your favor. They list the various student services and say that they are part of the multiple measure criteria. They do not explain beyond that.

IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL are all positive factors for consideration when applying to these special programs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Received our letter today. DS got a spot at CCES. His MAP-R is 96 and has straight As. My son won’t be accepting his seat in the program because we’re changing school systems, so someone will move off the waitlist!
Ironically, my oldest had the same exact student profile (scores and grades) and didn’t get in 3 years ago before they started the “lottery” system. I can’t help but think my oldest wasn’t accepted because he also had an extensive 504 plan. I have never believed the system, lottery or not, was fair. Too many deserving kids are being left behind. The enrichment at the local ES is a joke.

I think the 504 might count in your favor based on their point system. However, before the lottery 96% wouldn't cut it at CCES. You would likely need 99 or 98% at the lowest pre-lottery.

I don’t think the 504 counts in your favor. My sense is that it’s neutral unless the CES teachers would not be able to provide the accommodations in it, and then that supersedes the CES offer and it’s pulled. Of course mcps won’t actually tell us the real way that piece is used/determined. There were a handful of students with 504s in the CES when my child was there fwiw.

Also, 98 percent wasn’t the lowest pre-lottery. 96 might have made it in with a solid cogat. But feeder school FARMS band mattered then too, just not as much.

I know on their website where they list the criteria (maybe it was for middle school?). They listed things ESOL or 504 counting in your favor.

They don’t say anything counts in your favor. They list the various student services and say that they are part of the multiple measure criteria. They do not explain beyond that.

IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL are all positive factors for consideration when applying to these special programs

Please provide a source for this. I really think you are incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I emailed the email listed on the letter asking what the cutoff was for MAP-R and where my kid landed. Someone replied tonight and said an 89 was considered 68% for our area...so not even close.

Thats crazy!! My kid in the same boat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I emailed the email listed on the letter asking what the cutoff was for MAP-R and where my kid landed. Someone replied tonight and said an 89 was considered 68% for our area...so not even close.

Are you worried PP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I emailed the email listed on the letter asking what the cutoff was for MAP-R and where my kid landed. Someone replied tonight and said an 89 was considered 68% for our area...so not even close.

Are you worried PP?

Does this also mean that our kids have no chance of getting ELC?

[Anonymous]

IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL are all positive factors for consideration when applying to these special programs

Please provide a source for this. I really think you are incorrect.

If you have the IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL factor, you are not "Locally Normed". With 85%, you are in the lottery.
If you don't have the above factor, depends, but in a low moderate FARM school, 96% will NOT be in the lottery.
They will adjust points to make it locally normed, and you are not in the lottery anymore. 96 - 12 = 84% percentile

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL are all positive factors for consideration when applying to these special programs

Please provide a source for this. I really think you are incorrect.

If you have the IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL factor, you are not "Locally Normed". With 85%, you are in the lottery.
If you don't have the above factor, depends, but in a low moderate FARM school, 96% will NOT be in the lottery.
They will adjust points to make it locally normed, and you are not in the lottery anymore. 96 - 12 = 84% percentile


I was on the MCPS website a while ago, where they listed admission factors to the application special programs. You'll have to find it yourself since I didn't save the link. It's also been discussed on this board numerous times. Again you'll need to search yourself to find those threads but it really isn't that hard.

[Anonymous]

Pine Crest--kid was in the lottery but not selected, will get ELC next year. Honestly we (including kid) had been going back and forth about wanting a spot. Kid wanted more in-depth, interesting work but was not excited about the longer bus ride and super late dismissal, which would've messed with their long-held after school activity. Staying at the same school with pull-outs for ELC and compacted math seems to be the best option, to be honest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL are all positive factors for consideration when applying to these special programs

Please provide a source for this. I really think you are incorrect.

If you have the IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL factor, you are not "Locally Normed". With 85%, you are in the lottery.
If you don't have the above factor, depends, but in a low moderate FARM school, 96% will NOT be in the lottery.
They will adjust points to make it locally normed, and you are not in the lottery anymore. 96 - 12 = 84% percentile


I was on the MCPS website a while ago, where they listed admission factors to the application special programs. You'll have to find it yourself since I didn't save the link. It's also been discussed on this board numerous times. Again you'll need to search yourself to find those threads but it really isn't that hard.

PP is correct. Look under FAQs
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jmQmo4UZDowNzddfXA56UtyB0KJPSfwiGi9oqqVT1OI/mobilebasic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL are all positive factors for consideration when applying to these special programs

Please provide a source for this. I really think you are incorrect.

If you have the IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL factor, you are not "Locally Normed". With 85%, you are in the lottery.
If you don't have the above factor, depends, but in a low moderate FARM school, 96% will NOT be in the lottery.
They will adjust points to make it locally normed, and you are not in the lottery anymore. 96 - 12 = 84% percentile

I was on the MCPS website a while ago, where they listed admission factors to the application special programs. You'll have to find it yourself since I didn't save the link. It's also been discussed on this board numerous times. Again you'll need to search yourself to find those threads but it really isn't that hard.

PP is correct. Look under FAQs
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jmQmo4UZDowNzddfXA56UtyB0KJPSfwiGi9oqqVT1OI/mobilebasic

I am very familiar with the FAQs. Nowhere in it does it say you are not “locally normed” if you have a 504 or receive FARMS, etc. You assumed/inferred that. I understand how local norming works. I promise you the MCCPTA gifted Ed committee has tried very very hard to get AEI to clarify how these student services are incorporated into the process and has asked if there is a separate lottery for those students or if they have different thresholds. AEI has not answered this question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pine Crest--kid was in the lottery but not selected, will get ELC next year. Honestly we (including kid) had been going back and forth about wanting a spot. Kid wanted more in-depth, interesting work but was not excited about the longer bus ride and super late dismissal, which would've messed with their long-held after school activity. Staying at the same school with pull-outs for ELC and compacted math seems to be the best option, to be honest.

We can relate. DS got ELC/waitlisted also, and though a little disappointed, we’re also relieved because he has a large group of good friends and our current schedule works for us given all our after school activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL are all positive factors for consideration when applying to these special programs

Please provide a source for this. I really think you are incorrect.

If you have the IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL factor, you are not "Locally Normed". With 85%, you are in the lottery.
If you don't have the above factor, depends, but in a low moderate FARM school, 96% will NOT be in the lottery.
They will adjust points to make it locally normed, and you are not in the lottery anymore. 96 - 12 = 84% percentile

I was on the MCPS website a while ago, where they listed admission factors to the application special programs. You'll have to find it yourself since I didn't save the link. It's also been discussed on this board numerous times. Again you'll need to search yourself to find those threads but it really isn't that hard.

PP is correct. Look under FAQs
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jmQmo4UZDowNzddfXA56UtyB0KJPSfwiGi9oqqVT1OI/mobilebasic

I am very familiar with the FAQs. Nowhere in it does it say you are not “locally normed” if you have a 504 or receive FARMS, etc. You assumed/inferred that. I understand how local norming works. I promise you the MCCPTA gifted Ed committee has tried very very hard to get AEI to clarify how these student services are incorporated into the process and has asked if there is a separate lottery for those students or if they have different thresholds. AEI has not answered this question.

The lottery is a very opaque process. My kids are old, and I thought the old process was not very transparent. It seems to have gotten less so. MCPS says lottery and 90% of people think it is a more "fair" process. Nothing has ever been published as to how MCPS considers these various "admissions factors" in its algorithm. Gender is another factor that is considered as well (so programs can be balanced).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL are all positive factors for consideration when applying to these special programs

Please provide a source for this. I really think you are incorrect.

If you have the IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL factor, you are not "Locally Normed". With 85%, you are in the lottery.
If you don't have the above factor, depends, but in a low moderate FARM school, 96% will NOT be in the lottery.
They will adjust points to make it locally normed, and you are not in the lottery anymore. 96 - 12 = 84% percentile

I was on the MCPS website a while ago, where they listed admission factors to the application special programs. You'll have to find it yourself since I didn't save the link. It's also been discussed on this board numerous times. Again you'll need to search yourself to find those threads but it really isn't that hard.

PP is correct. Look under FAQs
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jmQmo4UZDowNzddfXA56UtyB0KJPSfwiGi9oqqVT1OI/mobilebasic

I am very familiar with the FAQs. Nowhere in it does it say you are not “locally normed” if you have a 504 or receive FARMS, etc. You assumed/inferred that. I understand how local norming works. I promise you the MCCPTA gifted Ed committee has tried very very hard to get AEI to clarify how these student services are incorporated into the process and has asked if there is a separate lottery for those students or if they have different thresholds. AEI has not answered this question.

I don’t think you are reading the criteria very thoroughly. It says SpEd, ELD, 504, etc, are some of the measures that are used to evaluate students for the program. While it doesn’t say these students will not be locally normed, these are factors that are taken into account.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I emailed the email listed on the letter asking what the cutoff was for MAP-R and where my kid landed. Someone replied tonight and said an 89 was considered 68% for our area...so not even close.

There's a google doc linked earlier in this thread that will list the cutoffs for each school based on its FARMS rate. It also categorizes ES by their farms rate. These were the cutoffs for the previous two years, but you should be able to see a good approximation of what this year's cutoff really was for your kid's school. I wouldn't really listen to gossip about these numbers when facts are available directly from the county.