CES Lottery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a significant number of 3rd graders who were offered a spot at CES this year. Several of my kids friends. Did they accept an unusually large group of kids this year anticipating that many would decline since there’s really no value in going to a CES anymore? Kids can get all the same enrichment at their home schools.

Nope, you just know a lot of lucky kids. I know of one kid in my kid's circle who got a spot, though most were in the lottery. They can't offer more spots than they have. It's not an airline.

It is such a great program. Too bad they can't offer it to more students.

At one time I would have agreed with this. But what I saw in the Title I school where I teach, expanding access to the CES by opening more centers was a bit of a double edged sword. More students got access, which was first and foremost the proper priority. We sent more kids than ever before. But at the same time, it depleted our 4th and 5th grades. Kids who were on the cusp, or had a spark but weren't quite at CES level, were left behind with no academic peers. Especially our newcomer ESOL students, many of whom had skills in their home language and had been stellar students before, but couldn't yet perform at that level in English. I saw many of them hating school because they had "no friends," because the smart motivated kids were gone.

With compacted math and now ELC, my school is going to be able to give these students the enrichment they need, and from my brief sample (meaning, looking up the kids who got spots and asking them if their parents had talked about a new school next year), most of the parents are keeping their kids at their home school. Again, completely non-scientific, but I would not have received those answers a few years ago. If a kid got a spot, the parents moved heaven and earth to make it work.

I find it hard to believe that sending 2-3 kids to CES is having that much of an impact. Nevertheless, if they opened more centers those kids with no peers would be able to join their friends in the program.

When the program expanded, it was more like 7-10 students, and yes it made an impact. Why open more centers when the programming can be made available at every school?

NP here and this was exactly my child's experience. We declined the CES slot for a variety of personal reasons, but it was a small elementary school to begin with and by the time multiple rounds of invitations had gone out there were at least 10 kids leaving the school in 4th grade. It absolutely had a material impact on the remaining kids, particularly because families of color were much less likely to accept seats. This meant that a class that was relatively racially diverse in 3rd became almost entirely Black and Brown in 4th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a significant number of 3rd graders who were offered a spot at CES this year. Several of my kids friends. Did they accept an unusually large group of kids this year anticipating that many would decline since there’s really no value in going to a CES anymore? Kids can get all the same enrichment at their home schools.

Nope, you just know a lot of lucky kids. I know of one kid in my kid's circle who got a spot, though most were in the lottery. They can't offer more spots than they have. It's not an airline.

It is such a great program. Too bad they can't offer it to more students.

At one time I would have agreed with this. But what I saw in the Title I school where I teach, expanding access to the CES by opening more centers was a bit of a double edged sword. More students got access, which was first and foremost the proper priority. We sent more kids than ever before. But at the same time, it depleted our 4th and 5th grades. Kids who were on the cusp, or had a spark but weren't quite at CES level, were left behind with no academic peers. Especially our newcomer ESOL students, many of whom had skills in their home language and had been stellar students before, but couldn't yet perform at that level in English. I saw many of them hating school because they had "no friends," because the smart motivated kids were gone.

With compacted math and now ELC, my school is going to be able to give these students the enrichment they need, and from my brief sample (meaning, looking up the kids who got spots and asking them if their parents had talked about a new school next year), most of the parents are keeping their kids at their home school. Again, completely non-scientific, but I would not have received those answers a few years ago. If a kid got a spot, the parents moved heaven and earth to make it work.

I find it hard to believe that sending 2-3 kids to CES is having that much of an impact. Nevertheless, if they opened more centers those kids with no peers would be able to join their friends in the program.

When the program expanded, it was more like 7-10 students, and yes it made an impact. Why open more centers when the programming can be made available at every school?

I agree. I think MCPS should offer programming at home schools with ELC in a separate class. Regional centers should be reserved for schools that need to band together because there are not enough peers to have a standalone class in a school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS should stop wasting money on surveys and contractors and start focusing on properly educating all the kids who meet the parameters for CES/enrichment/magnet schools. Or perhaps MCPS needs to also ask why so many kids qualify for these enhancement programs? Maybe educational standards need to go up. These lotteries are ridiculous.

Agreed.

+1 Maybe raise the bar to top 2 percent, the way CTY does, to enter the lottery, and moderate or high FARMs can be locally normed.

Maybe we could actually dedicate money and resources to expanding the enriched studies program so that every kid who qualifies can access that instruction.

Most of the new funds this past year went to increasing the number of Central Office positions.

While there may be new central office positions, ELC is also expanding to all schools so there is supposed to be enrichment available at all schools. How the implement it we will see, but I've heard great things about it from other schools. I find this encouraging.

Correct, and I want to pull this out because I think it will reassure some parents on this thread, but also encourage them to get involved in advocacy. There is a large-scale enlargement of the ELC curriculum coming for next year's 4th graders. Almost every school in MCPS will get the curriculum.

However, contrary to the intent of the ELC and in opposition to best practice for GT education, many schools will be rolling out the new curriculum to every single 4th grader and with no cohorting. That is, it amounts to a change in the reading/ELA curriculum but classes will remain heterogenous.

When the ELC was piloted, it was always meant to serve the needs to highly able learners, and to cohort them with one another for ELA. It was meant to provide an appropriate education, with academic peers, in the home school and without the trouble of changing to a CES.

This matters because MCPS had found that BIPOC kids and poor/working class kids were far less likely to accept CES placements than their white/Asian and middle class peers. Providing an appropriate, differentiated, education in the home school was meant to serve those kids in their home environment while not creating logistical challenges for their families.

So, the good news is that every kid who qualified for the lottery will have access to the ELC curriculum next year (almost). The bad news is that principals may decide NOT to cohort those kids together.

The opportunity to advocate for the lottery-eligible kids to receive the ELC curriculum together is right now. Literally right now. Call/email/show up to PTA meetings and ask your principals how they intend to handle the ELC rollout. If they are going to offer it to every single kid without differentiating or cohorting the highly able learners, get in touch with the MCCPTA Gifted Committee and ask them for help advocating to the next level.

You can check them out here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/875483609961996

MCPS teacher w/ an MCPS 3rd grader here--this is very true. I reached out the reading specialist at my kid's school (qualified for lottery but did not get placed, will receive ELC) to ask about what it would look like in our home school next year, which would help us determine whether we would accept a CES spot if offered. I was told that this:
-a dedicated teacher will pull the ELC students into another classroom for the entire ELA block every day
-all students who qualified for the lottery will be in this group
-classroom teachers and others involved in 3rd grade (I'm guessing SpEd, ESOL, etc) will meet soon and add students who did not qualify for the lottery but teachers feel would benefit from the ELC

This is just what I was told about my kids' home school. I'm sure it will look different in other schools (although this sounds very similar to what my school is doing). As with everything, if you want to know what's happening in your child's school, just ask! Email the reading specialist and ask what ELC implementation will look like.

What you describe is how it should be. In our school, they are moving to an ELC-for-all model, which means that it won't be cohorted separately.

Then this will not be ELC. It will just be a different curriculum for all, which is not the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS should stop wasting money on surveys and contractors and start focusing on properly educating all the kids who meet the parameters for CES/enrichment/magnet schools. Or perhaps MCPS needs to also ask why so many kids qualify for these enhancement programs? Maybe educational standards need to go up. These lotteries are ridiculous.

Agreed.

+1 Maybe raise the bar to top 2 percent, the way CTY does, to enter the lottery, and moderate or high FARMs can be locally normed.

Maybe we could actually dedicate money and resources to expanding the enriched studies program so that every kid who qualifies can access that instruction.

Most of the new funds this past year went to increasing the number of Central Office positions.

While there may be new central office positions, ELC is also expanding to all schools so there is supposed to be enrichment available at all schools. How the implement it we will see, but I've heard great things about it from other schools. I find this encouraging.

Correct, and I want to pull this out because I think it will reassure some parents on this thread, but also encourage them to get involved in advocacy. There is a large-scale enlargement of the ELC curriculum coming for next year's 4th graders. Almost every school in MCPS will get the curriculum.

However, contrary to the intent of the ELC and in opposition to best practice for GT education, many schools will be rolling out the new curriculum to every single 4th grader and with no cohorting. That is, it amounts to a change in the reading/ELA curriculum but classes will remain heterogenous.

When the ELC was piloted, it was always meant to serve the needs to highly able learners, and to cohort them with one another for ELA. It was meant to provide an appropriate education, with academic peers, in the home school and without the trouble of changing to a CES.

This matters because MCPS had found that BIPOC kids and poor/working class kids were far less likely to accept CES placements than their white/Asian and middle class peers. Providing an appropriate, differentiated, education in the home school was meant to serve those kids in their home environment while not creating logistical challenges for their families.

So, the good news is that every kid who qualified for the lottery will have access to the ELC curriculum next year (almost). The bad news is that principals may decide NOT to cohort those kids together.

The opportunity to advocate for the lottery-eligible kids to receive the ELC curriculum together is right now. Literally right now. Call/email/show up to PTA meetings and ask your principals how they intend to handle the ELC rollout. If they are going to offer it to every single kid without differentiating or cohorting the highly able learners, get in touch with the MCCPTA Gifted Committee and ask them for help advocating to the next level.

You can check them out here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/875483609961996

MCPS teacher w/ an MCPS 3rd grader here--this is very true. I reached out the reading specialist at my kid's school (qualified for lottery but did not get placed, will receive ELC) to ask about what it would look like in our home school next year, which would help us determine whether we would accept a CES spot if offered. I was told that this:
-a dedicated teacher will pull the ELC students into another classroom for the entire ELA block every day
-all students who qualified for the lottery will be in this group
-classroom teachers and others involved in 3rd grade (I'm guessing SpEd, ESOL, etc) will meet soon and add students who did not qualify for the lottery but teachers feel would benefit from the ELC

This is just what I was told about my kids' home school. I'm sure it will look different in other schools (although this sounds very similar to what my school is doing). As with everything, if you want to know what's happening in your child's school, just ask! Email the reading specialist and ask what ELC implementation will look like.

What you describe is how it should be. In our school, they are moving to an ELC-for-all model, which means that it won't be cohorted separately.

Then this will not be ELC. It will just be a different curriculum for all, which is not the point.

Agreed and it is so frustrating that our principal is doing this. It doesn't serve children on either end of the spectrum well and I wish Central office would step in and do something about it.

[Anonymous]

I know the deadline to accept/decline was about a week ago. Has anyone heard of any movement to fill newly vacant seats?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS should stop wasting money on surveys and contractors and start focusing on properly educating all the kids who meet the parameters for CES/enrichment/magnet schools. Or perhaps MCPS needs to also ask why so many kids qualify for these enhancement programs? Maybe educational standards need to go up. These lotteries are ridiculous.

Agreed.

+1 Maybe raise the bar to top 2 percent, the way CTY does, to enter the lottery, and moderate or high FARMs can be locally normed.

Maybe we could actually dedicate money and resources to expanding the enriched studies program so that every kid who qualifies can access that instruction.

Most of the new funds this past year went to increasing the number of Central Office positions.

While there may be new central office positions, ELC is also expanding to all schools so there is supposed to be enrichment available at all schools. How the implement it we will see, but I've heard great things about it from other schools. I find this encouraging.

Correct, and I want to pull this out because I think it will reassure some parents on this thread, but also encourage them to get involved in advocacy. There is a large-scale enlargement of the ELC curriculum coming for next year's 4th graders. Almost every school in MCPS will get the curriculum.

However, contrary to the intent of the ELC and in opposition to best practice for GT education, many schools will be rolling out the new curriculum to every single 4th grader and with no cohorting. That is, it amounts to a change in the reading/ELA curriculum but classes will remain heterogenous.

When the ELC was piloted, it was always meant to serve the needs to highly able learners, and to cohort them with one another for ELA. It was meant to provide an appropriate education, with academic peers, in the home school and without the trouble of changing to a CES.

This matters because MCPS had found that BIPOC kids and poor/working class kids were far less likely to accept CES placements than their white/Asian and middle class peers. Providing an appropriate, differentiated, education in the home school was meant to serve those kids in their home environment while not creating logistical challenges for their families.

So, the good news is that every kid who qualified for the lottery will have access to the ELC curriculum next year (almost). The bad news is that principals may decide NOT to cohort those kids together.

The opportunity to advocate for the lottery-eligible kids to receive the ELC curriculum together is right now. Literally right now. Call/email/show up to PTA meetings and ask your principals how they intend to handle the ELC rollout. If they are going to offer it to every single kid without differentiating or cohorting the highly able learners, get in touch with the MCCPTA Gifted Committee and ask them for help advocating to the next level.

You can check them out here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/875483609961996

MCPS teacher w/ an MCPS 3rd grader here--this is very true. I reached out the reading specialist at my kid's school (qualified for lottery but did not get placed, will receive ELC) to ask about what it would look like in our home school next year, which would help us determine whether we would accept a CES spot if offered. I was told that this:
-a dedicated teacher will pull the ELC students into another classroom for the entire ELA block every day
-all students who qualified for the lottery will be in this group
-classroom teachers and others involved in 3rd grade (I'm guessing SpEd, ESOL, etc) will meet soon and add students who did not qualify for the lottery but teachers feel would benefit from the ELC

This is just what I was told about my kids' home school. I'm sure it will look different in other schools (although this sounds very similar to what my school is doing). As with everything, if you want to know what's happening in your child's school, just ask! Email the reading specialist and ask what ELC implementation will look like.

What you describe is how it should be. In our school, they are moving to an ELC-for-all model, which means that it won't be cohorted separately.

Then this will not be ELC. It will just be a different curriculum for all, which is not the point.

ELC for all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know the deadline to accept/decline was about a week ago. Has anyone heard of any movement to fill newly vacant seats?

I was just coming here to look for that...not hearing anything yet.

[Anonymous]

For what it's worth, we decline our spot at the Drew CES. The principal ran a FAQ session and then also did our tour, and honestly-she really turned us off the program. She seemed annoyed about having to do all of this, which I suppose I understand-having to court people to come to your school is likely exhausting-but I just didn't love it. Our daughter's home school is also physically better kept up with a nicer playground and facilities, and so that plus the long bus ride, and being able to get ELC in the home school made us decline. I don't know if that was the right decision or not-like the teacher above, I really did think about having her try it out, but I don't know. I'm sure I'll always wonder if I did the right thing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a significant number of 3rd graders who were offered a spot at CES this year. Several of my kids friends. Did they accept an unusually large group of kids this year anticipating that many would decline since there’s really no value in going to a CES anymore? Kids can get all the same enrichment at their home schools.

Nope, you just know a lot of lucky kids. I know of one kid in my kid's circle who got a spot, though most were in the lottery. They can't offer more spots than they have. It's not an airline.

It is such a great program. Too bad they can't offer it to more students.

At one time I would have agreed with this. But what I saw in the Title I school where I teach, expanding access to the CES by opening more centers was a bit of a double edged sword. More students got access, which was first and foremost the proper priority. We sent more kids than ever before. But at the same time, it depleted our 4th and 5th grades. Kids who were on the cusp, or had a spark but weren't quite at CES level, were left behind with no academic peers. Especially our newcomer ESOL students, many of whom had skills in their home language and had been stellar students before, but couldn't yet perform at that level in English. I saw many of them hating school because they had "no friends," because the smart motivated kids were gone.

With compacted math and now ELC, my school is going to be able to give these students the enrichment they need, and from my brief sample (meaning, looking up the kids who got spots and asking them if their parents had talked about a new school next year), most of the parents are keeping their kids at their home school. Again, completely non-scientific, but I would not have received those answers a few years ago. If a kid got a spot, the parents moved heaven and earth to make it work.

I find it hard to believe that sending 2-3 kids to CES is having that much of an impact. Nevertheless, if they opened more centers those kids with no peers would be able to join their friends in the program.

When the program expanded, it was more like 7-10 students, and yes it made an impact. Why open more centers when the programming can be made available at every school?

I agree. I think MCPS should offer programming at home schools with ELC in a separate class. Regional centers should be reserved for schools that need to band together because there are not enough peers to have a standalone class in a school.

Especially at schools where the parents pay a lot of property taxes because their children deserve better educations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the deadline to accept/decline was about a week ago. Has anyone heard of any movement to fill newly vacant seats?

I was just coming here to look for that...not hearing anything yet.

Anything?

[Anonymous]

We have friends with kids at Cold spring CES. FWIW I’m thankful my kids were never invited; they are thriving in fourth grade, have the best friendships and community, and my friends at CES said it’s a pressure cooker of weirdos and they can’t wait to leave. Parents are a nightmare of overbearing overachievers and kids and anxious reflection if that vibe. Thankful to stay at my small wonderful community school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a significant number of 3rd graders who were offered a spot at CES this year. Several of my kids friends. Did they accept an unusually large group of kids this year anticipating that many would decline since there’s really no value in going to a CES anymore? Kids can get all the same enrichment at their home schools.

Nope, you just know a lot of lucky kids. I know of one kid in my kid's circle who got a spot, though most were in the lottery. They can't offer more spots than they have. It's not an airline.

It is such a great program. Too bad they can't offer it to more students.

At one time I would have agreed with this. But what I saw in the Title I school where I teach, expanding access to the CES by opening more centers was a bit of a double edged sword. More students got access, which was first and foremost the proper priority. We sent more kids than ever before. But at the same time, it depleted our 4th and 5th grades. Kids who were on the cusp, or had a spark but weren't quite at CES level, were left behind with no academic peers. Especially our newcomer ESOL students, many of whom had skills in their home language and had been stellar students before, but couldn't yet perform at that level in English. I saw many of them hating school because they had "no friends," because the smart motivated kids were gone.

With compacted math and now ELC, my school is going to be able to give these students the enrichment they need, and from my brief sample (meaning, looking up the kids who got spots and asking them if their parents had talked about a new school next year), most of the parents are keeping their kids at their home school. Again, completely non-scientific, but I would not have received those answers a few years ago. If a kid got a spot, the parents moved heaven and earth to make it work.

I find it hard to believe that sending 2-3 kids to CES is having that much of an impact. Nevertheless, if they opened more centers those kids with no peers would be able to join their friends in the program.

When the program expanded, it was more like 7-10 students, and yes it made an impact. Why open more centers when the programming can be made available at every school?

I agree. I think MCPS should offer programming at home schools with ELC in a separate class. Regional centers should be reserved for schools that need to band together because there are not enough peers to have a standalone class in a school.

I think that will have a negative impact on high FARMS schools. Sure, it's more convenient for students assigned to the affluent schools who have had outside enrichment but at schools with fewer high-fliers there often isn't a large enough high-performing cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have friends with kids at Cold spring CES. FWIW I’m thankful my kids were never invited; they are thriving in fourth grade, have the best friendships and community, and my friends at CES said it’s a pressure cooker of weirdos and they can’t wait to leave. Parents are a nightmare of overbearing overachievers and kids and anxious reflection if that vibe. Thankful to stay at my small wonderful community school.

Another great thing about Cold Spring is in addition to having AIM offered in 5th grade which gives kids a leg up in math, class sizes are only 19 and it's not even a Title 1 school. This is because it's under-enrolled which is ironic since its neighbor schools are overcrowded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For what it's worth, we decline our spot at the Drew CES. The principal ran a FAQ session and then also did our tour, and honestly-she really turned us off the program. She seemed annoyed about having to do all of this, which I suppose I understand-having to court people to come to your school is likely exhausting-but I just didn't love it. Our daughter's home school is also physically better kept up with a nicer playground and facilities, and so that plus the long bus ride, and being able to get ELC in the home school made us decline. I don't know if that was the right decision or not-like the teacher above, I really did think about having her try it out, but I don't know. I'm sure I'll always wonder if I did the right thing!

You are very insightful. You dodged a bullet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have friends with kids at Cold spring CES. FWIW I’m thankful my kids were never invited; they are thriving in fourth grade, have the best friendships and community, and my friends at CES said it’s a pressure cooker of weirdos and they can’t wait to leave. Parents are a nightmare of overbearing overachievers and kids and anxious reflection if that vibe. Thankful to stay at my small wonderful community school.

Yes I totally know what you mean. Those types of parents m are hyper competitive, and their kids become the same way. I get the sense when you encounter those types that they instantly want to compare test scores so they can feel superior or worse than you. I stay away from them.