Less Selective College but the right fit?

[Anonymous]

Your answer is clear as day. Read your first three sentences of your post. This is all she should be thinking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Malcolm Gladwell gave a talk about this. He suggests that students choose the less selective school. https://youtu.be/7J-wCHDJYmo

Julie Lythcott-Haims also suggests this in her podcast, Getting In. She said going to a school where you are at the top will give you more opportunities and attention at that school.

This happened to my kid.

She would not have gotten a glance at the schools she just eeked into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ll give an in state example. My kid is a Junior. 4.75 weighted GPA. Strong SATs. One parent is alumni of W&M. It’s not a given (obviously), but our counselor thinks our kid has a very good chance to get into W&M ED. But we visited W&M and didn’t really like it. My kid realizes she wants to be in an urban environment. We’re from Richmond. Where is basically the only urban college in the state college in VA? VCU. VCU would be a great cultural fit for my kid. But I admit we’re both pretty hung up on the huge ranking difference. Like why did she do SO much work? So, I don’t know what we will do. Other options are looking at urban schools in other medium sized cities. (New York, Boston, etc…were too big for her.) Or I mean so what if she DOES go to VCU? She’d get in the honors college. She could easily double major. She’d probably get some kind of scholarship. But I have to admit the snobby part of me would feel like she could go somewhere “better.” But my husband and I both did parts of our education at VCU, and we both had great experiences!

She worked hard so she would have options, from which to choose.
Not so she could impress people on social media.

(Didn't you also raise her to try her best?)

The best choice from among those options is personal, not something she should dictate to USNWR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is so vague.

What are the schools, majors, and other criterion

Why does that matter? You'll just tell her to pick the higher ranked school even though she feels the other is better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Picking a college is unfortunately like so many big $$$ decisions...you try to make the best decision, but you are doing so with only like 5% of the information you really need...and you won't know it until you live it.

Know many kids that had lengthy deliberations and picked their "fit" school only to be dissatisfied. Know many kids that kind of randomly picked a school based on ranking and general location and loved it.

Honestly, my only advice is make sure a kid isn't picking the school they visited in April over the school they visited in January in a Northern climate. Seasonal apples-to-apples really is important.

Hahaha! Terrific advice

[Anonymous]

Be happy and shine at the school that feels like the better fit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Picking a college is unfortunately like so many big $$$ decisions...you try to make the best decision, but you are doing so with only like 5% of the information you really need...and you won't know it until you live it.

Know many kids that had lengthy deliberations and picked their "fit" school only to be dissatisfied. Know many kids that kind of randomly picked a school based on ranking and general location and loved it.

Honestly, my only advice is make sure a kid isn't picking the school they visited in April over the school they visited in January in a Northern climate. Seasonal apples-to-apples really is important.

Hahaha! Terrific advice

+1 I kind of think that for the most part kids' perceptions of "fit" are based on next to nothing but vague impressions, stereotypes, and magical thinking. But placebos do work, and it's the kids who are going to have to live with their decisions. So if I had a kid who firmly believed in a "fit" narrative about a lesser school, I would question it, get them to try and turn it into concrete aspects that can be compared across schools etc, but ultimately let them make the decision (given that it meets the financial options we laid out).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll give an in state example. My kid is a Junior. 4.75 weighted GPA. Strong SATs. One parent is alumni of W&M. It’s not a given (obviously), but our counselor thinks our kid has a very good chance to get into W&M ED. But we visited W&M and didn’t really like it. My kid realizes she wants to be in an urban environment. We’re from Richmond. Where is basically the only urban college in the state college in VA? VCU. VCU would be a great cultural fit for my kid. But I admit we’re both pretty hung up on the huge ranking difference. Like why did she do SO much work? So, I don’t know what we will do. Other options are looking at urban schools in other medium sized cities. (New York, Boston, etc…were too big for her.) Or I mean so what if she DOES go to VCU? She’d get in the honors college. She could easily double major. She’d probably get some kind of scholarship. But I have to admit the snobby part of me would feel like she could go somewhere “better.” But my husband and I both did parts of our education at VCU, and we both had great experiences!

You might consider schools a bit less selective where your kid could get a merit scholarship. GW, American, and Pitt come to mind. Or are DC and Pittsburgh too big? Also, Charlottesville is fast becoming a medium-sized city.

We are now thinking of these kinds of schools. I don't know if she'd get merit at GW. I don't think they give a lot of merit? Do they? But I know American does, and I could see her liking DC. Pittsburgh is also an option, although we have never actually been. It's one of those cities I keep meaning to visit but never do. Carnegie Mellon would be a great fit for her, but it's soooo competitive I could never count on her getting in. But pretty much everyone I know does rolling admission to University of Pittsburgh.

I don't think UVA is the right fit for her. She might get in ED. It's kind of a crap shoot. But Charlottesville is still really a "town."

I just mentioned it because VCU is honestly a great cultural fit for her. She's queer. She's artsy, but she also loves science. She likes the cityness but it's not tooo big. She really hasn't spent a lot of time in downtown Richmond because she grew up in the burbs. But we are probably "too" close, and VCU is not ranked very highly.

I keep trying to justify a reason for her to go to the arts school because it's so highly ranked (assuming she would get in). She does love art, but I swore I would not have a kid who majored in something impractical--like I did. Up side--she'd probably get a scholarship and with all of her AP credits she could stay for 5-6 years as an undergrad and get a degree in art and something else more "practical." And then we'd have tons of money to send her wherever she wanted for grad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child has been accepted into a college with a less selective ranking. She likes the school, it's a good fit and she was awarded considerable merit aid. She was also accepted into a more selective college and program. It's not as good of a fit. Older campus and not exactly the type of location she feels comfortable living in.

I've told her to go with her gut but she's struggling that she feels like she *should* like the more selective/prestigious school.

Any tips? I'm basically trying to guide her to where she will be happy but even I'm wondering how much I should push.

NP. I turned down a T20 for a T300-400 based on fit and never regretted it. Went to a T5 for grad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll give an in state example. My kid is a Junior. 4.75 weighted GPA. Strong SATs. One parent is alumni of W&M. It’s not a given (obviously), but our counselor thinks our kid has a very good chance to get into W&M ED. But we visited W&M and didn’t really like it. My kid realizes she wants to be in an urban environment. We’re from Richmond. Where is basically the only urban college in the state college in VA? VCU. VCU would be a great cultural fit for my kid. But I admit we’re both pretty hung up on the huge ranking difference. Like why did she do SO much work? So, I don’t know what we will do. Other options are looking at urban schools in other medium sized cities. (New York, Boston, etc…were too big for her.) Or I mean so what if she DOES go to VCU? She’d get in the honors college. She could easily double major. She’d probably get some kind of scholarship. But I have to admit the snobby part of me would feel like she could go somewhere “better.” But my husband and I both did parts of our education at VCU, and we both had great experiences!

She worked hard so she would have options, from which to choose.
Not so she could impress people on social media.

(Didn't you also raise her to try her best?)

The best choice from among those options is personal, not something she should dictate to USNWR.

Oh, yeah! You are totally right! Someone on here recommended that Jeff Selingo book to me, and it was really great. In it, he mentions how easy it is to get caught up in the snobbery of the school choice. I mean, I know she has a 4.75 but I don't go telling everyone that. Somehow it does bother me that people will think she couldn't get in somewhere "better." I know it's really stupid. I know it doesn't matter. I know "better" is subjective. Like I said, my husband and I have both done parts of our own educations at VCU and both had good experiences with great professors.

But it less stupid for her to be "lucky" enough to get into like Haverford and then come out with us spending $320,000, so I can tell everyone she went to Haverford? No. It wouldn't be stupid if she was totally in love with Haverford and it was the perfect fit for her, but since she doesn't really know what she wants except that now she think she wants an urban campus in a medium sized city--it kind of would be dumb for us to shell out all that money because that's A LOT of money for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to the admitted students day at both schools with an open mind. How far apart in rankings are we talking? My DC is in at a private school ranked around 40 (well known in major), but really prefers a public school admitted to that ranks around 120. I feel pretty strongly DC should go with the higher ranked school. DC likes both schools and likes the social scene, football games, etc. at the lower ranked school.

Please let your DC pick themselves! Don't keep mentioning the "rankings" It is their college experience and anyone who can get admitted to ~#40 is smart and motivated and will do well anywhere they go. But they will do best where they are happiest. Imagine if you force them to pick ~#40 and they are miserable--they will blame you forever and that would not be the type of relationship I'd want with my kid

But did you read the part where I said DC preferred the lower ranked school because of the football games, social scene, etc at a big state school? You think this is a valid reason to prefer one school over another when they are so vastly apart on the rankings?

Yes. Look at the Malcolm Gladwell talk. The research shows kids in the top third at any school will do well anywhere. He says don’t be the bottom third—not even at Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:my kid was in that situation last year and picked the lower ranked school and I have never seen them so happy. They have friends who decided to go the other route and many are miserable.

Pick the school that is right for you, not your parents, not so you can say you went to XYZ. happiness and health over quality of education every time.

I agree happiness and health are major factors but why assume that the education is that different at a school ranked 60 vs 30? Unless you are looking at a niche program it likely isn’t for undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to the admitted students day at both schools with an open mind. How far apart in rankings are we talking? My DC is in at a private school ranked around 40 (well known in major), but really prefers a public school admitted to that ranks around 120. I feel pretty strongly DC should go with the higher ranked school. DC likes both schools and likes the social scene, football games, etc. at the lower ranked school.

Please let your DC pick themselves! Don't keep mentioning the "rankings" It is their college experience and anyone who can get admitted to ~#40 is smart and motivated and will do well anywhere they go. But they will do best where they are happiest. Imagine if you force them to pick ~#40 and they are miserable--they will blame you forever and that would not be the type of relationship I'd want with my kid

But did you read the part where I said DC preferred the lower ranked school because of the football games, social scene, etc at a big state school? You think this is a valid reason to prefer one school over another when they are so vastly apart on the rankings?

Yes. Look at the Malcolm Gladwell talk. The research shows kids in the top third at any school will do well anywhere. He says don’t be the bottom third—not even at Harvard.

But don’t the bottom third at Harvard who graduated have a diploma from Harvard too?
I think this applies to HS for sure but not elite institution full of 18-22 yr olds. My parent graduated from an elite college, bottom third, went to a “less impressive” masters got a 4.0 there went to get a PhD then started their own tech firm in the 80s. It went well. They ended up as or more successful than anyone else from their undergrad institution. So that story of the bottom third “from anywhere” can be bogus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to the admitted students day at both schools with an open mind. How far apart in rankings are we talking? My DC is in at a private school ranked around 40 (well known in major), but really prefers a public school admitted to that ranks around 120. I feel pretty strongly DC should go with the higher ranked school. DC likes both schools and likes the social scene, football games, etc. at the lower ranked school.

Please let your DC pick themselves! Don't keep mentioning the "rankings" It is their college experience and anyone who can get admitted to ~#40 is smart and motivated and will do well anywhere they go. But they will do best where they are happiest. Imagine if you force them to pick ~#40 and they are miserable--they will blame you forever and that would not be the type of relationship I'd want with my kid

But did you read the part where I said DC preferred the lower ranked school because of the football games, social scene, etc at a big state school? You think this is a valid reason to prefer one school over another when they are so vastly apart on the rankings?

Yes. Look at the Malcolm Gladwell talk. The research shows kids in the top third at any school will do well anywhere. He says don’t be the bottom third—not even at Harvard.

But don’t the bottom third at Harvard who graduated have a diploma from Harvard too?
I think this applies to HS for sure but not elite institution full of 18-22 yr olds. My parent graduated from an elite college, bottom third, went to a “less impressive” masters got a 4.0 there went to get a PhD then started their own tech firm in the 80s. It went well. They ended up as or more successful than anyone else from their undergrad institution. So that story of the bottom third “from anywhere” can be bogus.

The Malcolm Gladwell talk/data is specifically about persisting in difficult STEM majors. And it included data from top ranked schools. If you are in the bottom third at Harvard, yes, you still have a Harvard degree but maybe it's English not STEM. And, maybe that's fine with you. But if you wanted to be a doctor, for example, you'd be better off going to the school where you can be in the top tier and be able to stay on that path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to the admitted students day at both schools with an open mind. How far apart in rankings are we talking? My DC is in at a private school ranked around 40 (well known in major), but really prefers a public school admitted to that ranks around 120. I feel pretty strongly DC should go with the higher ranked school. DC likes both schools and likes the social scene, football games, etc. at the lower ranked school.

Please let your DC pick themselves! Don't keep mentioning the "rankings" It is their college experience and anyone who can get admitted to ~#40 is smart and motivated and will do well anywhere they go. But they will do best where they are happiest. Imagine if you force them to pick ~#40 and they are miserable--they will blame you forever and that would not be the type of relationship I'd want with my kid

But did you read the part where I said DC preferred the lower ranked school because of the football games, social scene, etc at a big state school? You think this is a valid reason to prefer one school over another when they are so vastly apart on the rankings?

Yes. Look at the Malcolm Gladwell talk. The research shows kids in the top third at any school will do well anywhere. He says don’t be the bottom third—not even at Harvard.

Why do you assume the DC will be at the bottom of the higher ranked school? Maybe DC will be in the top 1/3 of the #40 ranked school. Isn't that better than being at the top of the #120 ranked school?