S/O SUVs are a bad environmental choice, plus they are more dangerous. Don't buy SUVs.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You know that a Camry and RAV4 weigh the same, right?

The Rav4 sits up higher and is thus more dangerous to pedestrians. Also, to the PP who said she bought an SUV for visibility -- thing about what you are trying to make visible. SUV's make it easier to see over things, but they REDUCE visibility around your vehicle. Even with back up cameras, sitting up higher in your vehicle means that you are less able to see small objects (and small people) close to your vehicle.

It feels good to be able to see farther, but what is the actual benefit of that? Wouldn't you rather be able to better see a bike, a child, a dog, a ball rolling into the street, from a safety perspective? You are buying an SUV so you can see over things, but what about the stuff your SUV keeps you from seeing?

I have a 360 camera and crazy sensitive sensors. I’m LESS likely to hit something than my old sedan with poor visibility and no cameras/sensors.

But if you had a sedan with cameras and sensors...

You still sit much lower in a sedan. Go test drive one and stop spouting off your ignorance.

I'm a NP, but did you read any of this thread-sure in your new SUV you feel safer, but if you had replaced your old sedan with a new sedan the road would be safer for everyone. So if you only care about yourself own it but don't call others who have better values ignorant. Ignorant.

Well I think my values are better since I'm in the business of protecting my family in case of collision. You ARE ignorant if you can't see that some people differing values that are not inferior to your pie in the sky ones.

Are you not in the business of protecting your family when they are on sidewalks, crossing streets, playing in the yard or in a friends yard, etc.? Because I am in that business and that is why I hate SUVs.

Fun fact: if a driver loses control of their vehicle and runs into your family sitting on the outdoor patio of a coffee shop, you and your children are more likely to die if the vehicle is an SUV than if it is a sedan.

So when I rail against SUVs, I'm actually trying to protect you and your family, even though you don't give a flying f--k about me and mine. Have a good one! I hope you don't have to spend any time outside your SUV!

Well, I can get hit by a meteor just walking down the street too. I'll still take my chances since most collisions don't occur by drivers plowing people sitting in a coffee shop (statistics). Since I'm statistically more likely to be involved in a collision while in my vehicle, I feel pretty good about my choice. Your concern is touching albeit misguided.

Statistics, huh? According to the IIHS, it's true that a greater proportion of passenger and driver deaths in multi-vehicle collisions were riding in cars. However, SUVs and pickups are more likely to get into single-vehicle crashes, and therefore account for more driver and passenger deaths in single-vehicle crashes.

Pedestrians deaths from vehicle account for about 17% of all vehicular deaths. That's about 1 in 6. So a little more likely than a meteor hitting you as you walk down the street.

You think you SUV is safer for you, but that's arguable and based more on your beliefs than on facts. It's definitely more dangerous for other people -- that's just fact.

So 17% of deaths are pedestrians but I should still care more about that than a collision with another car? Bless your heart.

Do you always just read the parts that support your point and ignore the parts that don't. Your SUV is more likely to tip over and kill the people inside, dummy.

Also, which SUV are you buying. In a multi-car collision, you are more likely to die if you are in the smaller vehicle. As someone upthread noted, the majority of car sales in the US are now SUVs. So are you going out and buying the largest possible SUV? If not, then your family is less safe -- your crossover isn't going to cut it when it gets hit by something larger. PLUS it's more likely to kill pedestrians. PLUS its more likely to get into an accident all by itself.

All by itself, huh. OK, now I know you're off your rocker. As I have stated numerous time, my priority is my family. My SUV still stands a much better chance than your Prius in ANY collision. You drive whatever the hell you want, teach your children to cross the street properly and don't worry about what the rest of us are doing. I promise you, it will make your life a whole lot happier.

Wow victim blaming at its finest. Yep. its the kids crossing the streets fault. God you are despicable.

Yeah, no child has EVER run into the street chasing after a ball. All drives (all SUV drivers) are just murderous animals. Yeah, I'm the despicable one.

Are you ok? Like you don't sounds mentally all there.

Yes, children sometimes run into the street. They lack the practical experience or cognitive ability to know better. This is just how it is, there is no way to change this. Many kids are killed by vehicles because they get three steps ahead of their parents, or they suddenly pull their hand away and dash off because they are distracted or enticed by something. If you have had a young child, you know that you cannot perfectly control every movement they make.

One solution to this is to just not let children go places that there are cars. This is what a lot of people have started to do. Kids don't play in front yards. They definitely don't play in the streets. They don't play in parks unless the parks are gated off. And so on. One solution is to just cage up the kids so that they can never accidentally run into the street, which is something kids will do sometimes because they are kids.

Another solution would be to change the way our lives are set up so that kids can be safer without having to be caged up. That means: lowering speed limits, eliminating traffic on more roads, widening sidewalks. It also means reducing the number of vehicles on the road that pose the gravest threat to children -- SUVs.

The difference between you and me is that you think you can drive your SUV and expect small children to just adjust their behavior to accommodate it, whereas I think you, the adult, should adjust your behavior and choices to accommodate the inevitable behavior of small children so that they can be protected.

So teaching your child basic road safety is somehow catering to my SUV loving lifestyle? Got it. You are INSANE! Whether you live here or in Europe children need to learn how to be safe outside/when crossing the street. YES THEY NEED TO KNOW that cars are going to be on the street and can kill them. In Europe the streets are a lot narrower and children routinely don't have the parks to play in they do here. Take your meds lady.
You keep trying to

You cannot ensure all 3 year olds understand proper road safety. It is insane to expect that. We should make choices as a society that accept the idea that a small child who does not understand the consequences of running into a street.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know that a Camry and RAV4 weigh the same, right?

The Rav4 sits up higher and is thus more dangerous to pedestrians. Also, to the PP who said she bought an SUV for visibility -- thing about what you are trying to make visible. SUV's make it easier to see over things, but they REDUCE visibility around your vehicle. Even with back up cameras, sitting up higher in your vehicle means that you are less able to see small objects (and small people) close to your vehicle.

It feels good to be able to see farther, but what is the actual benefit of that? Wouldn't you rather be able to better see a bike, a child, a dog, a ball rolling into the street, from a safety perspective? You are buying an SUV so you can see over things, but what about the stuff your SUV keeps you from seeing?

I have a 360 camera and crazy sensitive sensors. I’m LESS likely to hit something than my old sedan with poor visibility and no cameras/sensors.

But if you had a sedan with cameras and sensors...

You still sit much lower in a sedan. Go test drive one and stop spouting off your ignorance.

I'm a NP, but did you read any of this thread-sure in your new SUV you feel safer, but if you had replaced your old sedan with a new sedan the road would be safer for everyone. So if you only care about yourself own it but don't call others who have better values ignorant. Ignorant.

Well I think my values are better since I'm in the business of protecting my family in case of collision. You ARE ignorant if you can't see that some people differing values that are not inferior to your pie in the sky ones.

Are you not in the business of protecting your family when they are on sidewalks, crossing streets, playing in the yard or in a friends yard, etc.? Because I am in that business and that is why I hate SUVs.

Fun fact: if a driver loses control of their vehicle and runs into your family sitting on the outdoor patio of a coffee shop, you and your children are more likely to die if the vehicle is an SUV than if it is a sedan.

So when I rail against SUVs, I'm actually trying to protect you and your family, even though you don't give a flying f--k about me and mine. Have a good one! I hope you don't have to spend any time outside your SUV!

Well, I can get hit by a meteor just walking down the street too. I'll still take my chances since most collisions don't occur by drivers plowing people sitting in a coffee shop (statistics). Since I'm statistically more likely to be involved in a collision while in my vehicle, I feel pretty good about my choice. Your concern is touching albeit misguided.

Statistics, huh? According to the IIHS, it's true that a greater proportion of passenger and driver deaths in multi-vehicle collisions were riding in cars. However, SUVs and pickups are more likely to get into single-vehicle crashes, and therefore account for more driver and passenger deaths in single-vehicle crashes.

Pedestrians deaths from vehicle account for about 17% of all vehicular deaths. That's about 1 in 6. So a little more likely than a meteor hitting you as you walk down the street.

You think you SUV is safer for you, but that's arguable and based more on your beliefs than on facts. It's definitely more dangerous for other people -- that's just fact.

So 17% of deaths are pedestrians but I should still care more about that than a collision with another car? Bless your heart.

Do you always just read the parts that support your point and ignore the parts that don't. Your SUV is more likely to tip over and kill the people inside, dummy.

Also, which SUV are you buying. In a multi-car collision, you are more likely to die if you are in the smaller vehicle. As someone upthread noted, the majority of car sales in the US are now SUVs. So are you going out and buying the largest possible SUV? If not, then your family is less safe -- your crossover isn't going to cut it when it gets hit by something larger. PLUS it's more likely to kill pedestrians. PLUS its more likely to get into an accident all by itself.

All by itself, huh. OK, now I know you're off your rocker. As I have stated numerous time, my priority is my family. My SUV still stands a much better chance than your Prius in ANY collision. You drive whatever the hell you want, teach your children to cross the street properly and don't worry about what the rest of us are doing. I promise you, it will make your life a whole lot happier.

Wow victim blaming at its finest. Yep. its the kids crossing the streets fault. God you are despicable.

Yeah, no child has EVER run into the street chasing after a ball. All drives (all SUV drivers) are just murderous animals. Yeah, I'm the despicable one.

Are you ok? Like you don't sounds mentally all there.

Yes, children sometimes run into the street. They lack the practical experience or cognitive ability to know better. This is just how it is, there is no way to change this. Many kids are killed by vehicles because they get three steps ahead of their parents, or they suddenly pull their hand away and dash off because they are distracted or enticed by something. If you have had a young child, you know that you cannot perfectly control every movement they make.

One solution to this is to just not let children go places that there are cars. This is what a lot of people have started to do. Kids don't play in front yards. They definitely don't play in the streets. They don't play in parks unless the parks are gated off. And so on. One solution is to just cage up the kids so that they can never accidentally run into the street, which is something kids will do sometimes because they are kids.

Another solution would be to change the way our lives are set up so that kids can be safer without having to be caged up. That means: lowering speed limits, eliminating traffic on more roads, widening sidewalks. It also means reducing the number of vehicles on the road that pose the gravest threat to children -- SUVs.

The difference between you and me is that you think you can drive your SUV and expect small children to just adjust their behavior to accommodate it, whereas I think you, the adult, should adjust your behavior and choices to accommodate the inevitable behavior of small children so that they can be protected.

So teaching your child basic road safety is somehow catering to my SUV loving lifestyle? Got it. You are INSANE! Whether you live here or in Europe children need to learn how to be safe outside/when crossing the street. YES THEY NEED TO KNOW that cars are going to be on the street and can kill them. In Europe the streets are a lot narrower and children routinely don't have the parks to play in they do here. Take your meds lady.
You keep trying to

You cannot ensure all 3 year olds understand proper road safety. It is insane to expect that. We should make choices as a society that accept the idea that a small child who does not understand the consequences of running into a street.

If you are not minding your 3 year old like a hawk, you are the problem. Not other people. He/She is your responsibility. Not mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know that a Camry and RAV4 weigh the same, right?

The Rav4 sits up higher and is thus more dangerous to pedestrians. Also, to the PP who said she bought an SUV for visibility -- thing about what you are trying to make visible. SUV's make it easier to see over things, but they REDUCE visibility around your vehicle. Even with back up cameras, sitting up higher in your vehicle means that you are less able to see small objects (and small people) close to your vehicle.

It feels good to be able to see farther, but what is the actual benefit of that? Wouldn't you rather be able to better see a bike, a child, a dog, a ball rolling into the street, from a safety perspective? You are buying an SUV so you can see over things, but what about the stuff your SUV keeps you from seeing?

I have a 360 camera and crazy sensitive sensors. I’m LESS likely to hit something than my old sedan with poor visibility and no cameras/sensors.

But if you had a sedan with cameras and sensors...

You still sit much lower in a sedan. Go test drive one and stop spouting off your ignorance.

I'm a NP, but did you read any of this thread-sure in your new SUV you feel safer, but if you had replaced your old sedan with a new sedan the road would be safer for everyone. So if you only care about yourself own it but don't call others who have better values ignorant. Ignorant.

Well I think my values are better since I'm in the business of protecting my family in case of collision. You ARE ignorant if you can't see that some people differing values that are not inferior to your pie in the sky ones.

Are you not in the business of protecting your family when they are on sidewalks, crossing streets, playing in the yard or in a friends yard, etc.? Because I am in that business and that is why I hate SUVs.

Fun fact: if a driver loses control of their vehicle and runs into your family sitting on the outdoor patio of a coffee shop, you and your children are more likely to die if the vehicle is an SUV than if it is a sedan.

So when I rail against SUVs, I'm actually trying to protect you and your family, even though you don't give a flying f--k about me and mine. Have a good one! I hope you don't have to spend any time outside your SUV!

Well, I can get hit by a meteor just walking down the street too. I'll still take my chances since most collisions don't occur by drivers plowing people sitting in a coffee shop (statistics). Since I'm statistically more likely to be involved in a collision while in my vehicle, I feel pretty good about my choice. Your concern is touching albeit misguided.

Statistics, huh? According to the IIHS, it's true that a greater proportion of passenger and driver deaths in multi-vehicle collisions were riding in cars. However, SUVs and pickups are more likely to get into single-vehicle crashes, and therefore account for more driver and passenger deaths in single-vehicle crashes.

Pedestrians deaths from vehicle account for about 17% of all vehicular deaths. That's about 1 in 6. So a little more likely than a meteor hitting you as you walk down the street.

You think you SUV is safer for you, but that's arguable and based more on your beliefs than on facts. It's definitely more dangerous for other people -- that's just fact.

So 17% of deaths are pedestrians but I should still care more about that than a collision with another car? Bless your heart.

Do you always just read the parts that support your point and ignore the parts that don't. Your SUV is more likely to tip over and kill the people inside, dummy.

Also, which SUV are you buying. In a multi-car collision, you are more likely to die if you are in the smaller vehicle. As someone upthread noted, the majority of car sales in the US are now SUVs. So are you going out and buying the largest possible SUV? If not, then your family is less safe -- your crossover isn't going to cut it when it gets hit by something larger. PLUS it's more likely to kill pedestrians. PLUS its more likely to get into an accident all by itself.

All by itself, huh. OK, now I know you're off your rocker. As I have stated numerous time, my priority is my family. My SUV still stands a much better chance than your Prius in ANY collision. You drive whatever the hell you want, teach your children to cross the street properly and don't worry about what the rest of us are doing. I promise you, it will make your life a whole lot happier.

Wow victim blaming at its finest. Yep. its the kids crossing the streets fault. God you are despicable.

Yeah, no child has EVER run into the street chasing after a ball. All drives (all SUV drivers) are just murderous animals. Yeah, I'm the despicable one.

Are you ok? Like you don't sounds mentally all there.

Yes, children sometimes run into the street. They lack the practical experience or cognitive ability to know better. This is just how it is, there is no way to change this. Many kids are killed by vehicles because they get three steps ahead of their parents, or they suddenly pull their hand away and dash off because they are distracted or enticed by something. If you have had a young child, you know that you cannot perfectly control every movement they make.

One solution to this is to just not let children go places that there are cars. This is what a lot of people have started to do. Kids don't play in front yards. They definitely don't play in the streets. They don't play in parks unless the parks are gated off. And so on. One solution is to just cage up the kids so that they can never accidentally run into the street, which is something kids will do sometimes because they are kids.

Another solution would be to change the way our lives are set up so that kids can be safer without having to be caged up. That means: lowering speed limits, eliminating traffic on more roads, widening sidewalks. It also means reducing the number of vehicles on the road that pose the gravest threat to children -- SUVs.

The difference between you and me is that you think you can drive your SUV and expect small children to just adjust their behavior to accommodate it, whereas I think you, the adult, should adjust your behavior and choices to accommodate the inevitable behavior of small children so that they can be protected.

So teaching your child basic road safety is somehow catering to my SUV loving lifestyle? Got it. You are INSANE! Whether you live here or in Europe children need to learn how to be safe outside/when crossing the street. YES THEY NEED TO KNOW that cars are going to be on the street and can kill them. In Europe the streets are a lot narrower and children routinely don't have the parks to play in they do here. Take your meds lady.
You keep trying to

You cannot ensure all 3 year olds understand proper road safety. It is insane to expect that. We should make choices as a society that accept the idea that a small child who does not understand the consequences of running into a street.

If you are not minding your 3 year old like a hawk, you are the problem. Not other people. He/She is your responsibility. Not mine.

+1

Mind your kids.

A 3 year old will even be squashed by a Prius.

[Anonymous]

The size of the car is far less important than the miles. If you are driving 30K miles a year it's very different from someone like me who does maybe 3-4 max.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A minivan is also a large vehicle. OP, are you equally worried about those? Genuinely curious.

Thanks to WFH, I drive very rarely. I think the best things we can do to prevent car accidents are (1) promote WFH and (2) promote safe walkable communities with footpaths (preferably separate from the road, protected by something more than a curb) which (3) necessarily means mixed use development, with stores near housing and housing near stores, as well as more of the right of way given over to paths and plantings.

But FYI, your "big SUVs kill people" argument does not make me want to drive a smaller car unless everyone else is doing it, so talk to your legislators about that. You are not going to solve a collective action problem by yelling at individuals online.

Minivans tend to be safer than SUVs due to visibility. Also, in my experience, people buy minivans because they need them (they aren't considered cool cars, people buy them because they need the seating, or in some cases for accessilbity reasons since minivans can be the best option for people with mobility issues due to the low entry and the fact that seats can be easily removed).
Whereas people buy SUVs for other reasons that I don't consider to be as valid -- often simply because they are trendy or convey status, but also because they like sitting up higher than others. The arguments that SUVs are safer are very unconvincing to me, as I've explained. In any case, SUVs are way more prevalent than minivans, so it doesn't seem people need to be deterred from needlessly buying a minivan. Whereas people by SUVs all the time just because.

I share your dream of more walkable, safer communities with more mixed used development, as well as policies that reduce the need for people to drive, especially to commute long distances. However, I tend to view all of this (the proliferation of SUVs, and the development of car-centric communities and proliferation of long commutes) as part of the same cultural attitudes. I don't think legislators are going to be able to change much until we convince people that caring about one another, and community, is more important than just feeling really comfy in your big vehicle during your 30 minute drive to work. I think we need to shift the window.

And the way I deal with the fact that big SUVs kill more people is by driving as little as possible, instead of buying a big SUV. It costs less and is always the safer choice. I think more people should try it.

I'd like to gently suggest that your thread is not helping with the bolded. You are judging other people's reasons, which is rarely a good start, and then being very self righteous about why your "dream solution" is more valid than others. That's not caring community, even if it makes you feel good.

[Anonymous]

What vehicle can hold 3 large dogs in crates, 2 kids, and 2 adults besides an suv or minivan? I would love a smaller car but it just doesn’t work. Are vans as horrible to you as suvs?

[Anonymous]

Op, I will drive what I want and you drive what you want, see how that works? Go worry about something else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What vehicle can hold 3 large dogs in crates, 2 kids, and 2 adults besides an suv or minivan? I would love a smaller car but it just doesn’t work. Are vans as horrible to you as suvs?

I would love a smaller car, but I've made a bunch of choices that necessitate a giant car. What can be done?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What vehicle can hold 3 large dogs in crates, 2 kids, and 2 adults besides an suv or minivan? I would love a smaller car but it just doesn’t work. Are vans as horrible to you as suvs?

What other vehicle can accommodate 14 bags of groceries, a parakeet, two children, a guy we're giving a ride to the airport, and a coffin? I don't have a choice!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What vehicle can hold 3 large dogs in crates, 2 kids, and 2 adults besides an suv or minivan? I would love a smaller car but it just doesn’t work. Are vans as horrible to you as suvs?

Station wagon?

[Anonymous]

How about improving public transportation options?

[Anonymous]

Op this isn’t as helpful as you think it is. It’s much better to invest in sidewalks, bike lanes, and walk ability than to bicker over 15 vs 25 mpg. Also hybrid suvs and vans are much more efficient than say your average Subaru wagon or Bentley sedan with a heavier frame and engine. The category is much less relevant to the mpg’s. Even so it takes a Prius 20 years to

[Anonymous]

No. Keep buying SUVs and drive the vehicle you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What vehicle can hold 3 large dogs in crates, 2 kids, and 2 adults besides an suv or minivan? I would love a smaller car but it just doesn’t work. Are vans as horrible to you as suvs?

Station wagon?

The grocery getters of yonder may have accomplished the task but then they would be no better environmentally than SUVs. There is no modern station wagon that will fit 3 large dog crates + 4 people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What vehicle can hold 3 large dogs in crates, 2 kids, and 2 adults besides an suv or minivan? I would love a smaller car but it just doesn’t work. Are vans as horrible to you as suvs?

I would love a smaller car, but I've made a bunch of choices that necessitate a giant car. What can be done?!

Oops sorry, let me go back 10 years in time and not have my kids. And BRB, putting down my dogs.

You don’t actually care about people’s vehicles, you want everyone to live a life with 1 kid and no pets. Sorry, not reality.