If your DC's secondary school appears to have a pipeline to a specific Top 10 college...

[Anonymous]

This is one reason that from our NYC private, top kids don't apply to Chicago because everyone knows it is for a average kid who cannot get into ivies. So in a sense, they pay a price of not getting the best kids. Maybe they are getting the best kids from public schools. If they are a really top school they should not hide behind two ED rounds and compete more fairly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I’d encourage my kid to apply to their dream school, and apply RD to the pipeline school since lresumably there is still some advantage there if HYPS does not work out.

College counselor was candid in saying this college cares a great deal about yield and all bets are off if applying RD.

That’s Chicago for sure, they’re known to care the most about yield and take the overwhelming majority of its class from ED rounds. EA and RD are essentially a joke for them

Can you blame them? Otherwise they’d have to compete with HYPSM, Caltech, Duke, UPenn, etc. for a lot of students. Their strategy saves them a lot of hassle.

Yes I can blame them, it’s a scummy strategy that hurts themselves more than anyone else. They’re supposed to compete for the best students, even if it means losing a lot of students. I mean look at Caltech, Duke, and Columbia. All top tier schools with slightly lower yield rates because they’ll admit the actual top students who are applying, even if they know several of them won’t enroll because they’ll have an offer from HPSM. So they end up losing a lot of students to HPSM in particular, but they don’t care because it’s better to have 2 out of those 10 tippy-top students (gold medalists, national champions, math prodigies, etc.) actually choose to enroll at your school than to not give them the chance to make a decision at all. Because of this, schools like Caltech, Duke, and Columbia have superstars in their student body who will set the tone for their class because they weren’t afraid to accept them and see them walk elsewhere.

This is an interesting narrative, but how could you possibly know this?

But come on. Does it hurt Chicago that they took Kid A: generic 1550/3.9 kid than Kid B: 1600/4.0/national champion?

Does kid B REALLY end up being a better college student, more successful adult and all-around lifetime ambassador for the University of Chicago than kid A?
So having your sh$%t together 10% more as a 13-17 year old has lifetime implications? Clearly Chicago has found that it does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is one reason that from our NYC private, top kids don't apply to Chicago because everyone knows it is for a average kid who cannot get into ivies. So in a sense, they pay a price of not getting the best kids. Maybe they are getting the best kids from public schools. If they are a really top school they should not hide behind two ED rounds and compete more fairly.

Penn M&T poster here. In general, non-HYP Ivies can’t compete with HYPSM either, which is why they offer ED and special programs. I’m fairly certain I could have gotten into Harvard had I applied back in my day, but Penn M&T ED was too tempting to ignore (which is exactly Penn’s intention in offering it). I have no bias towards or against Chicago specifically, but I disagree with your conclusion that it’s for “average kids who cannot get into [I]vies.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every school with ED is playing this same game; UChicago just takes it to the next level. For example, I applied and was accepted to Penn M&T ED and therefore didn’t try for Harvard.

The problem is Chicago takes it to an unprecedented level. Penn accepts ~50% of their class through ED. UChicago accepts ~75% of their class through ED, which is entirely different.

It seems many colleges are moving towards taking more and more of the class ED. Maybe Chicago is simply ahead of the curve? Again, I have no dog in this fight - I just don’t understand the vitriol directed specifically at Chicago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one reason that from our NYC private, top kids don't apply to Chicago because everyone knows it is for a average kid who cannot get into ivies. So in a sense, they pay a price of not getting the best kids. Maybe they are getting the best kids from public schools. If they are a really top school they should not hide behind two ED rounds and compete more fairly.

Penn M&T poster here. In general, non-HYP Ivies can’t compete with HYPSM either, which is why they offer ED and special programs. I’m fairly certain I could have gotten into Harvard had I applied back in my day, but Penn M&T ED was too tempting to ignore (which is exactly Penn’s intention in offering it). I have no bias towards or against Chicago specifically, but I disagree with your conclusion that it’s for “average kids who cannot get into [I]vies.”

At the private my kid attends, it is purely for those kids. The reason it is clear is many kids use Chicago as an option for ED2. They ED1 an ivy. You applied ED1 and it makes sense that you could have gotten into Harvard because M&T is very selective.

[Anonymous]

OP here. This thread has certainly become hyper-University of Chicago focused! Would I be throwing a massive kink in things by clarifying that the pipeline school in question is NOT UofC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d encourage my kid to apply to their dream school, and apply RD to the pipeline school since lresumably there is still some advantage there if HYPS does not work out.

College counselor was candid in saying this college cares a great deal about yield and all bets are off if applying RD.

That’s Chicago for sure, they’re known to care the most about yield and take the overwhelming majority of its class from ED rounds. EA and RD are essentially a joke for them

Can you blame them? Otherwise they’d have to compete with HYPSM, Caltech, Duke, UPenn, etc. for a lot of students. Their strategy saves them a lot of hassle.

Yes I can blame them, it’s a scummy strategy that hurts themselves more than anyone else. They’re supposed to compete for the best students, even if it means losing a lot of students. I mean look at Caltech, Duke, and Columbia. All top tier schools with slightly lower yield rates because they’ll admit the actual top students who are applying, even if they know several of them won’t enroll because they’ll have an offer from HPSM. So they end up losing a lot of students to HPSM in particular, but they don’t care because it’s better to have 2 out of those 10 tippy-top students (gold medalists, national champions, math prodigies, etc.) actually choose to enroll at your school than to not give them the chance to make a decision at all. Because of this, schools like Caltech, Duke, and Columbia have superstars in their student body who will set the tone for their class because they weren’t afraid to accept them and see them walk elsewhere.

This is an interesting narrative, but how could you possibly know this?

But come on. Does it hurt Chicago that they took Kid A: generic 1550/3.9 kid than Kid B: 1600/4.0/national champion?

Does kid B REALLY end up being a better college student, more successful adult and all-around lifetime ambassador for the University of Chicago than kid A?
So having your sh$%t together 10% more as a 13-17 year old has lifetime implications? Clearly Chicago has found that it does not.

NP So you think. say a nationally prestigious math award is %10 more? I certainly don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d encourage my kid to apply to their dream school, and apply RD to the pipeline school since lresumably there is still some advantage there if HYPS does not work out.

College counselor was candid in saying this college cares a great deal about yield and all bets are off if applying RD.

That’s Chicago for sure, they’re known to care the most about yield and take the overwhelming majority of its class from ED rounds. EA and RD are essentially a joke for them

Can you blame them? Otherwise they’d have to compete with HYPSM, Caltech, Duke, UPenn, etc. for a lot of students. Their strategy saves them a lot of hassle.

Yes I can blame them, it’s a scummy strategy that hurts themselves more than anyone else. They’re supposed to compete for the best students, even if it means losing a lot of students. I mean look at Caltech, Duke, and Columbia. All top tier schools with slightly lower yield rates because they’ll admit the actual top students who are applying, even if they know several of them won’t enroll because they’ll have an offer from HPSM. So they end up losing a lot of students to HPSM in particular, but they don’t care because it’s better to have 2 out of those 10 tippy-top students (gold medalists, national champions, math prodigies, etc.) actually choose to enroll at your school than to not give them the chance to make a decision at all. Because of this, schools like Caltech, Duke, and Columbia have superstars in their student body who will set the tone for their class because they weren’t afraid to accept them and see them walk elsewhere.

This is an interesting narrative, but how could you possibly know this?

But come on. Does it hurt Chicago that they took Kid A: generic 1550/3.9 kid than Kid B: 1600/4.0/national champion?

Does kid B REALLY end up being a better college student, more successful adult and all-around lifetime ambassador for the University of Chicago than kid A?
So having your sh$%t together 10% more as a 13-17 year old has lifetime implications? Clearly Chicago has found that it does not.

NP So you think. say a nationally prestigious math award is %10 more? I certainly don't.

Do you think it's worth less or more?

I would say less. I think once you get past the "1500/3.9 +/- this or that extracurricular level of student" (actually probably a far lower cut-off than this) it's probably a total crap shoot as to how successful a kid becomes in life.
Chicago knows this. They know that Kid X who won this or that high school math award or had parents who helicoptered them into starting a non-profit is no more likely to be successful in life than those
who did not do these things. So no need to fight over these kids.

[Anonymous]

There is a poster here whom I would bet ED’d or SCEA’d an Ivy , kid did not get in, and is resentful of kids who got into Chicago ED so feels a need to trash the school. Chicago is an amazing top school. Kids are self selecting there who like academics and free speech. By the way you can’t ED1 an Ivy and then count on Chicago as a backup school; the admissions director was very clear that they want kids who want to be at Chicago, not kids who are only there because Harvard dinged them. That’s why ED1 is so important.

[Anonymous]

So to answer the original question- no point in gaming the odds if you think your kid wants a less rigorous experience or more prestige than a T10 Chicago admit. The Ivies are what is sounds like you want plus they will probably be easier academically and more fun socially, so ED or SCEA an Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a poster here whom I would bet ED’d or SCEA’d an Ivy , kid did not get in, and is resentful of kids who got into Chicago ED so feels a need to trash the school. Chicago is an amazing top school. Kids are self selecting there who like academics and free speech. By the way you can’t ED1 an Ivy and then count on Chicago as a backup school; the admissions director was very clear that they want kids who want to be at Chicago, not kids who are only there because Harvard dinged them. That’s why ED1 is so important.

If Chicago did not want Harvard or other Ivy rejects then they would not have had ED2 - they have ED2 because they want those kids. So yes, it is a backup of sorts for kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This thread has certainly become hyper-University of Chicago focused! Would I be throwing a massive kink in things by clarifying that the pipeline school in question is NOT UofC?

You're being cute here. Why not just name the school ? There are many mature posters on this site who have experience with your situation.

If not U Chicago, then it could be U Penn which gives huge boosts to Philly students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This thread has certainly become hyper-University of Chicago focused! Would I be throwing a massive kink in things by clarifying that the pipeline school in question is NOT UofC?

You're being cute here. Why not just name the school ? There are many mature posters on this site who have experience with your situation.

If not U Chicago, then it could be U Penn which gives huge boosts to Philly students.

Duly admonished. You're right, it's Penn. So no ED2 option, which is what makes this decision difficult for DC. HYPS coin toss given stats and legacy or Penn near sure thing given pipeline but only in ED?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So to answer the original question- no point in gaming the odds if you think your kid wants a less rigorous experience or more prestige than a T10 Chicago admit. The Ivies are what is sounds like you want plus they will probably be easier academically and more fun socially, so ED or SCEA an Ivy.

Not sure about the other Ivies, but Princeton is very, very rigorous.

[Anonymous]

So rigorous you can be a classics major without latin.