10 yo DS too shy to be polite

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP with a child suffering from SM. I forgot to say, phrases like thank you, please, hello, etc are the most difficult for kids with social anxiety because there is an expectation to say them.

Posters above who are attacking this kid’s manners and mom’s parenting: you are really lucky to have NT kids who can do these things with ease, but you haven’t walked in other peoples’ shoes

What is SM? It's odd, because he's quite talkative in most situations. But if you're a server who asks what he wants to drink at a restaurant, you'd think you'd just asked him to do quantum physics. "Sprite, please," just won't come out. I've asked what the worst case scenario here is, and he doesn't want to talk about it. Flips out, actually.

SM is selective mutism. It refers to the fear of speaking in selective, not all, social situations. My child was also super chatty in certain places around certain people, but in other public situations, she was mute. It was CBT that helped her but also practicing the skills she learned in therapy out in public. The key was lowering expectations of speaking which lowered anxiety and then breaking down the desired behavior into small steps and then practicing them in increasingly difficult steps. I found this book super helpful: The Selective Mutism Resource Manual: 2nd Edition (A Speechmark Practical Sourcebook) https://a.co/d/ePTgzrs

Thanks! Will check it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, try posting this in the special needs forum. You’ll find less snark there

He doesn't have SN.

And you’re the expert, Ms. Coddler-Spoiling-Your-Kid-Crap-Parent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, try posting this in the special needs forum. You’ll find less snark there

He doesn't have SN.

And you’re the expert, Ms. Coddler-Spoiling-Your-Kid-Crap-Parent?

At least OP's kids won't end up stunted.

[Anonymous]

At least your child does say please and ty. I'm a morning nanny for 10 and 7 year old kids. Never say please/thank you/good morning back unless prompted. Literally, I'll arrive in the morning, give a cheery good morning and often the first words out of the 10 year oldest mouth will be "I want blank for breakfast." I've been doing before school morning care for 15+ years with this being my fourth family and I'm beyond frustrated with the lack of basic respect and courtesy. It is what it is though. I declined a second year with the family so just a few more months to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At least your child does say please and ty. I'm a morning nanny for 10 and 7 year old kids. Never say please/thank you/good morning back unless prompted. Literally, I'll arrive in the morning, give a cheery good morning and often the first words out of the 10 year oldest mouth will be "I want blank for breakfast." I've been doing before school morning care for 15+ years with this being my fourth family and I'm beyond frustrated with the lack of basic respect and courtesy. It is what it is though. I declined a second year with the family so just a few more months to go.

Ouch. I would have declined, too.

[Anonymous]

It's interesting, when I was a kid, I had this issue, too. I remember being literally afraid that saying please and thank-you was a practical joke adults had cooked up to so I'd say it and get laughed it. As a result, I wouldn't say it.

I'm not sure how I got this in my head, but I guess it's anxiety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed that covid lockdowns have affected the socialization of my youngest. When she leaves an activity I will tell her to say good bye and look the person in the eyes. Right now she knows it's expected of her but still doesn't follow through most of the time.

No doubt, the extreme masking of kids, quarantine, virtual learning, etc were very damaging to children.

It is doubtful the harm we did to our own kids was worth any slight benefit (if there was any at all).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed that covid lockdowns have affected the socialization of my youngest. When she leaves an activity I will tell her to say good bye and look the person in the eyes. Right now she knows it's expected of her but still doesn't follow through most of the time.

No doubt, the extreme masking of kids, quarantine, virtual learning, etc were very damaging to children.

It is doubtful the harm we did to our own kids was worth any slight benefit (if there was any at all).

OP here. I agree with this, but again, DS wasn't subjected to most of this. He was in school in August 2020, no masks by December, we kept traveling, etc. I can imagine his struggles now if he'd done 18 months of virtual school like a lot of families we know. I just don't think it's the issue here.

[Anonymous]

Poor thing. It will come off rude but as a formerly painfully shy kid myself; I get it.

Try to work on his self-esteem/ confidence. Maybe get him into performing arts or more team extracurriculars in general.

10 yo is too old to use the shy excuse. People will start to assume that he just doesn't have any manners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught my kids around age 2 and 3 that not all kids had such good manners as them and to be very proud of themselves for their wonderful manners, and to say it "loud and proud." Why did you let him get to such an old age without working on this much earlier?

What does he think will happen if people notice he said thank you? They'll ... say you're welcome? Honestly, at his age I'd find it totally unacceptable and not allow him to accept anything unless he can say thank you. No ordering food in restaurants, no gifts, nothing. Not until he can bring himself to look people in the eye for the half second it takes to audibly say thank you. This coddling is total BS.

This is really myopic. Do you understand that some people have challenges your children may not face? I am a parent of 4, and although I typically have a hard time when people with larger families deride those with fewer children, I understand why they do -- life hasn't yet taught you that kids aren't in your completely control.

Yes, of course I do. But some things are unacceptable. Sometimes my kids have to push themselves and be uncomfortable for a couple of seconds or hours or whatever, because that's life. They learn to cope and push through things to do what needs to get done. I also have four, and when one of mine went through a shy phase they weren't allowed to accept the free cookie the bakery lady offered them since they wouldn't say thank you. And guess what? Seeing their three siblings munching away happily helped them get over themselves.

So basically, you are saying that if my kids aren't doing all the things they should be, that is because I as a parent failed?

Yes. Depending on age it's not really the kid's fault. Most children want to please their parents so if you're expectations and examples are low ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting, when I was a kid, I had this issue, too. I remember being literally afraid that saying please and thank-you was a practical joke adults had cooked up to so I'd say it and get laughed it. As a result, I wouldn't say it.

I'm not sure how I got this in my head, but I guess it's anxiety.

PP who was painfully shy as a kid.
Yes, it's definitely anxiety. I went from painfully shy kid to fairly anxious adult.
What helped me somewhat was when people would make a big deal (positive) about me saying "hi", "thank you", etc.
It felt good so I was more likely to say it and loud enough that they heard but ... When people wouldn't say it back, ugh.

Being a kid is hard.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read all these replies, but I'm hoping someone has already mentioned anxiety as an issue. Once you have it named (not shyness, but anxiety), you can work as a family and/or with a therapist to better mange it. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like it is in the realm of selective mutism, which is driven by anxiety. I would start by practicing with him as others have suggested, but if that doesn't improve the situation, it may be time to reach out to a therapist. If this type of shutting down affects his performance in school, you may also want to consider anti-anxiety meds.

In the meantime, keep modeling the behavior when you are with him. After he quietly says thank you, you can make eye contact with the person and thank them clearly. You shouldn't explain why your son's thank you was inaudible or put him on the spot; just thank the person and move on. And lots of praise in private for when your son is at all successful with this.

Agree with the first part and the modeling. Also I think you should definitly talk to a therapist. It may not actually be SM because in SM the child doesn't stop talking in different settings (I saw you prreviously described that he started talking less/stopping in some settings around 18 months ago)-but a therapist can help figure out if something else is going on.

However, assuming it is SM, I strongly disagree with the "After he quietly says thank you, you can make eye contact with the person and thank them clearly." Part of SM work includes not speaking for your child. If anything, you should try 'labeled praise.' However, your child might be getting oto old for explicit labled praise in that setting.

--parent of a child who had SM for many years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like it is in the realm of selective mutism, which is driven by anxiety. I would start by practicing with him as others have suggested, but if that doesn't improve the situation, it may be time to reach out to a therapist. If this type of shutting down affects his performance in school, you may also want to consider anti-anxiety meds.

In the meantime, keep modeling the behavior when you are with him. After he quietly says thank you, you can make eye contact with the person and thank them clearly. You shouldn't explain why your son's thank you was inaudible or put him on the spot; just thank the person and move on. And lots of praise in private for when your son is at all successful with this.

Agree with the first part and the modeling. Also I think you should definitly talk to a therapist. It may not actually be SM because in SM the child doesn't stop talking in different settings (I saw you prreviously described that he started talking less/stopping in some settings around 18 months ago)-but a therapist can help figure out if something else is going on.

However, assuming it is SM, I strongly disagree with the "After he quietly says thank you, you can make eye contact with the person and thank them clearly." Part of SM work includes not speaking for your child. If anything, you should try 'labeled praise.' However, your child might be getting oto old for explicit labled praise in that setting.

--parent of a child who had SM for many years

Yes, praise makes him really self-conscious - I think he's aware he's messing up, and he's really embarrassed about it. I've been thanking afterward, though, and I should probably stop that. Thanks for the reminder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all these replies, but I'm hoping someone has already mentioned anxiety as an issue. Once you have it named (not shyness, but anxiety), you can work as a family and/or with a therapist to better mange it. Good luck.

Yes, you're right. Reframing this as anxiety gives me some ideas!