Advanced middle school math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The race to nowhere

It is not a race, it is trying to engage your child at a level that challenges them. Do you feel the same about travel sports? DS loves math and is good at it. The math taught at his school is not challenging for him. He needs more then what the school can provide. I can let him be bored and lose interest in math because the work isn't challenging or I can find ways to engge his interest.

Work on breath: music, chess, strategy games, art, science, another language. Many of these kids also struggle with social situations, so find a way to encourage social and team skills. He can do advanced math too, but it's not the end all be all.

Generally, these kids already are. Do you really think that there are tons of parents out there pushing their kids only in math and not having them participate in any other activities? My kid does supplemental math. He also does a sport, plays an instrument, is learning a language, enjoys strategy games and so on. This is typical for many math high achievers.

There's a kid up thread who does math, rec sports and scouts. Adding an instrument or language would push his brain to add another skill. It's not a crazy suggestion.

The kid already sounds well rounded enough. Just how many activities does a kid need to be in for you to deem them sufficiently well rounded for supplemental math? Why is it better to force a kid who is interested in math into "math adjacent" activities rather than letting the kid do more math?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The race to nowhere

It is not a race, it is trying to engage your child at a level that challenges them. Do you feel the same about travel sports? DS loves math and is good at it. The math taught at his school is not challenging for him. He needs more then what the school can provide. I can let him be bored and lose interest in math because the work isn't challenging or I can find ways to engge his interest.

Work on breath: music, chess, strategy games, art, science, another language. Many of these kids also struggle with social situations, so find a way to encourage social and team skills. He can do advanced math too, but it's not the end all be all.

Generally, these kids already are. Do you really think that there are tons of parents out there pushing their kids only in math and not having them participate in any other activities? My kid does supplemental math. He also does a sport, plays an instrument, is learning a language, enjoys strategy games and so on. This is typical for many math high achievers.

There's a kid up thread who does math, rec sports and scouts. Adding an instrument or language would push his brain to add another skill. It's not a crazy suggestion.

The kid already sounds well rounded enough. Just how many activities does a kid need to be in for you to deem them sufficiently well rounded for supplemental math? Why is it better to force a kid who is interested in math into "math adjacent" activities rather than letting the kid do more math?

Because specializing at age 10 isn't appropriate. Being good at math is extremely one dimensional. For a kid who is as gifted as stated here (i.e., in the 0.01%) then they should be doing other things to find an intellectual challenge. If not, they will be bored. Sports and scouts are great, but just don't have that level of intellectual challege.

The smartest guy I ever knew studied math at Harvard, followed by a PhD at Stanford. In addition to publishing papers in math journals with an MIT professor as a high schooler, he also won several national poetry contests and was fluent in a couple of self taught languages. By contrast, nearly every guy in my engineering program was good at math and liked sports. Nice guys, but far from exceptional. If you just want to be one of those guys, there's zero reason to take Algebra in 4th-6th grade. If you're so damn smart that you're exceptional, then you should expand your horizons or you will be bored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The race to nowhere

It is not a race, it is trying to engage your child at a level that challenges them. Do you feel the same about travel sports? DS loves math and is good at it. The math taught at his school is not challenging for him. He needs more then what the school can provide. I can let him be bored and lose interest in math because the work isn't challenging or I can find ways to engge his interest.

Work on breath: music, chess, strategy games, art, science, another language. Many of these kids also struggle with social situations, so find a way to encourage social and team skills. He can do advanced math too, but it's not the end all be all.

Generally, these kids already are. Do you really think that there are tons of parents out there pushing their kids only in math and not having them participate in any other activities? My kid does supplemental math. He also does a sport, plays an instrument, is learning a language, enjoys strategy games and so on. This is typical for many math high achievers.

There's a kid up thread who does math, rec sports and scouts. Adding an instrument or language would push his brain to add another skill. It's not a crazy suggestion.

The kid already sounds well rounded enough. Just how many activities does a kid need to be in for you to deem them sufficiently well rounded for supplemental math? Why is it better to force a kid who is interested in math into "math adjacent" activities rather than letting the kid do more math?

Because specializing at age 10 isn't appropriate. Being good at math is extremely one dimensional. For a kid who is as gifted as stated here (i.e., in the 0.01%) then they should be doing other things to find an intellectual challenge. If not, they will be bored. Sports and scouts are great, but just don't have that level of intellectual challege.

The smartest guy I ever knew studied math at Harvard, followed by a PhD at Stanford. In addition to publishing papers in math journals with an MIT professor as a high schooler, he also won several national poetry contests and was fluent in a couple of self taught languages. By contrast, nearly every guy in my engineering program was good at math and liked sports. Nice guys, but far from exceptional. If you just want to be one of those guys, there's zero reason to take Algebra in 4th-6th grade. If you're so damn smart that you're exceptional, then you should expand your horizons or you will be bored.

Doing 4 hours per week of supplemental math is hardly specializing. It would just be a hobby, and it's completely age appropriate for a 10 year old.

You're also getting posters confused. Mine is the 99.99th percentile type kid who also is doing music, language instruction, etc. My kid probably spends more time per week practicing his instrument than he does with math, but I bet you aren't bothered that he's too young to specialize in music. If he did the high level orchestra that would require a time commitment of 10-15 hours per week, I bet you wouldn't bat an eyelash at that even though you seem to be clutching your pearls about a few hours of math enrichment.

There is no reason to assume that PP's kid isn't sufficiently well rounded. It's also not intrinsically superior to force a math oriented kid to do an instrument or play chess rather than do math enrichment, especially if the kid is more interested in math than the other stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The race to nowhere

It is not a race, it is trying to engage your child at a level that challenges them. Do you feel the same about travel sports? DS loves math and is good at it. The math taught at his school is not challenging for him. He needs more then what the school can provide. I can let him be bored and lose interest in math because the work isn't challenging or I can find ways to engge his interest.

Work on breath: music, chess, strategy games, art, science, another language. Many of these kids also struggle with social situations, so find a way to encourage social and team skills. He can do advanced math too, but it's not the end all be all.

Generally, these kids already are. Do you really think that there are tons of parents out there pushing their kids only in math and not having them participate in any other activities? My kid does supplemental math. He also does a sport, plays an instrument, is learning a language, enjoys strategy games and so on. This is typical for many math high achievers.

There's a kid up thread who does math, rec sports and scouts. Adding an instrument or language would push his brain to add another skill. It's not a crazy suggestion.

The kid already sounds well rounded enough. Just how many activities does a kid need to be in for you to deem them sufficiently well rounded for supplemental math? Why is it better to force a kid who is interested in math into "math adjacent" activities rather than letting the kid do more math?

Because specializing at age 10 isn't appropriate. Being good at math is extremely one dimensional. For a kid who is as gifted as stated here (i.e., in the 0.01%) then they should be doing other things to find an intellectual challenge. If not, they will be bored. Sports and scouts are great, but just don't have that level of intellectual challege.

The smartest guy I ever knew studied math at Harvard, followed by a PhD at Stanford. In addition to publishing papers in math journals with an MIT professor as a high schooler, he also won several national poetry contests and was fluent in a couple of self taught languages. By contrast, nearly every guy in my engineering program was good at math and liked sports. Nice guys, but far from exceptional. If you just want to be one of those guys, there's zero reason to take Algebra in 4th-6th grade. If you're so damn smart that you're exceptional, then you should expand your horizons or you will be bored.

Doing 4 hours per week of supplemental math is hardly specializing. It would just be a hobby, and it's completely age appropriate for a 10 year old.

You're also getting posters confused. Mine is the 99.99th percentile type kid who also is doing music, language instruction, etc. My kid probably spends more time per week practicing his instrument than he does with math, but I bet you aren't bothered that he's too young to specialize in music. If he did the high level orchestra that would require a time commitment of 10-15 hours per week, I bet you wouldn't bat an eyelash at that even though you seem to be clutching your pearls about a few hours of math enrichment.

There is no reason to assume that PP's kid isn't sufficiently well rounded. It's also not intrinsically superior to force a math oriented kid to do an instrument or play chess rather than do math enrichment, especially if the kid is more interested in math than the other stuff.

This thread isn't about doing supplemental math but having the school accelerate the student to an extraordinary extent because they are bored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The race to nowhere

It is not a race, it is trying to engage your child at a level that challenges them. Do you feel the same about travel sports? DS loves math and is good at it. The math taught at his school is not challenging for him. He needs more then what the school can provide. I can let him be bored and lose interest in math because the work isn't challenging or I can find ways to engge his interest.

Work on breath: music, chess, strategy games, art, science, another language. Many of these kids also struggle with social situations, so find a way to encourage social and team skills. He can do advanced math too, but it's not the end all be all.

Generally, these kids already are. Do you really think that there are tons of parents out there pushing their kids only in math and not having them participate in any other activities? My kid does supplemental math. He also does a sport, plays an instrument, is learning a language, enjoys strategy games and so on. This is typical for many math high achievers.

There's a kid up thread who does math, rec sports and scouts. Adding an instrument or language would push his brain to add another skill. It's not a crazy suggestion.

The kid already sounds well rounded enough. Just how many activities does a kid need to be in for you to deem them sufficiently well rounded for supplemental math? Why is it better to force a kid who is interested in math into "math adjacent" activities rather than letting the kid do more math?

Because specializing at age 10 isn't appropriate. Being good at math is extremely one dimensional. For a kid who is as gifted as stated here (i.e., in the 0.01%) then they should be doing other things to find an intellectual challenge. If not, they will be bored. Sports and scouts are great, but just don't have that level of intellectual challege.

The smartest guy I ever knew studied math at Harvard, followed by a PhD at Stanford. In addition to publishing papers in math journals with an MIT professor as a high schooler, he also won several national poetry contests and was fluent in a couple of self taught languages. By contrast, nearly every guy in my engineering program was good at math and liked sports. Nice guys, but far from exceptional. If you just want to be one of those guys, there's zero reason to take Algebra in 4th-6th grade. If you're so damn smart that you're exceptional, then you should expand your horizons or you will be bored.

Doing 4 hours per week of supplemental math is hardly specializing. It would just be a hobby, and it's completely age appropriate for a 10 year old.

You're also getting posters confused. Mine is the 99.99th percentile type kid who also is doing music, language instruction, etc. My kid probably spends more time per week practicing his instrument than he does with math, but I bet you aren't bothered that he's too young to specialize in music. If he did the high level orchestra that would require a time commitment of 10-15 hours per week, I bet you wouldn't bat an eyelash at that even though you seem to be clutching your pearls about a few hours of math enrichment.

There is no reason to assume that PP's kid isn't sufficiently well rounded. It's also not intrinsically superior to force a math oriented kid to do an instrument or play chess rather than do math enrichment, especially if the kid is more interested in math than the other stuff.

I'm not mixing posters up, you're assuming every general statement is about you and your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is in fifth grade and in Advanced Math in FCPS. He has been going to RSM for enrichment since third grade. We had a chance to listen to the math classes and realized that he was not going to be challenged in math. We asked if he wanted to take an extra class that would challenge him and he said yes. He has continue with the class since then. He also participates in a math competition class and enjoys math competitions.

We have not talked to his school about advancing him in math at school. We remind him that the work at school is important foundational work and that the extra practice is good for him because it will help him remember proper steps and procedures. He will need to be fluent and fast with these skills as he gets older so the extra practice is good for him.

He is one of the youngest kids in his grade level right now. We don't think that it is a good idea to try and advance him faster for social reasons. I don't think that he needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade so badly that he ends up in a virtual class or trying to work out going to the MS for a class in the morning and then returning to his ES. The acceleration is not worth his getting up an hour earlier to go to a different school to take a class.

Here's the long and short of it. If your child takes Algebra in 7th, some doors are being closed to him. But, they may already have been closed. If he has the natural aptitude to qualify for National Mathcounts, he would be at a huge disadvantage if he were taking Algebra in 7th or even 6th. But, only the top 4 kids in each state qualify. Unless your kid is one of those very top kids, Algebra timing is irrelevant. FWIW, my kid did participate in Mathcounts nationals, and he also took Algebra I in 4th grade. That is not at all atypical for kids at that level.

Likewise, it would be nearly impossible for a kid to progress through the USAJMO/AMO -> MOP -> IMO chain without being highly accelerated. They simply wouldn't know enough math compared to the kids who are accelerated. This would only potentially affect the top 50 or so kids in each grade level across the entire country.

If your kid isn't a complete outlier, the only benefit to taking Algebra earlier is moderately better placement in math contests at somewhat earlier ages. It won't ultimately matter that much for anything else.

Trying to understand...

OP here. So the only benefit for putting a 6th grader in algebra I would be that they could compete in math competitions? While they sound fun, that wouldn’t be our ultimate goal. I’m just trying to get the appropriate level class based on his ability. His school is 6-8th grade. The “in house” honors class for 8th grade is Algebra I, so he could potentially take it since he is in the same building. But to my knowledge, no 6th graders do this and I think the counselors will not be agreeable to it. When he is in 7-8th grade he will have access to other programs in the district (but outside of his school) that are even more accelerated, but they don’t offer those to the 6th graders.

Algebra 1 in 6th or 7th is not for excelling math competitions but likely appropriate for an advanced student. Taking it early allows for Calculus in 10th and two years of advanced math (Vector calculus/Linear algebra) if the school system offers these. Also, if the kid is interested in math for math's sake, this would free up time for math related research in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The race to nowhere

It is not a race, it is trying to engage your child at a level that challenges them. Do you feel the same about travel sports? DS loves math and is good at it. The math taught at his school is not challenging for him. He needs more then what the school can provide. I can let him be bored and lose interest in math because the work isn't challenging or I can find ways to engge his interest.

Work on breath: music, chess, strategy games, art, science, another language. Many of these kids also struggle with social situations, so find a way to encourage social and team skills. He can do advanced math too, but it's not the end all be all.

Generally, these kids already are. Do you really think that there are tons of parents out there pushing their kids only in math and not having them participate in any other activities? My kid does supplemental math. He also does a sport, plays an instrument, is learning a language, enjoys strategy games and so on. This is typical for many math high achievers.

There's a kid up thread who does math, rec sports and scouts. Adding an instrument or language would push his brain to add another skill. It's not a crazy suggestion.

The kid already sounds well rounded enough. Just how many activities does a kid need to be in for you to deem them sufficiently well rounded for supplemental math? Why is it better to force a kid who is interested in math into "math adjacent" activities rather than letting the kid do more math?

Because specializing at age 10 isn't appropriate. Being good at math is extremely one dimensional. For a kid who is as gifted as stated here (i.e., in the 0.01%) then they should be doing other things to find an intellectual challenge. If not, they will be bored. Sports and scouts are great, but just don't have that level of intellectual challege.

The smartest guy I ever knew studied math at Harvard, followed by a PhD at Stanford. In addition to publishing papers in math journals with an MIT professor as a high schooler, he also won several national poetry contests and was fluent in a couple of self taught languages. By contrast, nearly every guy in my engineering program was good at math and liked sports. Nice guys, but far from exceptional. If you just want to be one of those guys, there's zero reason to take Algebra in 4th-6th grade. If you're so damn smart that you're exceptional, then you should expand your horizons or you will be bored.

Doing 4 hours per week of supplemental math is hardly specializing. It would just be a hobby, and it's completely age appropriate for a 10 year old.

You're also getting posters confused. Mine is the 99.99th percentile type kid who also is doing music, language instruction, etc. My kid probably spends more time per week practicing his instrument than he does with math, but I bet you aren't bothered that he's too young to specialize in music. If he did the high level orchestra that would require a time commitment of 10-15 hours per week, I bet you wouldn't bat an eyelash at that even though you seem to be clutching your pearls about a few hours of math enrichment.

There is no reason to assume that PP's kid isn't sufficiently well rounded. It's also not intrinsically superior to force a math oriented kid to do an instrument or play chess rather than do math enrichment, especially if the kid is more interested in math than the other stuff.

This thread isn't about doing supplemental math but having the school accelerate the student to an extraordinary extent because they are bored.

Then why were you using the kid doing the math, rec sports, and scouting as the example of a kid who needs more breadth? That PP did not claim to have a 99.99th percentile kid, already said that she's content having her son take Algebra in 7th, and is content having her kid do supplemental enrichment rather than expecting acceleration from the school. I'm pretty sure that poster's kid is also doing language immersion. What point were you even trying to make by calling out that poster?

Even in OP's case, OP seemed amenable to having her kid explore math contests rather than pushing the school for radical acceleration.

[Anonymous]

Supplementing in math 4 hours a week and expecting the school to accommodate is ridiculous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The race to nowhere

It is not a race, it is trying to engage your child at a level that challenges them. Do you feel the same about travel sports? DS loves math and is good at it. The math taught at his school is not challenging for him. He needs more then what the school can provide. I can let him be bored and lose interest in math because the work isn't challenging or I can find ways to engge his interest.

Work on breath: music, chess, strategy games, art, science, another language. Many of these kids also struggle with social situations, so find a way to encourage social and team skills. He can do advanced math too, but it's not the end all be all.

DS is in language immersion, we love it for the challenge that it provides him. He says his language is one of his favorite classes at school. He is not going to be fluent in the language in question, that is not really how the program works, but should have a bit more exposure that should help him in MS. He takes music at school. He happens to play a fair number of board games and some role playing games. He does play team sports and he is in Scouts. Heck, we want him playing sports because it gives him something that he can do with a good number of other kids, the exercise is great, and he has fun with it.

I have no problem with the parents whose kids are ahead in a subject and whose parents move them ahead in school. I assume that those parents know their child and think that is the best decision for their kid. I don’t have problems with parents who choose to allow their kid to participate in travel sports or take music lessons or any number of activities. My only concern would be if a child was doing these things and the kid didn’t want to do it but the parents made them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Supplementing in math 4 hours a week and expecting the school to accommodate is ridiculous

We don’t expect the school to accommodate. DS is in class at his grade level and we have not asked for him to be advanced.

That said, the Public schools are not set it to handle exceptional kids (and I don’t think my kid is exceptional) on either end of the spectrum. They are not great at helping kids with learning issues and they are not great at helping kids who are gifted. There are kids whose parents are supplementing because their child is legit bored at school. The schools don’t want to advance kids more quickly even when there is a kid who needs it. Should the parents of a gifted kid just let the kid twiddle their thumbs during school and learn nothing? Then people complain when the parents supplement so that the kid is actually challenged and has a chance to grow. It is a catch 22 and the kid is the one who is harmed by it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Supplementing in math 4 hours a week and expecting the school to accommodate is ridiculous

Are travel sports with 4 practices and 2 games a week ridiculous at 10? Because there are a lot more kids doing that then who are doing any type of math supplementation. Some kids want to play sports a ton and some kids like math. Some love music or drama. What activities are allowed that kids can do more then they get at school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Supplementing in math 4 hours a week and expecting the school to accommodate is ridiculous

Are travel sports with 4 practices and 2 games a week ridiculous at 10? Because there are a lot more kids doing that then who are doing any type of math supplementation. Some kids want to play sports a ton and some kids like math. Some love music or drama. What activities are allowed that kids can do more then they get at school?

Parents need to be less helicoptering and pushing in general. If a kid wants to do things that's fine, in too many cases it's the parents pushing.

Of course, activities are allowed outside of the school, however, here is the point, you can't demand the school accommodates your kid then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Supplementing in math 4 hours a week and expecting the school to accommodate is ridiculous

We don’t expect the school to accommodate. DS is in class at his grade level and we have not asked for him to be advanced.

That said, the Public schools are not set it to handle exceptional kids (and I don’t think my kid is exceptional) on either end of the spectrum. They are not great at helping kids with learning issues and they are not great at helping kids who are gifted. There are kids whose parents are supplementing because their child is legit bored at school. The schools don’t want to advance kids more quickly even when there is a kid who needs it. Should the parents of a gifted kid just let the kid twiddle their thumbs during school and learn nothing? Then people complain when the parents supplement so that the kid is actually challenged and has a chance to grow. It is a catch 22 and the kid is the one who is harmed by it.

Here is the point and we have gone round and round on this. Very few kids are actually gifted, like less than .01%. That's maybe one per grade even in a high IQ/SES region like this one. Those kids should be on alternative tracks than traditional public school.

For everyone else, the kids are just smart. There is no need or reason to accelerate in math. Again taking Algebra in 7th gives you 2 Calculus plus courses in high school which is more than enough. It is not a good idea to skip more than one core math component in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Supplementing in math 4 hours a week and expecting the school to accommodate is ridiculous

Are travel sports with 4 practices and 2 games a week ridiculous at 10? Because there are a lot more kids doing that then who are doing any type of math supplementation. Some kids want to play sports a ton and some kids like math. Some love music or drama. What activities are allowed that kids can do more then they get at school?

If the kids is doing all those sports and then complaining of boredom, then you need to adjust. Perhaps add something more intellectual? Something creative? If it's working for the kid then carry on.

This whole post was about asking schools to accelerate kids inath to an extraordinary extent. The pushback here is that there's no point to such acceleration--its a race to no where. Instead, fix boredom by introducing other challenges. For a really brainy kid, that may require something that takes more focused brainpower than a sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The race to nowhere

It is not a race, it is trying to engage your child at a level that challenges them. Do you feel the same about travel sports? DS loves math and is good at it. The math taught at his school is not challenging for him. He needs more then what the school can provide. I can let him be bored and lose interest in math because the work isn't challenging or I can find ways to engge his interest.

Work on breath: music, chess, strategy games, art, science, another language. Many of these kids also struggle with social situations, so find a way to encourage social and team skills. He can do advanced math too, but it's not the end all be all.

DS is in language immersion, we love it for the challenge that it provides him. He says his language is one of his favorite classes at school. He is not going to be fluent in the language in question, that is not really how the program works, but should have a bit more exposure that should help him in MS. He takes music at school. He happens to play a fair number of board games and some role playing games. He does play team sports and he is in Scouts. Heck, we want him playing sports because it gives him something that he can do with a good number of other kids, the exercise is great, and he has fun with it.

I have no problem with the parents whose kids are ahead in a subject and whose parents move them ahead in school. I assume that those parents know their child and think that is the best decision for their kid. I don’t have problems with parents who choose to allow their kid to participate in travel sports or take music lessons or any number of activities. My only concern would be if a child was doing these things and the kid didn’t want to do it but the parents made them.

Are you thie OP? If not, why did you post all of this about your kid?