Advanced middle school math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Supplementing in math 4 hours a week and expecting the school to accommodate is ridiculous

We don’t expect the school to accommodate. DS is in class at his grade level and we have not asked for him to be advanced.

That said, the Public schools are not set it to handle exceptional kids (and I don’t think my kid is exceptional) on either end of the spectrum. They are not great at helping kids with learning issues and they are not great at helping kids who are gifted. There are kids whose parents are supplementing because their child is legit bored at school. The schools don’t want to advance kids more quickly even when there is a kid who needs it. Should the parents of a gifted kid just let the kid twiddle their thumbs during school and learn nothing? Then people complain when the parents supplement so that the kid is actually challenged and has a chance to grow. It is a catch 22 and the kid is the one who is harmed by it.

Here is the point and we have gone round and round on this. Very few kids are actually gifted, like less than .01%. That's maybe one per grade even in a high IQ/SES region like this one. Those kids should be on alternative tracks than traditional public school.

For everyone else, the kids are just smart. There is no need or reason to accelerate in math. Again taking Algebra in 7th gives you 2 Calculus plus courses in high school which is more than enough. It is not a good idea to skip more than one core math component in college.

PP here with the kid doing Calculus in 8th grade. I guess we don't fully disagree. My kid was skipped ahead two years in math in early grades in public. It quickly became apparent, though, that regular public school would never be able to meet his needs. So we left. I have no regrets with the acceleration, since it allowed my kid to compete in Mathcounts nationals, ARML starting in 6th grade, and AIME starting in 6th grade. All of these were incredible experiences for him. My kid will likely begin taking upper division math classes at the local university starting in 10th grade. I agree with you that regular public schools can not meet the needs of outliers, and it's not reasonable for the parents to expect the school to be able to do so.

I don't know that there's any benefit in skipping moderately gifted kids ahead to 6th grade Algebra I vs. just supplementing with other activities. The logistical hassle isn't worth it, the kid will still likely be bored in the higher grade level class, colleges won't care, and the kid might run out of math for 12th grade. My other child has been perfectly well served with Algebra I in 7th plus a little outside supplementation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Supplementing in math 4 hours a week and expecting the school to accommodate is ridiculous

We don’t expect the school to accommodate. DS is in class at his grade level and we have not asked for him to be advanced.

That said, the Public schools are not set it to handle exceptional kids (and I don’t think my kid is exceptional) on either end of the spectrum. They are not great at helping kids with learning issues and they are not great at helping kids who are gifted. There are kids whose parents are supplementing because their child is legit bored at school. The schools don’t want to advance kids more quickly even when there is a kid who needs it. Should the parents of a gifted kid just let the kid twiddle their thumbs during school and learn nothing? Then people complain when the parents supplement so that the kid is actually challenged and has a chance to grow. It is a catch 22 and the kid is the one who is harmed by it.

Here is the point and we have gone round and round on this. Very few kids are actually gifted, like less than .01%. That's maybe one per grade even in a high IQ/SES region like this one. Those kids should be on alternative tracks than traditional public school.

For everyone else, the kids are just smart. There is no need or reason to accelerate in math. Again taking Algebra in 7th gives you 2 Calculus plus courses in high school which is more than enough. It is not a good idea to skip more than one core math component in college.

PP here with the kid doing Calculus in 8th grade. I guess we don't fully disagree. My kid was skipped ahead two years in math in early grades in public. It quickly became apparent, though, that regular public school would never be able to meet his needs. So we left. I have no regrets with the acceleration, since it allowed my kid to compete in Mathcounts nationals, ARML starting in 6th grade, and AIME starting in 6th grade. All of these were incredible experiences for him. My kid will likely begin taking upper division math classes at the local university starting in 10th grade. I agree with you that regular public schools can not meet the needs of outliers, and it's not reasonable for the parents to expect the school to be able to do so.

I don't know that there's any benefit in skipping moderately gifted kids ahead to 6th grade Algebra I vs. just supplementing with other activities. The logistical hassle isn't worth it, the kid will still likely be bored in the higher grade level class, colleges won't care, and the kid might run out of math for 12th grade. My other child has been perfectly well served with Algebra I in 7th plus a little outside supplementation.

Why would they run out of math by 12th grade? The kid in algebra I in 6th grade can dual enroll in college classes in high school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Supplementing in math 4 hours a week and expecting the school to accommodate is ridiculous

We don’t expect the school to accommodate. DS is in class at his grade level and we have not asked for him to be advanced.

That said, the Public schools are not set it to handle exceptional kids (and I don’t think my kid is exceptional) on either end of the spectrum. They are not great at helping kids with learning issues and they are not great at helping kids who are gifted. There are kids whose parents are supplementing because their child is legit bored at school. The schools don’t want to advance kids more quickly even when there is a kid who needs it. Should the parents of a gifted kid just let the kid twiddle their thumbs during school and learn nothing? Then people complain when the parents supplement so that the kid is actually challenged and has a chance to grow. It is a catch 22 and the kid is the one who is harmed by it.

Here is the point and we have gone round and round on this. Very few kids are actually gifted, like less than .01%. That's maybe one per grade even in a high IQ/SES region like this one. Those kids should be on alternative tracks than traditional public school.

For everyone else, the kids are just smart. There is no need or reason to accelerate in math. Again taking Algebra in 7th gives you 2 Calculus plus courses in high school which is more than enough. It is not a good idea to skip more than one core math component in college.

PP here with the kid doing Calculus in 8th grade. I guess we don't fully disagree. My kid was skipped ahead two years in math in early grades in public. It quickly became apparent, though, that regular public school would never be able to meet his needs. So we left. I have no regrets with the acceleration, since it allowed my kid to compete in Mathcounts nationals, ARML starting in 6th grade, and AIME starting in 6th grade. All of these were incredible experiences for him. My kid will likely begin taking upper division math classes at the local university starting in 10th grade. I agree with you that regular public schools can not meet the needs of outliers, and it's not reasonable for the parents to expect the school to be able to do so.

I don't know that there's any benefit in skipping moderately gifted kids ahead to 6th grade Algebra I vs. just supplementing with other activities. The logistical hassle isn't worth it, the kid will still likely be bored in the higher grade level class, colleges won't care, and the kid might run out of math for 12th grade. My other child has been perfectly well served with Algebra I in 7th plus a little outside supplementation.

Why would they run out of math by 12th grade? The kid in algebra I in 6th grade can dual enroll in college classes in high school

Not necessarily. Kids in FCPS who don't attend TJ only have one year of dual enrollment classes available to them. They would take the DE Multivariable Calc and Linear Algebra courses in 11th grade, and then they'd be left scrambling for 12th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Supplementing in math 4 hours a week and expecting the school to accommodate is ridiculous

We don’t expect the school to accommodate. DS is in class at his grade level and we have not asked for him to be advanced.

That said, the Public schools are not set it to handle exceptional kids (and I don’t think my kid is exceptional) on either end of the spectrum. They are not great at helping kids with learning issues and they are not great at helping kids who are gifted. There are kids whose parents are supplementing because their child is legit bored at school. The schools don’t want to advance kids more quickly even when there is a kid who needs it. Should the parents of a gifted kid just let the kid twiddle their thumbs during school and learn nothing? Then people complain when the parents supplement so that the kid is actually challenged and has a chance to grow. It is a catch 22 and the kid is the one who is harmed by it.

Here is the point and we have gone round and round on this. Very few kids are actually gifted, like less than .01%. That's maybe one per grade even in a high IQ/SES region like this one. Those kids should be on alternative tracks than traditional public school.

For everyone else, the kids are just smart. There is no need or reason to accelerate in math. Again taking Algebra in 7th gives you 2 Calculus plus courses in high school which is more than enough. It is not a good idea to skip more than one core math component in college.

PP here with the kid doing Calculus in 8th grade. I guess we don't fully disagree. My kid was skipped ahead two years in math in early grades in public. It quickly became apparent, though, that regular public school would never be able to meet his needs. So we left. I have no regrets with the acceleration, since it allowed my kid to compete in Mathcounts nationals, ARML starting in 6th grade, and AIME starting in 6th grade. All of these were incredible experiences for him. My kid will likely begin taking upper division math classes at the local university starting in 10th grade. I agree with you that regular public schools can not meet the needs of outliers, and it's not reasonable for the parents to expect the school to be able to do so.

I don't know that there's any benefit in skipping moderately gifted kids ahead to 6th grade Algebra I vs. just supplementing with other activities. The logistical hassle isn't worth it, the kid will still likely be bored in the higher grade level class, colleges won't care, and the kid might run out of math for 12th grade. My other child has been perfectly well served with Algebra I in 7th plus a little outside supplementation.

Why would they run out of math by 12th grade? The kid in algebra I in 6th grade can dual enroll in college classes in high school

This. Many schools have classes for kids past Calculus and kids can take dual enrollment classes.

Someone asked why people are talking about kids who are not the OP, to share different paths and options for parents with younger kids or kids in MS.

A kid doesn't have to be gifted to need advancement. There are kids who are on grade level in most areas but excel in one specific field, like math or writing or reading. Reading and writing tend to be easier to differentiate for because a lot of that is based on assignments and can be more easily adjusted based on a kids level. You do small group work for most of language arts and you can group the strong readers and writers together. Math is different. Differentiation requires a Teacher to have the time to go deeper and/or faster for the kids who are ahead. I don't think that acceleration is the answer for every kid, but it is clearly something that is needed by some. About half the kids at our school are in Advanced Math in fifth grade, which means that all of those kids are taking 6th grade math in 5th grade. That is not radical acceleration but it is acceleration. It is not hard for me to see that there are probably a few kids in that group who could be taking Algebra in 6th grade with proper support. Most parents won't push for it, at our school it is discouraged, but I can see that there are kids who would do well with that level of acceleration.

For some parents the answer is to ask at the school and to push the school to accelerate the child. For some parents the answer is supplementing at home or with a program like AoPS or RSM. Both are options. And, again, acceleration is probably already happening for LA it is just less obvious because it is easier to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Supplementing in math 4 hours a week and expecting the school to accommodate is ridiculous

We don’t expect the school to accommodate. DS is in class at his grade level and we have not asked for him to be advanced.

That said, the Public schools are not set it to handle exceptional kids (and I don’t think my kid is exceptional) on either end of the spectrum. They are not great at helping kids with learning issues and they are not great at helping kids who are gifted. There are kids whose parents are supplementing because their child is legit bored at school. The schools don’t want to advance kids more quickly even when there is a kid who needs it. Should the parents of a gifted kid just let the kid twiddle their thumbs during school and learn nothing? Then people complain when the parents supplement so that the kid is actually challenged and has a chance to grow. It is a catch 22 and the kid is the one who is harmed by it.

Here is the point and we have gone round and round on this. Very few kids are actually gifted, like less than .01%. That's maybe one per grade even in a high IQ/SES region like this one. Those kids should be on alternative tracks than traditional public school.

For everyone else, the kids are just smart. There is no need or reason to accelerate in math. Again taking Algebra in 7th gives you 2 Calculus plus courses in high school which is more than enough. It is not a good idea to skip more than one core math component in college.

PP here with the kid doing Calculus in 8th grade. I guess we don't fully disagree. My kid was skipped ahead two years in math in early grades in public. It quickly became apparent, though, that regular public school would never be able to meet his needs. So we left. I have no regrets with the acceleration, since it allowed my kid to compete in Mathcounts nationals, ARML starting in 6th grade, and AIME starting in 6th grade. All of these were incredible experiences for him. My kid will likely begin taking upper division math classes at the local university starting in 10th grade. I agree with you that regular public schools can not meet the needs of outliers, and it's not reasonable for the parents to expect the school to be able to do so.

I don't know that there's any benefit in skipping moderately gifted kids ahead to 6th grade Algebra I vs. just supplementing with other activities. The logistical hassle isn't worth it, the kid will still likely be bored in the higher grade level class, colleges won't care, and the kid might run out of math for 12th grade. My other child has been perfectly well served with Algebra I in 7th plus a little outside supplementation.

Why would they run out of math by 12th grade? The kid in algebra I in 6th grade can dual enroll in college classes in high school

Not necessarily. Kids in FCPS who don't attend TJ only have one year of dual enrollment classes available to them. They would take the DE Multivariable Calc and Linear Algebra courses in 11th grade, and then they'd be left scrambling for 12th.

School Counselors know how to get those kids into classes, it happens frequently enough at some schools that they have a plan. And it will be happening a bit more now that the TJ admissions process has been adjusted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is in fifth grade and in Advanced Math in FCPS. He has been going to RSM for enrichment since third grade. We had a chance to listen to the math classes and realized that he was not going to be challenged in math. We asked if he wanted to take an extra class that would challenge him and he said yes. He has continue with the class since then. He also participates in a math competition class and enjoys math competitions.

We have not talked to his school about advancing him in math at school. We remind him that the work at school is important foundational work and that the extra practice is good for him because it will help him remember proper steps and procedures. He will need to be fluent and fast with these skills as he gets older so the extra practice is good for him.

He is one of the youngest kids in his grade level right now. We don't think that it is a good idea to try and advance him faster for social reasons. I don't think that he needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade so badly that he ends up in a virtual class or trying to work out going to the MS for a class in the morning and then returning to his ES. The acceleration is not worth his getting up an hour earlier to go to a different school to take a class.

Here's the long and short of it. If your child takes Algebra in 7th, some doors are being closed to him. But, they may already have been closed. If he has the natural aptitude to qualify for National Mathcounts, he would be at a huge disadvantage if he were taking Algebra in 7th or even 6th. But, only the top 4 kids in each state qualify. Unless your kid is one of those very top kids, Algebra timing is irrelevant. FWIW, my kid did participate in Mathcounts nationals, and he also took Algebra I in 4th grade. That is not at all atypical for kids at that level.

Likewise, it would be nearly impossible for a kid to progress through the USAJMO/AMO -> MOP -> IMO chain without being highly accelerated. They simply wouldn't know enough math compared to the kids who are accelerated. This would only potentially affect the top 50 or so kids in each grade level across the entire country.

If your kid isn't a complete outlier, the only benefit to taking Algebra earlier is moderately better placement in math contests at somewhat earlier ages. It won't ultimately matter that much for anything else.

Vast majority of MathCOunts national contestants have not had algebra 1 in elementary school. and probably not even 6th grade. The curriculum for these extends far beyond algebra and the regular math curriculum taught in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Trying to understand...

OP here. So the only benefit for putting a 6th grader in algebra I would be that they could compete in math competitions?

While it will help, that would not be a primary benefit. If they are able to do it, then they be able to take more advanced classes later in high school, or if they are not offered, will be taking easier classes leaving more time to do other things.
My kid will probably be taking something like math for computer science in 12th grade alongside AP classes.

[Anonymous]

This question is perhaps better to ask in advanced academic programs forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is in fifth grade and in Advanced Math in FCPS. He has been going to RSM for enrichment since third grade. We had a chance to listen to the math classes and realized that he was not going to be challenged in math. We asked if he wanted to take an extra class that would challenge him and he said yes. He has continue with the class since then. He also participates in a math competition class and enjoys math competitions.

We have not talked to his school about advancing him in math at school. We remind him that the work at school is important foundational work and that the extra practice is good for him because it will help him remember proper steps and procedures. He will need to be fluent and fast with these skills as he gets older so the extra practice is good for him.

He is one of the youngest kids in his grade level right now. We don't think that it is a good idea to try and advance him faster for social reasons. I don't think that he needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade so badly that he ends up in a virtual class or trying to work out going to the MS for a class in the morning and then returning to his ES. The acceleration is not worth his getting up an hour earlier to go to a different school to take a class.

Here's the long and short of it. If your child takes Algebra in 7th, some doors are being closed to him. But, they may already have been closed. If he has the natural aptitude to qualify for National Mathcounts, he would be at a huge disadvantage if he were taking Algebra in 7th or even 6th. But, only the top 4 kids in each state qualify. Unless your kid is one of those very top kids, Algebra timing is irrelevant. FWIW, my kid did participate in Mathcounts nationals, and he also took Algebra I in 4th grade. That is not at all atypical for kids at that level.

Likewise, it would be nearly impossible for a kid to progress through the USAJMO/AMO -> MOP -> IMO chain without being highly accelerated. They simply wouldn't know enough math compared to the kids who are accelerated. This would only potentially affect the top 50 or so kids in each grade level across the entire country.

If your kid isn't a complete outlier, the only benefit to taking Algebra earlier is moderately better placement in math contests at somewhat earlier ages. It won't ultimately matter that much for anything else.

Vast majority of MathCOunts national contestants have not had algebra 1 in elementary school. and probably not even 6th grade. The curriculum for these extends far beyond algebra and the regular math curriculum taught in school.

You know absolutely nothing about Mathcounts or kids at that level. Maybe some of the kids in really weak states are taking Algebra in 7th. The majority of the kids are much more advanced. When I spoke to parents of the other competitors, it was common for their kids to be taking pre Calc,Calc, or even post Calc. My kid’s non top 10 team had two kids in AP calculus, one in pre Calc, and one in Algebra 2. The Algebra 2 kid was a 6th grader. Even if the kids aren’t allowed to accelerate through their school, they’re doing so at AoPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Supplementing in math 4 hours a week and expecting the school to accommodate is ridiculous

We don’t expect the school to accommodate. DS is in class at his grade level and we have not asked for him to be advanced.

That said, the Public schools are not set it to handle exceptional kids (and I don’t think my kid is exceptional) on either end of the spectrum. They are not great at helping kids with learning issues and they are not great at helping kids who are gifted. There are kids whose parents are supplementing because their child is legit bored at school. The schools don’t want to advance kids more quickly even when there is a kid who needs it. Should the parents of a gifted kid just let the kid twiddle their thumbs during school and learn nothing? Then people complain when the parents supplement so that the kid is actually challenged and has a chance to grow. It is a catch 22 and the kid is the one who is harmed by it.

Here is the point and we have gone round and round on this. Very few kids are actually gifted, like less than .01%. That's maybe one per grade even in a high IQ/SES region like this one. Those kids should be on alternative tracks than traditional public school.

For everyone else, the kids are just smart. There is no need or reason to accelerate in math. Again taking Algebra in 7th gives you 2 Calculus plus courses in high school which is more than enough. It is not a good idea to skip more than one core math component in college.

PP here with the kid doing Calculus in 8th grade. I guess we don't fully disagree. My kid was skipped ahead two years in math in early grades in public. It quickly became apparent, though, that regular public school would never be able to meet his needs. So we left. I have no regrets with the acceleration, since it allowed my kid to compete in Mathcounts nationals, ARML starting in 6th grade, and AIME starting in 6th grade. All of these were incredible experiences for him. My kid will likely begin taking upper division math classes at the local university starting in 10th grade. I agree with you that regular public schools can not meet the needs of outliers, and it's not reasonable for the parents to expect the school to be able to do so.

I don't know that there's any benefit in skipping moderately gifted kids ahead to 6th grade Algebra I vs. just supplementing with other activities. The logistical hassle isn't worth it, the kid will still likely be bored in the higher grade level class, colleges won't care, and the kid might run out of math for 12th grade. My other child has been perfectly well served with Algebra I in 7th plus a little outside supplementation.

Why would they run out of math by 12th grade? The kid in algebra I in 6th grade can dual enroll in college classes in high school

Not necessarily. Kids in FCPS who don't attend TJ only have one year of dual enrollment classes available to them. They would take the DE Multivariable Calc and Linear Algebra courses in 11th grade, and then they'd be left scrambling for 12th.

Another issue is there is mostly no way to get credit for these classes and in many cases, they would be not equivalent to what they would take at a real university anyway. Best advice is focus on building a strong foundation and don't rush through everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Supplementing in math 4 hours a week and expecting the school to accommodate is ridiculous

We don’t expect the school to accommodate. DS is in class at his grade level and we have not asked for him to be advanced.

That said, the Public schools are not set it to handle exceptional kids (and I don’t think my kid is exceptional) on either end of the spectrum. They are not great at helping kids with learning issues and they are not great at helping kids who are gifted. There are kids whose parents are supplementing because their child is legit bored at school. The schools don’t want to advance kids more quickly even when there is a kid who needs it. Should the parents of a gifted kid just let the kid twiddle their thumbs during school and learn nothing? Then people complain when the parents supplement so that the kid is actually challenged and has a chance to grow. It is a catch 22 and the kid is the one who is harmed by it.

Here is the point and we have gone round and round on this. Very few kids are actually gifted, like less than .01%. That's maybe one per grade even in a high IQ/SES region like this one. Those kids should be on alternative tracks than traditional public school.

For everyone else, the kids are just smart. There is no need or reason to accelerate in math. Again taking Algebra in 7th gives you 2 Calculus plus courses in high school which is more than enough. It is not a good idea to skip more than one core math component in college.

PP here with the kid doing Calculus in 8th grade. I guess we don't fully disagree. My kid was skipped ahead two years in math in early grades in public. It quickly became apparent, though, that regular public school would never be able to meet his needs. So we left. I have no regrets with the acceleration, since it allowed my kid to compete in Mathcounts nationals, ARML starting in 6th grade, and AIME starting in 6th grade. All of these were incredible experiences for him. My kid will likely begin taking upper division math classes at the local university starting in 10th grade. I agree with you that regular public schools can not meet the needs of outliers, and it's not reasonable for the parents to expect the school to be able to do so.

I don't know that there's any benefit in skipping moderately gifted kids ahead to 6th grade Algebra I vs. just supplementing with other activities. The logistical hassle isn't worth it, the kid will still likely be bored in the higher grade level class, colleges won't care, and the kid might run out of math for 12th grade. My other child has been perfectly well served with Algebra I in 7th plus a little outside supplementation.

Why would they run out of math by 12th grade? The kid in algebra I in 6th grade can dual enroll in college classes in high school

Not necessarily. Kids in FCPS who don't attend TJ only have one year of dual enrollment classes available to them. They would take the DE Multivariable Calc and Linear Algebra courses in 11th grade, and then they'd be left scrambling for 12th.

Another issue is there is mostly no way to get credit for these classes and in many cases, they would be not equivalent to what they would take at a real university anyway. Best advice is focus on building a strong foundation and don't rush through everything.

Wow. Now, I know you're full of shit and just pushing your agenda of mediocrity for everyone. Most DE classes in most school systems are literally college classes. Like, the kid goes to the college, takes a college class alongside college students, and then gets high school credit too. It's equivalent to what they would take at a real university, because they are literally taking it at a real university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You know absolutely nothing about Mathcounts or kids at that level. Maybe some of the kids in really weak states are taking Algebra in 7th. The majority of the kids are much more advanced. When I spoke to parents of the other competitors, it was common for their kids to be taking pre Calc,Calc, or even post Calc. My kid’s non top 10 team had two kids in AP calculus, one in pre Calc, and one in Algebra 2. The Algebra 2 kid was a 6th grader. Even if the kids aren’t allowed to accelerate through their school, they’re doing so at AoPS.

Yes it will be common to have advanced kids, but the majority of nationals contestants are not this advanced in classes. There will be more doing things on the side certainly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You know absolutely nothing about Mathcounts or kids at that level. Maybe some of the kids in really weak states are taking Algebra in 7th. The majority of the kids are much more advanced. When I spoke to parents of the other competitors, it was common for their kids to be taking pre Calc,Calc, or even post Calc. My kid’s non top 10 team had two kids in AP calculus, one in pre Calc, and one in Algebra 2. The Algebra 2 kid was a 6th grader. Even if the kids aren’t allowed to accelerate through their school, they’re doing so at AoPS.

Yes it will be common to have advanced kids, but the majority of nationals contestants are not this advanced in classes. There will be more doing things on the side certainly.

Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Citation for this? I was actually present at 2022 Mathcounts Nationals and spoke with parents and coaches. And you were.....?
You're full of shit. The kids there are accelerated to the maximum level allowed by their school districts. Most areas are more willing to accelerate kids than FCPS is. That being said, even FCPS has maybe 10 kids per year taking pre-Calc and Calc in 8th. Kids would get nowhere in Mathcounts without knowing Algebra, Geometry, and even Algebra II (and number theory, and Counting and Probability, and other stuff outside of the regular math curriculum).

There is a difference between 8th grade precalc and 5th grade algebra. I would expect FCPS has even more than that in precalc. LCPS has individual schools with whole sections taking Algebra 2 w trig, though they don't let you take calculus right after that.

I've competed at nationals, no one on my team had algebra before7th grade. That was a while ago and the contest is tougher now(though the top student scored 12 points higher than 2nd place, and 20 higher than the 5th place kid who moved up to 1st.) Even this year, I know several kids in Virginia who nearly made nationals last year and thus a decent chance this year, none had algebra before 6th in school. I think you are giving too much weight to the kids you saw, and the majority are not taking algebra in 5th grade. There are a bunch of states where 30 score is enough to advance, and some even 20.

Your information is out of date. BothMathcounts and AMC 10/12 cranked up the difficulty in the last 5 years in a way that, for better or worse, favors more highly accelerated kids. There also are more schools permitting hyper acceleration than ever before.

You did move the goalpost there. The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA. They simply can’t be. A kid doing Algebra in 6th and then doubling up later is competitive. A kid stuck learning nothing in school but hyper accelerated at AoPS (like many FCPS kids) could be competitive. A kid who hasn’t even finished geometry would have no chance.

My observation was that every kid at Nationals fit into one of these categories. 1. Hyper accelerated at school. 2. Bored and wasting time in school math but hyper accelerated at AoPS. 3. Representing a weak, non competitive state.