Advanced middle school math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
-- STEM PhD who loves math who won the graduation award at my university as the top math student

Wait. What? There are STEM PhD programs that give special awards to the top math student getting a PhD. That's just ludicrous. The fact you're bragging about it as if it gives you opinion any weight is even more absurd.

There are certainly undergraduate programs that give awards at graduation to top students in different departments. The person then went on to get a PhD. What exactly is your expertise?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thanks for the suggestions. I’m not sure how far he could realistically be accelerated. I could potentially have him take Alg I in 6th grade- which I’m certain he would test into. But then he would be placing into calculus by 9th grade, then what?

Perhaps math competitions would be an avenue to explore. Those with experience, tell me more. I’ve never heard of these. How do we get involved? Any ones you recommended? We are in Midwest

Sorry if this is long winded. I'm going to stick with the contests most easily available for anyone to sign up.
-AMC 8 takes place in January and has to be administered through a school group, but anyone should be able to sign up. If your child's school is not offering it, go here https://www.maa.org/math-competitions/amc-8/locations and click on the zip code search to find the nearest place offering the test. You should be able to sign your kid up through them. You may have to wait until November for schools to be registered for the test. Tests from previous years are here: https://artofproblemsolving.com/wiki/index.php/AMC_8_Problems_and_Solutions

-Mathcounts takes place in February and is only open to 6th-8th graders. Generally, you sign up with your school. If your school is not offering it, you can sign your child up as a non school competitor. Last year's competitions are here: https://www.mathcounts.org/resources/past-competitions

-Continental Math League https://www.cmleague.com allows you to enroll your child as a homeschooler if your school is not offering the program.

-Mathleague.org runs elementary contests for 3rd-6th grade and middle school contests for 6th-8th. Anyone can sign their school up to compete, and then you can register for any contest you'd like to attend. Many of the contests are online. The website has some free practice tests.

-Math Kangaroo https://mathkangaroo.org/mks/ lets anyone sign up. You just need to find the closest testing center and sign up through them. The problems are a little less math based and a little more logical reasoning.

-MOEMS must be run through a school, but many schools offer it. You should ask your child's school whether they're willing to do MOEMS.

This is an excellent list. The AMC contests beyond middle school (AMC-10/12) are part of a ladder leading up to the International Math Olympiad (AMC-10/12 -> AIME -> USAJMO/USAMO -> Math Olympiad Summer Program -> IMO). Kids that are really motivated and interested in math will find a wealth of resources on the web to help them through these competitions, and a great set of like-minded peers.

[Anonymous]

DS is in fifth grade and in Advanced Math in FCPS. He has been going to RSM for enrichment since third grade. We had a chance to listen to the math classes and realized that he was not going to be challenged in math. We asked if he wanted to take an extra class that would challenge him and he said yes. He has continue with the class since then. He also participates in a math competition class and enjoys math competitions.

We have not talked to his school about advancing him in math at school. We remind him that the work at school is important foundational work and that the extra practice is good for him because it will help him remember proper steps and procedures. He will need to be fluent and fast with these skills as he gets older so the extra practice is good for him.

He is one of the youngest kids in his grade level right now. We don't think that it is a good idea to try and advance him faster for social reasons. I don't think that he needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade so badly that he ends up in a virtual class or trying to work out going to the MS for a class in the morning and then returning to his ES. The acceleration is not worth his getting up an hour earlier to go to a different school to take a class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thanks for the suggestions. I’m not sure how far he could realistically be accelerated. I could potentially have him take Alg I in 6th grade- which I’m certain he would test into. But then he would be placing into calculus by 9th grade, then what?

Perhaps math competitions would be an avenue to explore. Those with experience, tell me more. I’ve never heard of these. How do we get involved? Any ones you recommended? We are in Midwest

OP- As you know, Midwest is a huge geographic area. Can you tell us approx where?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thanks for the suggestions. I’m not sure how far he could realistically be accelerated. I could potentially have him take Alg I in 6th grade- which I’m certain he would test into. But then he would be placing into calculus by 9th grade, then what?

Perhaps math competitions would be an avenue to explore. Those with experience, tell me more. I’ve never heard of these. How do we get involved? Any ones you recommended? We are in Midwest

Sorry if this is long winded. I'm going to stick with the contests most easily available for anyone to sign up.
-AMC 8 takes place in January and has to be administered through a school group, but anyone should be able to sign up. If your child's school is not offering it, go here https://www.maa.org/math-competitions/amc-8/locations and click on the zip code search to find the nearest place offering the test. You should be able to sign your kid up through them. You may have to wait until November for schools to be registered for the test. Tests from previous years are here: https://artofproblemsolving.com/wiki/index.php/AMC_8_Problems_and_Solutions

-Mathcounts takes place in February and is only open to 6th-8th graders. Generally, you sign up with your school. If your school is not offering it, you can sign your child up as a non school competitor. Last year's competitions are here: https://www.mathcounts.org/resources/past-competitions

-Continental Math League https://www.cmleague.com allows you to enroll your child as a homeschooler if your school is not offering the program.

-Mathleague.org runs elementary contests for 3rd-6th grade and middle school contests for 6th-8th. Anyone can sign their school up to compete, and then you can register for any contest you'd like to attend. Many of the contests are online. The website has some free practice tests.

-Math Kangaroo https://mathkangaroo.org/mks/ lets anyone sign up. You just need to find the closest testing center and sign up through them. The problems are a little less math based and a little more logical reasoning.

-MOEMS must be run through a school, but many schools offer it. You should ask your child's school whether they're willing to do MOEMS.

This is an excellent list. The AMC contests beyond middle school (AMC-10/12) are part of a ladder leading up to the International Math Olympiad (AMC-10/12 -> AIME -> USAJMO/USAMO -> Math Olympiad Summer Program -> IMO). Kids that are really motivated and interested in math will find a wealth of resources on the web to help them through these competitions, and a great set of like-minded peers.

Undoubtedly, AMC 10/12 and beyond are wonderful contests. I just wouldn't recommend them for 6th graders who have never done math competitions, like OP's kid. ARML is another wonderful contest, but not appropriate for OP's kid at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS is in fifth grade and in Advanced Math in FCPS. He has been going to RSM for enrichment since third grade. We had a chance to listen to the math classes and realized that he was not going to be challenged in math. We asked if he wanted to take an extra class that would challenge him and he said yes. He has continue with the class since then. He also participates in a math competition class and enjoys math competitions.

We have not talked to his school about advancing him in math at school. We remind him that the work at school is important foundational work and that the extra practice is good for him because it will help him remember proper steps and procedures. He will need to be fluent and fast with these skills as he gets older so the extra practice is good for him.

He is one of the youngest kids in his grade level right now. We don't think that it is a good idea to try and advance him faster for social reasons. I don't think that he needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade so badly that he ends up in a virtual class or trying to work out going to the MS for a class in the morning and then returning to his ES. The acceleration is not worth his getting up an hour earlier to go to a different school to take a class.

Here's the long and short of it. If your child takes Algebra in 7th, some doors are being closed to him. But, they may already have been closed. If he has the natural aptitude to qualify for National Mathcounts, he would be at a huge disadvantage if he were taking Algebra in 7th or even 6th. But, only the top 4 kids in each state qualify. Unless your kid is one of those very top kids, Algebra timing is irrelevant. FWIW, my kid did participate in Mathcounts nationals, and he also took Algebra I in 4th grade. That is not at all atypical for kids at that level.

Likewise, it would be nearly impossible for a kid to progress through the USAJMO/AMO -> MOP -> IMO chain without being highly accelerated. They simply wouldn't know enough math compared to the kids who are accelerated. This would only potentially affect the top 50 or so kids in each grade level across the entire country.

If your kid isn't a complete outlier, the only benefit to taking Algebra earlier is moderately better placement in math contests at somewhat earlier ages. It won't ultimately matter that much for anything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^Forgot to add:
The types of kids who end up accelerated in math usually LOVE math. It's a travesty to take a kid's favorite school subject and turn it into a boring slog. It also tends to make them dislike school as a whole.

Why not just have them go extra deep instead of being more accelerated that seems like a better approach (but probably more work for the teacher/school system)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Forgot to add:
The types of kids who end up accelerated in math usually LOVE math. It's a travesty to take a kid's favorite school subject and turn it into a boring slog. It also tends to make them dislike school as a whole.

Why not just have them go extra deep instead of being more accelerated that seems like a better approach (but probably more work for the teacher/school system)

You just answered your own question. It's much less work for the school to jump a kid ahead a year than it is for them to provide extra depth or enrichment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to accelerate, there is 0 purpose

Algebra in 7th puts you in second semester+ Calculus in high school. Almost all universities/colleges/math people don't recommend skipping more than one core math class in college.

Mathematically gifted benefit from acceleration. They don't skip anything. Your comment is like saying an athletically gifted child doesn't need elite coaching.

OP--If you can't get your child into an in-person class at their level, look into a private tutor or online independent study. You'll find a lot more resources in homeschooling groups too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Forgot to add:
The types of kids who end up accelerated in math usually LOVE math. It's a travesty to take a kid's favorite school subject and turn it into a boring slog. It also tends to make them dislike school as a whole.

Why not just have them go extra deep instead of being more accelerated that seems like a better approach (but probably more work for the teacher/school system)

You can do both, but you'll need to do it on your own and not expect much from the public school system. It's much easier to meet the needs of mathematically gifted in a homeschool setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Forgot to add:
The types of kids who end up accelerated in math usually LOVE math. It's a travesty to take a kid's favorite school subject and turn it into a boring slog. It also tends to make them dislike school as a whole.

Why not just have them go extra deep instead of being more accelerated that seems like a better approach (but probably more work for the teacher/school system)

You can do both, but you'll need to do it on your own and not expect much from the public school system. It's much easier to meet the needs of mathematically gifted in a homeschool setting.

You can do both but personally I'd focus on going deep with AOPS or a tutor vs accelerating more.. it's not a race and your kid will probably benefit from taking classes post Linear Algebra at the university he or she is attending vs taking them at a local college while in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Forgot to add:
The types of kids who end up accelerated in math usually LOVE math. It's a travesty to take a kid's favorite school subject and turn it into a boring slog. It also tends to make them dislike school as a whole.

Why not just have them go extra deep instead of being more accelerated that seems like a better approach (but probably more work for the teacher/school system)

You just answered your own question. It's much less work for the school to jump a kid ahead a year than it is for them to provide extra depth or enrichment.

Plenty of schools have intensified classes starting in middle school.

[Anonymous]

If you want to try enrichment:

Hoagies has links to enrichment websites for all subjects and ages, here’s their page of math links.
https://www.hoagiesgifted.org/math.htm

The National Math Festival also has a page of math resources.
https://www.nationalmathfestival.org/watch-play/more-math-resources

You might want to see if there are any math circles in your area that your child could join.
https://www.nationalmathfestival.org/people/national-association-math-circles-namc

Theoni Pappas has some great books about math topics that are outside most standard middle school math classes.
https://www.amazon.com/Theoni-Pappas/e/B001K7YRT2%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share

Arthur Benjamin is a math professor at Harvey Mudd and also styles himself as a mathemagician. YouTube has some great videos of him explaining how to do amazing things with mental math:
https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=arthur+benjamin

St. Ann’s School posts a weekly math mindteaser (with solution)
https://sites.google.com/a/saintannsny.org/problem-of-the-week/welcome

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Forgot to add:
The types of kids who end up accelerated in math usually LOVE math. It's a travesty to take a kid's favorite school subject and turn it into a boring slog. It also tends to make them dislike school as a whole.

Why not just have them go extra deep instead of being more accelerated that seems like a better approach (but probably more work for the teacher/school system)

You just answered your own question. It's much less work for the school to jump a kid ahead a year than it is for them to provide extra depth or enrichment.

Plenty of schools have intensified classes starting in middle school.

That's wonderful for kids who are regular smart kids. It does nothing for kids well above that level. Within the intensified class, very few teachers have the time or will to provide increased depth or enrichment for the 99.9th percentile kids. OP, if you think your kid is an outlier, check out the Davidson Gifted forums. They will be more useful than threads here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is in fifth grade and in Advanced Math in FCPS. He has been going to RSM for enrichment since third grade. We had a chance to listen to the math classes and realized that he was not going to be challenged in math. We asked if he wanted to take an extra class that would challenge him and he said yes. He has continue with the class since then. He also participates in a math competition class and enjoys math competitions.

We have not talked to his school about advancing him in math at school. We remind him that the work at school is important foundational work and that the extra practice is good for him because it will help him remember proper steps and procedures. He will need to be fluent and fast with these skills as he gets older so the extra practice is good for him.

He is one of the youngest kids in his grade level right now. We don't think that it is a good idea to try and advance him faster for social reasons. I don't think that he needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade so badly that he ends up in a virtual class or trying to work out going to the MS for a class in the morning and then returning to his ES. The acceleration is not worth his getting up an hour earlier to go to a different school to take a class.

Here's the long and short of it. If your child takes Algebra in 7th, some doors are being closed to him. But, they may already have been closed. If he has the natural aptitude to qualify for National Mathcounts, he would be at a huge disadvantage if he were taking Algebra in 7th or even 6th. But, only the top 4 kids in each state qualify. Unless your kid is one of those very top kids, Algebra timing is irrelevant. FWIW, my kid did participate in Mathcounts nationals, and he also took Algebra I in 4th grade. That is not at all atypical for kids at that level.

Likewise, it would be nearly impossible for a kid to progress through the USAJMO/AMO -> MOP -> IMO chain without being highly accelerated. They simply wouldn't know enough math compared to the kids who are accelerated. This would only potentially affect the top 50 or so kids in each grade level across the entire country.

If your kid isn't a complete outlier, the only benefit to taking Algebra earlier is moderately better placement in math contests at somewhat earlier ages. It won't ultimately matter that much for anything else.

Trying to understand...

OP here. So the only benefit for putting a 6th grader in algebra I would be that they could compete in math competitions? While they sound fun, that wouldn’t be our ultimate goal. I’m just trying to get the appropriate level class based on his ability. His school is 6-8th grade. The “in house” honors class for 8th grade is Algebra I, so he could potentially take it since he is in the same building. But to my knowledge, no 6th graders do this and I think the counselors will not be agreeable to it. When he is in 7-8th grade he will have access to other programs in the district (but outside of his school) that are even more accelerated, but they don’t offer those to the 6th graders.