Is this a Fox News talking point? (Defecating in the streets of NYC)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's always been amazing how people in rural red state America always seem to think they know so much more about what's going on in cities they never even visit than the people who actually live there do.

Hubris fueled by propaganda.

This! It was surprising to hear folks in KS argue with me about the state of DC…where I live. Also I don’t live in Reston, I live in NWDC!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's always been amazing how people in rural red state America always seem to think they know so much more about what's going on in cities they never even visit than the people who actually live there do.

Hubris fueled by propaganda.

This! It was surprising to hear folks in KS argue with me about the state of DC…where I live. Also I don’t live in Reston, I live in NWDC!

NWDC hardly reflects the rest of DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's always been amazing how people in rural red state America always seem to think they know so much more about what's going on in cities they never even visit than the people who actually live there do.

Hubris fueled by propaganda.

This! It was surprising to hear folks in KS argue with me about the state of DC…where I live. Also I don’t live in Reston, I live in NWDC!

NWDC hardly reflects the rest of DC.

Yes, I know because I live EotP.

[Anonymous]

Housing is too expensive. America has no social safety net anymore for the mentally I’ll and working poor.

[Anonymous]

Anyone complaining about the smell in NYC clearly did not live there in the 70s, 80s or early 90s and must only remember the disneyfication of Times Square in the late 90s/early aughts. NYC has always had the distinctive smell of urine mixed with subway steam and pretzels/nuts. Sometimes I catch the smell in DC and it takes me right back!

God, I remember the smell in one particular subway station (maybe under Sax 5th Avenue?) was like all the pee in the world came there to die.

Agree San Fran has gotten worse since the 80s/90s except the
Mission is probably better—that used to be mostly drug addicts and runaways being trafficked before SF got all fancy with the tech boom.

I feel like part of the problem may be short memory—cities had this prettification and lots of rich people moving in over the past 20 years …. But it’s probably not the natural state for cities. Go back 100 years and there was open sewage on the lower east side and people dying in the gutter. So it’s definitely nicer than it was then! I hope that doesn’t make me sound callous—I think people should care about this. But to act like it’s some recent phenomenon—shit in city streets—is really myopic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BLAME RONALD REAGAN.

Loved ones cannot force commitment thanks to Ronnie. It’s federal law and there is nothing cities can do about the mentally ill homeless beyond a 72 hour hold in certain circumstances.

Locking away people indefinitely because they have a form of mental illness — many of whom are veterans — and pumping them full of antipsychotic medications without proof they are a danger to themselves or others doesn’t seem like a great system that worked very well. Neither did forced sterilization and a battery of other horrors.

I don’t know the stats, but anecdotally, I feel like I’m seeing a lot of younger - 20-somethings - homeless who are clearly strung out on drugs. Not sure if that is what others are seeing as well or if there is accurate data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone complaining about the smell in NYC clearly did not live there in the 70s, 80s or early 90s and must only remember the disneyfication of Times Square in the late 90s/early aughts. NYC has always had the distinctive smell of urine mixed with subway steam and pretzels/nuts. Sometimes I catch the smell in DC and it takes me right back!

God, I remember the smell in one particular subway station (maybe under Sax 5th Avenue?) was like all the pee in the world came there to die.

Agree San Fran has gotten worse since the 80s/90s except the
Mission is probably better—that used to be mostly drug addicts and runaways being trafficked before SF got all fancy with the tech boom.

I feel like part of the problem may be short memory—cities had this prettification and lots of rich people moving in over the past 20 years …. But it’s probably not the natural state for cities. Go back 100 years and there was open sewage on the lower east side and people dying in the gutter. So it’s definitely nicer than it was then! I hope that doesn’t make me sound callous—I think people should care about this. But to act like it’s some recent phenomenon—shit in city streets—is really myopic.

As a poverty lawyer, I won’t say you are wrong. But, I will ask why you so quickly breezed past the progress that was made between 2000-2020 in nyc, SF, and elsewhere.

Google housing first. It worked, until it didn’t. And we should ask why.

Sure, there’s covid. But there’s something else. A growing economic inequality coupled with turning a blind eye to human suffering. I mean, it’s gotten so bad that my liberal friends and liberals on dcum are beyond being desensitized; people are seemingly defending the sad state of things that everyone should be shocked by.

This isn’t normal. It was okay in the 70s and 80s, and it’s not okay now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone complaining about the smell in NYC clearly did not live there in the 70s, 80s or early 90s and must only remember the disneyfication of Times Square in the late 90s/early aughts. NYC has always had the distinctive smell of urine mixed with subway steam and pretzels/nuts. Sometimes I catch the smell in DC and it takes me right back!

God, I remember the smell in one particular subway station (maybe under Sax 5th Avenue?) was like all the pee in the world came there to die.

Agree San Fran has gotten worse since the 80s/90s except the
Mission is probably better—that used to be mostly drug addicts and runaways being trafficked before SF got all fancy with the tech boom.

I feel like part of the problem may be short memory—cities had this prettification and lots of rich people moving in over the past 20 years …. But it’s probably not the natural state for cities. Go back 100 years and there was open sewage on the lower east side and people dying in the gutter. So it’s definitely nicer than it was then! I hope that doesn’t make me sound callous—I think people should care about this. But to act like it’s some recent phenomenon—shit in city streets—is really myopic.

As a poverty lawyer, I won’t say you are wrong. But, I will ask why you so quickly breezed past the progress that was made between 2000-2020 in nyc, SF, and elsewhere.

Google housing first. It worked, until it didn’t. And we should ask why.

Sure, there’s covid. But there’s something else. A growing economic inequality coupled with turning a blind eye to human suffering. I mean, it’s gotten so bad that my liberal friends and liberals on dcum are beyond being desensitized; people are seemingly defending the sad state of things that everyone should be shocked by.

This isn’t normal. It was okay in the 70s and 80s, and it’s not okay now.

^^^
It wasn’t okay in the 70s. Stupid iPhone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BLAME RONALD REAGAN.

Loved ones cannot force commitment thanks to Ronnie. It’s federal law and there is nothing cities can do about the mentally ill homeless beyond a 72 hour hold in certain circumstances.

Locking away people indefinitely because they have a form of mental illness — many of whom are veterans — and pumping them full of antipsychotic medications without proof they are a danger to themselves or others doesn’t seem like a great system that worked very well. Neither did forced sterilization and a battery of other horrors.

I don’t know the stats, but anecdotally, I feel like I’m seeing a lot of younger - 20-somethings - homeless who are clearly strung out on drugs. Not sure if that is what others are seeing as well or if there is accurate data?

Yes, there is a dramatic uptick in homeless young adults. Los Angeles has seen that trend for nearly a decade. It’s very worrisome.

My two cents: while it was noble to decriminalize pot, I think one unintended consequence was a lax attitude to all drugs. Something prompted the uptick in addiction. I’m sure someone will say it was opioids and I’m sure that played a role. But it’s far easier for your average teen to get pot than opioids.

My research pals in the advocacy world quietly whisper that decriminalizing pot helped some teens/adults (mostly inner city blacks) while unintentionally harming others (the suburban kids you now see in rehab or on the streets).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone complaining about the smell in NYC clearly did not live there in the 70s, 80s or early 90s and must only remember the disneyfication of Times Square in the late 90s/early aughts. NYC has always had the distinctive smell of urine mixed with subway steam and pretzels/nuts. Sometimes I catch the smell in DC and it takes me right back!

God, I remember the smell in one particular subway station (maybe under Sax 5th Avenue?) was like all the pee in the world came there to die.

Agree San Fran has gotten worse since the 80s/90s except the
Mission is probably better—that used to be mostly drug addicts and runaways being trafficked before SF got all fancy with the tech boom.

I feel like part of the problem may be short memory—cities had this prettification and lots of rich people moving in over the past 20 years …. But it’s probably not the natural state for cities. Go back 100 years and there was open sewage on the lower east side and people dying in the gutter. So it’s definitely nicer than it was then! I hope that doesn’t make me sound callous—I think people should care about this. But to act like it’s some recent phenomenon—shit in city streets—is really myopic.

As a poverty lawyer, I won’t say you are wrong. But, I will ask why you so quickly breezed past the progress that was made between 2000-2020 in nyc, SF, and elsewhere.

Google housing first. It worked, until it didn’t. And we should ask why.

Sure, there’s covid. But there’s something else. A growing economic inequality coupled with turning a blind eye to human suffering. I mean, it’s gotten so bad that my liberal friends and liberals on dcum are beyond being desensitized; people are seemingly defending the sad state of things that everyone should be shocked by.

This isn’t normal. It was okay in the 70s and 80s, and it’s not okay now.

DP. From a historical perspective, it is normal. People with money and options have not chosen to live inside a city for most of history. There was a short renaissance for like 20 years, which is a blip in time. The rich have long hid their wealth by buying hidden country estates, unseen from the road by trees and distance, away from people.

I dont think people mean to be insensitive. This is a damned if you do, damned if you dont situation. If you take people involuntarily into custody, you violate their rights. If you leave them in the city, you slowly erode the safety and vibrance of the city and chase out people of means. If you offer housing on a voluntary basis, the housing is quickly destroyed and becomes a blight on the same level as actual homlessness. And given the urgency of other issues, people arent willing to invest in this seemingly unsolvable, vexing problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People in the street = crap in the streets.

She's right to be worried. I used to work in some rather forbidding places overseas, and people crapped outside due to a lack of modern plumbing and irregular service for the port-a-johns. The feces becomes airborne and leads to illnesses. You can get an eye infection, esp if you wear contacts.

It's not something we, as a society, should take squatting down. This is a public health issue, not a partisan talking point.

But she used to regularly go to NYC pre pandemic, and enjoyed walking around, shopping etc. So I guess my question is, in three years, NYC is now a sea of poop?

I have many friends who have visited there in the last year since vaccines and post their pics....funny that they aren't covered in poop? Seems like a Fox news TP to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's always been amazing how people in rural red state America always seem to think they know so much more about what's going on in cities they never even visit than the people who actually live there do.

Hubris fueled by propaganda.

And your statement is true for so many blue state DCUM posters who frequently make disparaging comments about "rubes" and "uneducated, ignorant, meth-addicted rednecks" in red states.

But these are facts. Red states have some of the least educated people, the maternal and infant mortality rates are some of the worst in the world, and meth and opioids are a huge problem. Worst in the world.

Liberals are the snowflakes, but calling out these well documented facts are "disparaging?" Oh that's really rich. Sorry, not sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's always been amazing how people in rural red state America always seem to think they know so much more about what's going on in cities they never even visit than the people who actually live there do.

Hubris fueled by propaganda.

This! It was surprising to hear folks in KS argue with me about the state of DC…where I live. Also I don’t live in Reston, I live in NWDC!

You are referring to our nation's capitol, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's always been amazing how people in rural red state America always seem to think they know so much more about what's going on in cities they never even visit than the people who actually live there do.

Hubris fueled by propaganda.

And your statement is true for so many blue state DCUM posters who frequently make disparaging comments about "rubes" and "uneducated, ignorant, meth-addicted rednecks" in red states.

But these are facts. Red states have some of the least educated people, the maternal and infant mortality rates are some of the worst in the world, and meth and opioids are a huge problem. Worst in the world.

Liberals are the snowflakes, but calling out these well documented facts are "disparaging?" Oh that's really rich. Sorry, not sorry.

You're showing your true self, but you do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's always been amazing how people in rural red state America always seem to think they know so much more about what's going on in cities they never even visit than the people who actually live there do.

Hubris fueled by propaganda.

Oh, the irony!

If only. See, the problem is that many of us here in DC originally came from rural redneck communities and we do actually know what we're talking about when it comes to the dead-ends we escaped from.

Yes, and many others in DC have never set foot outside their "safe zone," which ONLY includes large, metropolitan areas. You can see post after post of these urbanites slamming "flyover country" and the people who live there. You may have come from a "redneck" community, but many small towns and rural areas are not full of ignorant rednecks. Not to mention, funny that these people never want to address all the ignorant, low-education people living IN the cities themselves.

Shows you don't actually know.

The cities are extremely diverse. Far more of us have come from elsewhere, and have traveled extensively around the country and around the world than is the case in your homogenous little community were people act like you need a passport to cross the county line.

Who are you? Do you hear yourself?! We can all hear an insufferable snob speaking.

LOL most of us here on DCUM are your former neighbors. The ones who escaped to the cities rather than be trapped in dead ends with limited job opportunities. And that means we actually do know quite a bit about you, your community, your cultural realities and the fake front you try and present here on DCUM. So how about you stop lying and pretending and acting like we don't know anything about you. And if speaking the blunt truth gets us labeled as "insufferable snobs" that then becomes more a statement about yourself than it does us.

DP.
The funniest part of your post is "escaped to cities."

Just a reminder that YOUR limited experience with rural life, or life outside the "cities" you escaped to is simply YOUR experience. People who live outside your "cities" are not a monolith.

Sure hon. Keep telling yourself that. I hear my own life story echoed over and over and over from friends I meet here in DC who grew up in Kansas, in Idaho, in Arkansas, Missouri, et cetera. You're more of a monolith than you realize.

DP.

There’s nothing honorable about escaping your red state.

The honorable thing to do is go back and do the hard work necessary to fuel evolution. Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, etc. need a continuous influx of educated democrats to help spark moderation of aggressively conservative policy.

Anyone can abandon their community for a better life in a thriving metro area. Anyone. It doesn’t make you better. It’s just the easy, selfish thing to do.

Sure, we could go back. But why? What's to draw us back? MAGAs behaving like a-holes is a huge turn-off. I still have family there, I go and visit, I keep in touch with people I went to high school with - of the ones I went to high school with, many moved away like I did, and they are normal people. But when I talk to ones who stayed behind, it's sad, and sometimes shocking, for example a month ago when I was back home and ran into a former high school friend who made some completely casual, unvarnished comments that were extremely racist... and in the back of my mind I suddenly realized that's the kind of thing he *always* used to say but back when I lived there it wasn't quite as shocking because that kind of language was ubiquitous. Is it my job to go back and change their culture? They don't want to change. They don't see anything wrong with things like racist comments. They look down on "city folk." They think it's some kind of hilarious thing to do things like illegally modify their diesel pickup truck fuel systems in order to belch oily black clouds of soot at the flip of a switch just to harass bicyclists and drivers of EVs and hybrids. Doing utterly moronic things even at the expense of their own wallet, their own health and wellbeing to "own the libs" is a warped sport for them. Why would I want to deal with that?

Sigh.

Aren’t we glad that some people were brave enough to fight for the abolition of slavery, voting rights, civil rights, gay marriage, etc.?

It takes hard work to foster social change.

Mississippi won’t ever evolve unless people take action.

There’s a great NYT piece from decades ago about how the peace corps fails places like African communities because the best and brightest take advantage of the new school and then get the heck out of their village and move to America. Same thing. Generations of the best and brightest abandoning their people to save themselves.

Sigh all you like... but there's reality.

Contrary to popular belief that we're all "elite limousine liberals" most of us are NOT independently wealthy, most of us do NOT have unlimited time, energy and wealth to devote to changing America, most of us are just working stiffs trying to make ends meet and raise our kids. We don't have the time, means or resources to wade into areas where we are outnumbered 50,000 to one to take charge and change culture and change minds.