ACHS - conservative leaning students - afraid to speak up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally I struggle with what to think about abortion, and I would think and hope that is common given the complexities of the issues. Science, faith, psychology, sociology, politics are all intertwined in it. I work in an APS school and would not feel comfortable if my colleagues found out that I even ponder these complexities: the only acceptable opinion is to be 100%, unwaveringly pro-choice. This is somewhat true for other issues as well. I’m not a snowflake—I can stand having people disagree with me. I can’t stand committing social and career suicide. I am working hard to raise thoughtful children who can think for themselves and who can sit with ethical quandaries, because I know that they will not get that lesson from our immediate society.

You can struggle with those things. And if, in the end, you decide you think abortion is wrong then you do not ever have to get one.

You don’t get to force your religious beliefs on others though. That’s all that pro-choice means.

No one is going to force you to get an abortion.

Being against abortion isn't a religious belief. It is about understanding the science and being against the murder of a human life.

Correct. Unfortunately many people don't understand the science or prefer to ignore the science because it doesn't suit their narcissistic preferences.

So you aren’t religious and don’t speak out on abortion because of your faith views? This is honestly a first.

It is a science view. I highlighted the words because it seems like you skipped them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And this is why I am sending my kids to Catholic school.

Because a couple of snowflake conservatives fear backlash if they express reprehensible viewpoints and demand the right to do so without feedback?

Naw. I think it’s something else.

"Reprehensible viewpoints" goes both ways. This is nothing but an arrogant, self-righteous, judgmental comment. And the people who hold those "reprehensible viewpoints" clearly think the very same of yours. So let's by all means stay entrenched and keep trying to out-scream and drown-out the other instead of talking, learning, finding common ground, and allowing our children to learn and thoughtfully develop their understanding and viewpoints -- which, btw, can change with maturity and experience that ONLY comes with knowing, hearing, listening, considering other viewpoints and the why behind those viewpoints....all the things being squelched in the classroom BY BOTH SIDES (Youngkin, liberal-only APS schools).

“Trans kids are messed up and wrong and it’s immoral” is an indefensible and reprehensible viewpoint.

“Be inclusive and supportive of anyone who wants to live their lives as they want” is not.

The end.

these aren't the statements moderate or conservative leaning students are suppressing in the classroom. It doesn't take anything near that for someone to be lambasted for being a bigot or a racist - and that's why these students don't express their thoughts or pose their questions in the classroom.

And I wouldn't support someone living their life wrecklessly or in a manner that endangers others. I wouldn't support allowing mentally unstable, depressed, loners or other violent individuals living their lives of violence the way they want and shooting up innocent kids and other adults. That's reprehensible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
https://www.acpsk12.org/theogony/2021-2022/2022/05/28/students-shy-away-from-discussions-why-thats-a-problem-and-what-we-could-do-to-fix-it/

Someone asked if this was an issue in APS and there were several comments that of course it wasn't.

This is an article written in the student newspaper regarding the issue for ACHS. Given that Alexandria and Arlington are very much the same in terms of political ideology, I have no doubt the same article could be written at any of the APS high schools.

Let me sum the article up:

1) The writer erects a straw man that conservative students feel silenced or reluctant to speak up.
2) A Pew survey of classes at the school finds that the students overwhelmingly identify as liberal. Which is shocking because who knew that teenagers by and large are liberal? But it also undercuts the straw man premise in (1).
3) Some teachers are quoted saying some students are generally reluctant to talk in class. Because, you know, they are teenagers. Another shocking result!
4) No actual examples of any conservative student being silenced by anyone. Just this vague assertion that some conservative students somewhere are hiding their true feelings because of backlash.

In other words, it’s a lot of baseless whining and a trope.

Please keep in mind that this article was written by a high school student for a high school publication. By it's nature, it is not going to be an exemplary form of journalism that is researched to the nth degree. Student publications given students that change to practice journalism and highlight issues relevant to their high school experience.

Yes, I am well aware of this. I worked in journalism 30 years and was also a school newspaper adviser.

But some are holding this article up as evidence of something. It’s not. It doesn’t change the fact that the writer erected a straw man (which is a cardinal sin in journalism, although a common trope for conservative “thought leaders” and right-wing media that might be the writer’s model).

And it doesn't change the fact that you are viewing this through your 30 years of journalism and critiquing that way so missing the forest for the trees. Accept that this happens and is true. Maybe it's not the majority of students who experience this but yes, it is a small group of students who do. Is it fair then to say that the story doesn't have merit because it only effects a small group?

No, I don’t accept it. That’s the whole point of rejecting a premise.

Are there kids who feel like they can’t speak up? Sure, of course. Lots of teens lack the courage or articulation to speak up about their views. Is that because of some sort of liberal indoctrination? No, that’s not supported by any evidence. Rather, it is just a persecution fantasy of conservatives that plays out in myriad ways and is always the same complaint.

No one is suppressing conservative speech. Rejecting the ideas, maybe. Sure. That’s normal and to be expected. But the core of the complaint seems to be “I have these opinions no one else shares — why can’t I express them without having them validated?”

And it never seems to occur to them that maybe the ideas simply aren’t valid. No matter how strongly they have them.

Again, we've established nobody is directly suppressing anyone - it's an atmosphere that discourages differing views.
Also again, the trains run both ways: liberal ideas can be rejected and it never occurs to liberals that maybe some of their ideas simply aren't the best approach to something, no matter how strongly they believe themselves to be unquestionably right. I won't say they aren't "valid" because something isn't invalid just because I disagree with it.

Besides, nobody is making the complaint that they can't express their opinions without having them validated. Nobody said anything about seeking validation - it's merely about sharing, exchanging ideas, listening to others, and creating a classroom environment in which every student who would like to say something feels comfortable saying what they think, wonder, believe, question, disagree with, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, are conservative views pro-insurrection, or what? I think many have strayed from the country’s major conservative political party because of what it’s become in recent years. My family was once conservative but now more independent and unable to defend or justify many conservative policies.

+1

Depends what you mean by “conservative”.

Kids probably shouldn’t speak up if they are anti-democracy, anti-woman, or a bigot.

+2

+3 also shouldn't talk about gun collections much. If they start going off about their parent's assault rifle collection, I don't want my kid around them. Stating a political opinion is fine. But nope, don't want my kid being friends with yours if you have ARs around the house.

This whole thread is useless because the "adults" can't even focus on the real question OP posed.

To you liberals merely citing that conservatives shouldn't be spouting their anti-democracy and sexist positions or election fraud claims etc: NOT ALL MODERATE LIBERALS, INDEPEDENTS, OR REPUBLICANS HOLD THOSE POSITIONS! And OP's question doesn't ask about such positions being stifled in classroom discussions. This is the whole problem with politics and the social culture in this country today - only extremes, no nuance, no room for middle positions, no conceivable possibility that many people have different but not-that-different views on various topics, no willingness to even entertain anyone's thoughts or questions that even slightly indicate the possibility of something even a hair's width different than one's own.

FGS, teenagers are supposed to be learning and developing their personal views and opinions on issues. Establishing an environment in which free discussion takes place is critical to that. The vast majority of students are not going to declare these extreme positions you're all accusing each other of here. If legitimate discussions can't take place, then school instructional methods should change to a debate format whereby students are assigned a position and they have to advocate for it and defend it whether they agree with it or not. That's the best way to strengthen your own arguments for the position you do hold anyway.

But I don't expect any of it to happen in the classroom because supposed intelligent, educated, grown adults can't even figure it out and demonstrate it for their own kids. So y'all just go on and assume every young child 100% holds the identical extreme views of their loudmouth parents. Both sides - guilty of the exact same crap.

BUT the GOVERNOR has a TIP line so these things can’t be discussed. A CONSERVATIVE governor.
How are you not able to relate these things?

Please follow the conversation. This isn't a situation or experience new since the frickin' governor hotline. The hotline is irrelevant to the point of the article. If these topics were prohibited, there wouldn't be an issue, would there? NOBODY would be expressing viewpoints liberal, conservative, or any otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And this is why I am sending my kids to Catholic school.

Because a couple of snowflake conservatives fear backlash if they express reprehensible viewpoints and demand the right to do so without feedback?

Naw. I think it’s something else.

"Reprehensible viewpoints" goes both ways. This is nothing but an arrogant, self-righteous, judgmental comment. And the people who hold those "reprehensible viewpoints" clearly think the very same of yours. So let's by all means stay entrenched and keep trying to out-scream and drown-out the other instead of talking, learning, finding common ground, and allowing our children to learn and thoughtfully develop their understanding and viewpoints -- which, btw, can change with maturity and experience that ONLY comes with knowing, hearing, listening, considering other viewpoints and the why behind those viewpoints....all the things being squelched in the classroom BY BOTH SIDES (Youngkin, liberal-only APS schools).

“Trans kids are messed up and wrong and it’s immoral” is an indefensible and reprehensible viewpoint.

“Be inclusive and supportive of anyone who wants to live their lives as they want” is not.

The end.

DP weighing in.

I strongly disagree with the first sentence about trans kids that you have made up; however, I am mature enough to recognize that it is not indefensible and it is not reprehensible to some members of our population. Your (and my) belief systems don't trump theirs.

Just as I recognize that your totality "be inclusive" statement is completely wrong, and absolutely indefensible and reprehensible. It is saying that people should be inclusive of and supportive of people like Hitler or bin Laden.

You need to learn to respect the viewpoints of others. You also need to learn critical thinking skills. You need to stay in school, study hard and pay attention to what is going on around you. You never know, you actually might learn something.

+1
I'm liberal; but my biggest beef with extreme liberals is their profession of inclusivity and acceptance of all - because they are completely intolerant of anyone who does not absolutely agree with them on every issue. It's just as hypocritical as they accuse their counterparts as being. They have no tolerance of anyone that isn't on the same point of the liberal spectrum - such as a liberal Democrat who disagrees that women should have the right to have an abortion at any point during their pregnancy for any reason. If you support only abortions in the cases of rape and incest and/or before the detection of a heartbeat - you are not welcome, you are wrong, you are not accepted in the Party. You can be as liberal as liberal can get on every other issue; but a discrepancy like that means you're a whacko Republican.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally I struggle with what to think about abortion, and I would think and hope that is common given the complexities of the issues. Science, faith, psychology, sociology, politics are all intertwined in it. I work in an APS school and would not feel comfortable if my colleagues found out that I even ponder these complexities: the only acceptable opinion is to be 100%, unwaveringly pro-choice. This is somewhat true for other issues as well. I’m not a snowflake—I can stand having people disagree with me. I can’t stand committing social and career suicide. I am working hard to raise thoughtful children who can think for themselves and who can sit with ethical quandaries, because I know that they will not get that lesson from our immediate society.

You can struggle with those things. And if, in the end, you decide you think abortion is wrong then you do not ever have to get one.

You don’t get to force your religious beliefs on others though. That’s all that pro-choice means.

No one is going to force you to get an abortion.

Being against abortion isn't a religious belief. It is about understanding the science and being against the murder of a human life.

Correct. Unfortunately many people don't understand the science or prefer to ignore the science because it doesn't suit their narcissistic preferences.

So you aren’t religious and don’t speak out on abortion because of your faith views? This is honestly a first.

It is a science view. I highlighted the words because it seems like you skipped them.

So no religious aspect whatsoever to your views? What’s your particular background in science? I’ve just never heard of someone completely against abortion on the basis of science alone. Does your version of science support forcing a women to continue an ectopic pregnancy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally I struggle with what to think about abortion, and I would think and hope that is common given the complexities of the issues. Science, faith, psychology, sociology, politics are all intertwined in it. I work in an APS school and would not feel comfortable if my colleagues found out that I even ponder these complexities: the only acceptable opinion is to be 100%, unwaveringly pro-choice. This is somewhat true for other issues as well. I’m not a snowflake—I can stand having people disagree with me. I can’t stand committing social and career suicide. I am working hard to raise thoughtful children who can think for themselves and who can sit with ethical quandaries, because I know that they will not get that lesson from our immediate society.

You can struggle with those things. And if, in the end, you decide you think abortion is wrong then you do not ever have to get one.

You don’t get to force your religious beliefs on others though. That’s all that pro-choice means.

No one is going to force you to get an abortion.

Being against abortion isn't a religious belief. It is about understanding the science and being against the murder of a human life.

Correct. Unfortunately many people don't understand the science or prefer to ignore the science because it doesn't suit their narcissistic preferences.

So you aren’t religious and don’t speak out on abortion because of your faith views? This is honestly a first.

It is a science view. I highlighted the words because it seems like you skipped them.

So no religious aspect whatsoever to your views? What’s your particular background in science? I’ve just never heard of someone completely against abortion on the basis of science alone. Does your version of science support forcing a women to continue an ectopic pregnancy?

I won't speak for the PP you're asking the question of, but most people support ending pregnancies that endanger the life of the mother, as well as in instances of rape and incest - and I'm confident you already know that. I've never heard anyone argue for mandating the continuation of ectopic pregnancies - except maybe once recently from one of the bombastic Republican idiots trying to gain attention.

My question to you, however, is why you're hung-up on the need for a religious basis to oppose abortion? Do you really think it is not possible to value and respect human life without being religious?! Why can't someone appreciate the beginning stages of human life as one of several developmental stages of human life from beginning through adulthood 'til the end?

Not that this has anything to do with the original post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And this is why I am sending my kids to Catholic school.

Because a couple of snowflake conservatives fear backlash if they express reprehensible viewpoints and demand the right to do so without feedback?

Naw. I think it’s something else.

"Reprehensible viewpoints" goes both ways. This is nothing but an arrogant, self-righteous, judgmental comment. And the people who hold those "reprehensible viewpoints" clearly think the very same of yours. So let's by all means stay entrenched and keep trying to out-scream and drown-out the other instead of talking, learning, finding common ground, and allowing our children to learn and thoughtfully develop their understanding and viewpoints -- which, btw, can change with maturity and experience that ONLY comes with knowing, hearing, listening, considering other viewpoints and the why behind those viewpoints....all the things being squelched in the classroom BY BOTH SIDES (Youngkin, liberal-only APS schools).

“Trans kids are messed up and wrong and it’s immoral” is an indefensible and reprehensible viewpoint.

“Be inclusive and supportive of anyone who wants to live their lives as they want” is not.

The end.

DP weighing in.

I strongly disagree with the first sentence about trans kids that you have made up; however, I am mature enough to recognize that it is not indefensible and it is not reprehensible to some members of our population. Your (and my) belief systems don't trump theirs.

Just as I recognize that your totality "be inclusive" statement is completely wrong, and absolutely indefensible and reprehensible. It is saying that people should be inclusive of and supportive of people like Hitler or bin Laden.

You need to learn to respect the viewpoints of others. You also need to learn critical thinking skills. You need to stay in school, study hard and pay attention to what is going on around you. You never know, you actually might learn something.

+1
I'm liberal; but my biggest beef with extreme liberals is their profession of inclusivity and acceptance of all - because they are completely intolerant of anyone who does not absolutely agree with them on every issue. It's just as hypocritical as they accuse their counterparts as being. They have no tolerance of anyone that isn't on the same point of the liberal spectrum - such as a liberal Democrat who disagrees that women should have the right to have an abortion at any point during their pregnancy for any reason. If you support only abortions in the cases of rape and incest and/or before the detection of a heartbeat - you are not welcome, you are wrong, you are not accepted in the Party. You can be as liberal as liberal can get on every other issue; but a discrepancy like that means you're a whacko Republican.

+2 Well said and I agree with both of the two PPs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally I struggle with what to think about abortion, and I would think and hope that is common given the complexities of the issues. Science, faith, psychology, sociology, politics are all intertwined in it. I work in an APS school and would not feel comfortable if my colleagues found out that I even ponder these complexities: the only acceptable opinion is to be 100%, unwaveringly pro-choice. This is somewhat true for other issues as well. I’m not a snowflake—I can stand having people disagree with me. I can’t stand committing social and career suicide. I am working hard to raise thoughtful children who can think for themselves and who can sit with ethical quandaries, because I know that they will not get that lesson from our immediate society.

You can struggle with those things. And if, in the end, you decide you think abortion is wrong then you do not ever have to get one.

You don’t get to force your religious beliefs on others though. That’s all that pro-choice means.

No one is going to force you to get an abortion.

Being against abortion isn't a religious belief. It is about understanding the science and being against the murder of a human life.

Correct. Unfortunately many people don't understand the science or prefer to ignore the science because it doesn't suit their narcissistic preferences.

So you aren’t religious and don’t speak out on abortion because of your faith views? This is honestly a first.

It is a science view. I highlighted the words because it seems like you skipped them.

So no religious aspect whatsoever to your views? What’s your particular background in science? I’ve just never heard of someone completely against abortion on the basis of science alone. Does your version of science support forcing a women to continue an ectopic pregnancy?

I won't speak for the PP you're asking the question of, but most people support ending pregnancies that endanger the life of the mother, as well as in instances of rape and incest - and I'm confident you already know that. I've never heard anyone argue for mandating the continuation of ectopic pregnancies - except maybe once recently from one of the bombastic Republican idiots trying to gain attention.

My question to you, however, is why you're hung-up on the need for a religious basis to oppose abortion? Do you really think it is not possible to value and respect human life without being religious?! Why can't someone appreciate the beginning stages of human life as one of several developmental stages of human life from beginning through adulthood 'til the end?

Not that this has anything to do with the original post.

+1 Another well written post stating a lot of my same thoughts and questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
https://www.acpsk12.org/theogony/2021-2022/2022/05/28/students-shy-away-from-discussions-why-thats-a-problem-and-what-we-could-do-to-fix-it/

Someone asked if this was an issue in APS and there were several comments that of course it wasn't.

This is an article written in the student newspaper regarding the issue for ACHS. Given that Alexandria and Arlington are very much the same in terms of political ideology, I have no doubt the same article could be written at any of the APS high schools.

Let me sum the article up:

1) The writer erects a straw man that conservative students feel silenced or reluctant to speak up.
2) A Pew survey of classes at the school finds that the students overwhelmingly identify as liberal. Which is shocking because who knew that teenagers by and large are liberal? But it also undercuts the straw man premise in (1).
3) Some teachers are quoted saying some students are generally reluctant to talk in class. Because, you know, they are teenagers. Another shocking result!
4) No actual examples of any conservative student being silenced by anyone. Just this vague assertion that some conservative students somewhere are hiding their true feelings because of backlash.

In other words, it’s a lot of baseless whining and a trope.

Please keep in mind that this article was written by a high school student for a high school publication. By it's nature, it is not going to be an exemplary form of journalism that is researched to the nth degree. Student publications given students that change to practice journalism and highlight issues relevant to their high school experience.

Yes, I am well aware of this. I worked in journalism 30 years and was also a school newspaper adviser.

But some are holding this article up as evidence of something. It’s not. It doesn’t change the fact that the writer erected a straw man (which is a cardinal sin in journalism, although a common trope for conservative “thought leaders” and right-wing media that might be the writer’s model).

And it doesn't change the fact that you are viewing this through your 30 years of journalism and critiquing that way so missing the forest for the trees. Accept that this happens and is true. Maybe it's not the majority of students who experience this but yes, it is a small group of students who do. Is it fair then to say that the story doesn't have merit because it only effects a small group?

No, I don’t accept it. That’s the whole point of rejecting a premise.

Are there kids who feel like they can’t speak up? Sure, of course. Lots of teens lack the courage or articulation to speak up about their views. Is that because of some sort of liberal indoctrination? No, that’s not supported by any evidence. Rather, it is just a persecution fantasy of conservatives that plays out in myriad ways and is always the same complaint.

No one is suppressing conservative speech. Rejecting the ideas, maybe. Sure. That’s normal and to be expected. But the core of the complaint seems to be “I have these opinions no one else shares — why can’t I express them without having them validated?”

And it never seems to occur to them that maybe the ideas simply aren’t valid. No matter how strongly they have them.

And it never seems to occur to you that maybe your ideas are simply not valid. No matter how strongly you have them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And this is why I am sending my kids to Catholic school.

Because a couple of snowflake conservatives fear backlash if they express reprehensible viewpoints and demand the right to do so without feedback?

Naw. I think it’s something else.

"Reprehensible viewpoints" goes both ways. This is nothing but an arrogant, self-righteous, judgmental comment. And the people who hold those "reprehensible viewpoints" clearly think the very same of yours. So let's by all means stay entrenched and keep trying to out-scream and drown-out the other instead of talking, learning, finding common ground, and allowing our children to learn and thoughtfully develop their understanding and viewpoints -- which, btw, can change with maturity and experience that ONLY comes with knowing, hearing, listening, considering other viewpoints and the why behind those viewpoints....all the things being squelched in the classroom BY BOTH SIDES (Youngkin, liberal-only APS schools).

“Trans kids are messed up and wrong and it’s immoral” is an indefensible and reprehensible viewpoint.

“Be inclusive and supportive of anyone who wants to live their lives as they want” is not.

The end.

DP weighing in.

I strongly disagree with the first sentence about trans kids that you have made up; however, I am mature enough to recognize that it is not indefensible and it is not reprehensible to some members of our population. Your (and my) belief systems don't trump theirs.

Just as I recognize that your totality "be inclusive" statement is completely wrong, and absolutely indefensible and reprehensible. It is saying that people should be inclusive of and supportive of people like Hitler or bin Laden.

You need to learn to respect the viewpoints of others. You also need to learn critical thinking skills. You need to stay in school, study hard and pay attention to what is going on around you. You never know, you actually might learn something.

Yes, my belief system trumps theirs. Or course it does. Just stop with the moral relativism already — not all ideas are valid or have to be indulged or tolerated. Especially those that are rooted in hatred of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And this is why I am sending my kids to Catholic school.

Because a couple of snowflake conservatives fear backlash if they express reprehensible viewpoints and demand the right to do so without feedback?

Naw. I think it’s something else.

"Reprehensible viewpoints" goes both ways. This is nothing but an arrogant, self-righteous, judgmental comment. And the people who hold those "reprehensible viewpoints" clearly think the very same of yours. So let's by all means stay entrenched and keep trying to out-scream and drown-out the other instead of talking, learning, finding common ground, and allowing our children to learn and thoughtfully develop their understanding and viewpoints -- which, btw, can change with maturity and experience that ONLY comes with knowing, hearing, listening, considering other viewpoints and the why behind those viewpoints....all the things being squelched in the classroom BY BOTH SIDES (Youngkin, liberal-only APS schools).

“Trans kids are messed up and wrong and it’s immoral” is an indefensible and reprehensible viewpoint.

“Be inclusive and supportive of anyone who wants to live their lives as they want” is not.

The end.

these aren't the statements moderate or conservative leaning students are suppressing in the classroom. It doesn't take anything near that for someone to be lambasted for being a bigot or a racist - and that's why these students don't express their thoughts or pose their questions in the classroom.

And I wouldn't support someone living their life wrecklessly or in a manner that endangers others. I wouldn't support allowing mentally unstable, depressed, loners or other violent individuals living their lives of violence the way they want and shooting up innocent kids and other adults. That's reprehensible.

You are double speaking. You’re saying they are expressing less extreme viewpoints and then saying they don’t talk.

Choose one.

Either way, the premise isn’t supported. And conservative speech is not suppressed. On the contrary, it’s amplified everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And this is why I am sending my kids to Catholic school.

Because a couple of snowflake conservatives fear backlash if they express reprehensible viewpoints and demand the right to do so without feedback?

Naw. I think it’s something else.

"Reprehensible viewpoints" goes both ways. This is nothing but an arrogant, self-righteous, judgmental comment. And the people who hold those "reprehensible viewpoints" clearly think the very same of yours. So let's by all means stay entrenched and keep trying to out-scream and drown-out the other instead of talking, learning, finding common ground, and allowing our children to learn and thoughtfully develop their understanding and viewpoints -- which, btw, can change with maturity and experience that ONLY comes with knowing, hearing, listening, considering other viewpoints and the why behind those viewpoints....all the things being squelched in the classroom BY BOTH SIDES (Youngkin, liberal-only APS schools).

“Trans kids are messed up and wrong and it’s immoral” is an indefensible and reprehensible viewpoint.

“Be inclusive and supportive of anyone who wants to live their lives as they want” is not.

The end.

DP weighing in.

I strongly disagree with the first sentence about trans kids that you have made up; however, I am mature enough to recognize that it is not indefensible and it is not reprehensible to some members of our population. Your (and my) belief systems don't trump theirs.

Just as I recognize that your totality "be inclusive" statement is completely wrong, and absolutely indefensible and reprehensible. It is saying that people should be inclusive of and supportive of people like Hitler or bin Laden.

You need to learn to respect the viewpoints of others. You also need to learn critical thinking skills. You need to stay in school, study hard and pay attention to what is going on around you. You never know, you actually might learn something.

+1
I'm liberal; but my biggest beef with extreme liberals is their profession of inclusivity and acceptance of all - because they are completely intolerant of anyone who does not absolutely agree with them on every issue. It's just as hypocritical as they accuse their counterparts as being. They have no tolerance of anyone that isn't on the same point of the liberal spectrum - such as a liberal Democrat who disagrees that women should have the right to have an abortion at any point during their pregnancy for any reason. If you support only abortions in the cases of rape and incest and/or before the detection of a heartbeat - you are not welcome, you are wrong, you are not accepted in the Party. You can be as liberal as liberal can get on every other issue; but a discrepancy like that means you're a whacko Republican.

Really? You are trotting out the “why won’t you tolerate my intolerance?” trope? That’s lame and unoriginal.

[Anonymous]

Bring back the talking stick. Let everyone express their opinions without being interrupted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
https://www.acpsk12.org/theogony/2021-2022/2022/05/28/students-shy-away-from-discussions-why-thats-a-problem-and-what-we-could-do-to-fix-it/

Someone asked if this was an issue in APS and there were several comments that of course it wasn't.

This is an article written in the student newspaper regarding the issue for ACHS. Given that Alexandria and Arlington are very much the same in terms of political ideology, I have no doubt the same article could be written at any of the APS high schools.

Let me sum the article up:

1) The writer erects a straw man that conservative students feel silenced or reluctant to speak up.
2) A Pew survey of classes at the school finds that the students overwhelmingly identify as liberal. Which is shocking because who knew that teenagers by and large are liberal? But it also undercuts the straw man premise in (1).
3) Some teachers are quoted saying some students are generally reluctant to talk in class. Because, you know, they are teenagers. Another shocking result!
4) No actual examples of any conservative student being silenced by anyone. Just this vague assertion that some conservative students somewhere are hiding their true feelings because of backlash.

In other words, it’s a lot of baseless whining and a trope.

Please keep in mind that this article was written by a high school student for a high school publication. By it's nature, it is not going to be an exemplary form of journalism that is researched to the nth degree. Student publications given students that change to practice journalism and highlight issues relevant to their high school experience.

Yes, I am well aware of this. I worked in journalism 30 years and was also a school newspaper adviser.

But some are holding this article up as evidence of something. It’s not. It doesn’t change the fact that the writer erected a straw man (which is a cardinal sin in journalism, although a common trope for conservative “thought leaders” and right-wing media that might be the writer’s model).

And it doesn't change the fact that you are viewing this through your 30 years of journalism and critiquing that way so missing the forest for the trees. Accept that this happens and is true. Maybe it's not the majority of students who experience this but yes, it is a small group of students who do. Is it fair then to say that the story doesn't have merit because it only effects a small group?

No, I don’t accept it. That’s the whole point of rejecting a premise.

Are there kids who feel like they can’t speak up? Sure, of course. Lots of teens lack the courage or articulation to speak up about their views. Is that because of some sort of liberal indoctrination? No, that’s not supported by any evidence. Rather, it is just a persecution fantasy of conservatives that plays out in myriad ways and is always the same complaint.

No one is suppressing conservative speech. Rejecting the ideas, maybe. Sure. That’s normal and to be expected. But the core of the complaint seems to be “I have these opinions no one else shares — why can’t I express them without having them validated?”

And it never seems to occur to them that maybe the ideas simply aren’t valid. No matter how strongly they have them.

And it never seems to occur to you that maybe your ideas are simply not valid. No matter how strongly you have them.

Because they are not just valid, they are 100% correct. Objectively. It isn’t even up for discussion.

I will have a good faith conversation all day with you about taxes and regulation and the size of the military. We can even agree to disagree on some things and I will respect your views there. But the minute you go into alternate realities about Trump won the election, nonsense about CRT being in schools (or even that it being in schools would be a bad thing), the evils of immigrants or banning books in schools or whatever else Fox News has brainwashed you with, you are dismissed. We aren’t even on the same playing field.

That’s the problem with conservatives these days — they are so very angry, believe in fantasies and myths and imaginary problems, and scream and yell loudly about things that really don’t matter or are grossly exaggerated “problems.” But mostly conservatives operate in that echo chamber and can’t think critically about their own extreme beliefs and have a tendency to act in bad faith when interacting with liberals. (See the emphasis on “owning a lib” for an obvious example.)

But none of this exists in schools. If a small minority of students identify as conservative but are too timid to discuss their views because of “the environment” then that’s really just their problem. No one has any obligation to make a safe space for them to articulate viewpoints that will offend others. Just because they were raised by hateful parents and have backwards views on cultural issues does not mean they get to feel comfortable about having them.