ACHS - conservative leaning students - afraid to speak up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
https://www.acpsk12.org/theogony/2021-2022/2022/05/28/students-shy-away-from-discussions-why-thats-a-problem-and-what-we-could-do-to-fix-it/

Someone asked if this was an issue in APS and there were several comments that of course it wasn't.

This is an article written in the student newspaper regarding the issue for ACHS. Given that Alexandria and Arlington are very much the same in terms of political ideology, I have no doubt the same article could be written at any of the APS high schools.

I, for one, am sick of the poor silenced and persecuted conservative trope.

If you fear backlash for saying something others find offensive, you are the problem. It doesn’t mean your views are valid or truth. This is how the marketplace of ideas work.

In other words, the most liberal view is right and therefore anyone with a different opinion about government regulation, taxes, local government authority, zoning policies, housing policies, traffic management and incentives in relation to environmental concerns, social programs, education policy, public budget priorities or fiscal management, etc. etc. etc., is "the problem" and is "offensive" and shouldn't shrink from personal attacks and criticisms from the "always-right-never-wrong" far liberal. It just isn't possible for a liberal to say anything offensive or to extend misguided moral judgment on someone else. Someone being offended by one's remarks means the one making the remark is invalid and untruthful - because we all know there are no overly sensitive people who will find offense in just about anything and people's comments are never taken out of context or misconstrued.

(I'm a liberal - so nope, not a persecuted conservative trope - but disgusted by the attitude and comments of PP and most others on this thread)

Except it isn’t discussions about taxes and regulations and traffic management that are triggering these imaginary reactions. These are not the viewpoints that conservatives supposedly feel reluctant to express, and you know that full well. No, it’s the culture war views — they want to be able to say gay marriage is evil, blacks should just get over racism already, election fraud is rampant and orchestrated against Republicans and transgender children should be treated with disdain. That’s what they’re “afraid” to say. Because they know deep down that their views are not shared by the vast majority of reasonable people. People with fringe viewpoints are always somewhat reluctant to draw attention to themselves.

But it’s cute that you think this is about taxes and the size of the military and whatnot.

Those fringe-view holding people have become rather emboldened. A teen holding those views with the sense of "evil" and wishing others to be treated with "disdain" likely are very strong in their position and not so likely to hold back out of fear. So, no, I don't believe these are the statements students in the article want to say.

Speaking from personal experience - as a clear liberal - it doesn't take much at all to be accused of being racist. Just support affordable housing all over the city rather than concentrated in one area; or use yesterday's politically-correct term instead of today's politically-correct term; or suggest that the academic rigor in a high FARMS elementary school is not the same as the academic rigor in a wealthy white school; or say you think SROs should not be removed from schools; or complain about the negative impacts of proposed "equitable" grading systems or "no homework" policies; or support a dress code in school; or tell a school board member you want them to support the school boundary change that does not increase the poverty at an already high-poverty school; or pushback against yet another affordable housing high-rise in your neighborhood.

The person with the extreme views knows they are in drastic opposition to the liberal views of their classroom, probably know they're racist, are already known to hold those views, and are either willing to be provocative or don't care enough to get into it with the rest of the class. But those with more nuanced differences - they have good reason to be more hesitant or cautious to participate in a discussion and get inaccurately labeled, or just have to defend their position solo while 20 others have each other to form the argument for their common stance. Why tread into that water unnecessarily?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"
Are you kidding me? If you are allowed to speak then they need to be allowed to speak. That's the way it works in a democracy with a constitution like ours that protects freedom of speech."

Sigh. You don't understand freedom of speech.

+1

Everyone can speak. And everyone can face the consequences of their words.

And the consequences for perceived thought crimes are for students (and teachers?) to alienate and ostracize a fellow student? In the context of broader society, I imagine businesses will soon put up signs that they only serve democrats (or republicans).

This fear of alienation and ostracism is largely imaginary. In cases where it might happen, the speech must have been so heinous (expression of racism or bigotry) so as to invite that reaction. No one is alienated by someone advocating for lower taxes or a stronger military. It might be pointed out the two concepts are mutually exclusive goals, but this notion that you can’t articulate those type of traditionally conservative perspectives without being ostracized is ridiculous. No, it’s the weird resentment about feeling like you can’t push back on policies that are inclusive for transgender students or racist policing.

I disagree. From reading this thread, warning someone that “free speech doesn’t mean free of consequences” is a palpable threat to “watch what you say or you’ll be ostracized?” A student articulating even sympathy toward a pro-life position can be expected to be labeled (sorry-publicly “called out”) as an anti-woman bigot (even if they are a woman).

It’s not a threat. It’s a logical consequence.

And, yes, anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman. There are plenty of women who are judging other women and trying to push their religious beliefs on everyone else.

Ok. That clarifies things. I get it. Schools function as churches for Democrats. Conservatives can attend, but they should be silent as to their beliefs, just like a pro-choice individual can attend a traditional church provided they keep that opinion to themselves. Vocally contravening the norm “logically” results in alienation — the heretic simply doesn’t fit in. The threat of being ostracized is a tool of indoctrination. I suspect the indoctrination does more harm than good in both venues and need to go process my own thoughts on this.

No, schools are where kids go to learn facts and how to be a good citizen.

Not to learn outdated myths.

" anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman" is not a fact, it's an opinion.

BS. If you want to dictate a woman's reproductive choices, you are antiwoman.

Baloney. I am a woman who knows that it is immoral and wrong for a woman to have an abortion because an abortion is the murder of an innocent baby. I'm not antiwoman, I'm antimurder of babies.

+1

Then you don't have an abortion. I will do what I want when I want. You have zero right to tell others what to do.

I am worth mte than a clump of cells. You probably aren't though.

Have you ever thanked your mother that SHE didn't have an abortion when she was pregnant with you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"
Are you kidding me? If you are allowed to speak then they need to be allowed to speak. That's the way it works in a democracy with a constitution like ours that protects freedom of speech."

Sigh. You don't understand freedom of speech.

+1

Everyone can speak. And everyone can face the consequences of their words.

And the consequences for perceived thought crimes are for students (and teachers?) to alienate and ostracize a fellow student? In the context of broader society, I imagine businesses will soon put up signs that they only serve democrats (or republicans).

This fear of alienation and ostracism is largely imaginary. In cases where it might happen, the speech must have been so heinous (expression of racism or bigotry) so as to invite that reaction. No one is alienated by someone advocating for lower taxes or a stronger military. It might be pointed out the two concepts are mutually exclusive goals, but this notion that you can’t articulate those type of traditionally conservative perspectives without being ostracized is ridiculous. No, it’s the weird resentment about feeling like you can’t push back on policies that are inclusive for transgender students or racist policing.

I disagree. From reading this thread, warning someone that “free speech doesn’t mean free of consequences” is a palpable threat to “watch what you say or you’ll be ostracized?” A student articulating even sympathy toward a pro-life position can be expected to be labeled (sorry-publicly “called out”) as an anti-woman bigot (even if they are a woman).

It’s not a threat. It’s a logical consequence.

And, yes, anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman. There are plenty of women who are judging other women and trying to push their religious beliefs on everyone else.

Ok. That clarifies things. I get it. Schools function as churches for Democrats. Conservatives can attend, but they should be silent as to their beliefs, just like a pro-choice individual can attend a traditional church provided they keep that opinion to themselves. Vocally contravening the norm “logically” results in alienation — the heretic simply doesn’t fit in. The threat of being ostracized is a tool of indoctrination. I suspect the indoctrination does more harm than good in both venues and need to go process my own thoughts on this.

No, schools are where kids go to learn facts and how to be a good citizen.

Not to learn outdated myths.

" anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman" is not a fact, it's an opinion.

BS. If you want to dictate a woman's reproductive choices, you are antiwoman.

Baloney. I am a woman who knows that it is immoral and wrong for a woman to have an abortion because an abortion is the murder of an innocent baby. I'm not antiwoman, I'm antimurder of babies.

m

Here you go again. Should a woman be forced to carry an ectopic pregnancy because that cluster of cells that will most likely kill her are a “baby” in your mind?

DP - And here you go again. You've already tried asking that question. It's already been answered - by me, with an agreement from another. Just who is advancing the banner for forced ectopic pregnancies to their natural end?
Talk about straw man diversions. Next.

As we speak, states like Oklahoma are passing abortion bans without exceptions for the life of the mother. The consequences of “pro-life” positions is inevitably that women will die due to limited reproductive choices.

More hypocrisy from Republicans: ok to kill babies conceived by incest or rape; but not to protect the life of the mother.
I'd like to hear a more detailed report of the Oklahoma bill and reactions to it. Even if it does not allow for exceptions for the life of the mother, that is one State trying to be "more pro-life" than everyone else. And it remains to be seen if it will remain that restrictive - or if it will do so without political repercussions.

Truly "pro life" positions actually extend beyond pregnancy. Republican "pro life" politicians are only concerned with abortion; so it is inaccurate to consider most of these legislation moves actually "pro life" - where's the corresponding euthanasia legislation? Oklahoma sure ain't eliminating capital punishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"
Are you kidding me? If you are allowed to speak then they need to be allowed to speak. That's the way it works in a democracy with a constitution like ours that protects freedom of speech."

Sigh. You don't understand freedom of speech.

+1

Everyone can speak. And everyone can face the consequences of their words.

And the consequences for perceived thought crimes are for students (and teachers?) to alienate and ostracize a fellow student? In the context of broader society, I imagine businesses will soon put up signs that they only serve democrats (or republicans).

This fear of alienation and ostracism is largely imaginary. In cases where it might happen, the speech must have been so heinous (expression of racism or bigotry) so as to invite that reaction. No one is alienated by someone advocating for lower taxes or a stronger military. It might be pointed out the two concepts are mutually exclusive goals, but this notion that you can’t articulate those type of traditionally conservative perspectives without being ostracized is ridiculous. No, it’s the weird resentment about feeling like you can’t push back on policies that are inclusive for transgender students or racist policing.

I disagree. From reading this thread, warning someone that “free speech doesn’t mean free of consequences” is a palpable threat to “watch what you say or you’ll be ostracized?” A student articulating even sympathy toward a pro-life position can be expected to be labeled (sorry-publicly “called out”) as an anti-woman bigot (even if they are a woman).

It’s not a threat. It’s a logical consequence.

And, yes, anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman. There are plenty of women who are judging other women and trying to push their religious beliefs on everyone else.

Ok. That clarifies things. I get it. Schools function as churches for Democrats. Conservatives can attend, but they should be silent as to their beliefs, just like a pro-choice individual can attend a traditional church provided they keep that opinion to themselves. Vocally contravening the norm “logically” results in alienation — the heretic simply doesn’t fit in. The threat of being ostracized is a tool of indoctrination. I suspect the indoctrination does more harm than good in both venues and need to go process my own thoughts on this.

No, schools are where kids go to learn facts and how to be a good citizen.

Not to learn outdated myths.

" anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman" is not a fact, it's an opinion.

BS. If you want to dictate a woman's reproductive choices, you are antiwoman.

Baloney. I am a woman who knows that it is immoral and wrong for a woman to have an abortion because an abortion is the murder of an innocent baby. I'm not antiwoman, I'm antimurder of babies.

+1

Then you don't have an abortion. I will do what I want when I want. You have zero right to tell others what to do.

I am worth mte than a clump of cells. You probably aren't though.

No one's telling you what to do.
And any teen who might want to share that they believe abortion is wrong also is not telling you what to do. A student in a class discussion stating support for or against the overturning of Roe v Wade also isn't telling you what to do - they're just participating in a class discussion (which this post is supposed to be about!)
You shouldn't tell me that I have to support abortions with my taxes if I believe abortion is wrong.
You shouldn't get to tell a hospital it has to provide abortion services to receive federal funding if the hospital is morally opposed to abortion.
Should every state ban legal abortions, they aren't telling you what to do - they are limiting your access to options. You're still free to have an abortion - just not so easily or safely. Killing a bunch of kids and their teachers is illegal - but people remain free to do it. And no, Republicans shamefully aren't taking their guns away. Shoplifting is illegal - but people are free to do it. It's just that actions and decisions have consequences, some greater than others; and a lot of women/parents/controlling males don't want to take responsibility for the consequences of having consensual sex.

You were a clump of cells once. Fortunately for you, you were already worth more than that clump of cells to the woman who did not end your development prematurely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"
Are you kidding me? If you are allowed to speak then they need to be allowed to speak. That's the way it works in a democracy with a constitution like ours that protects freedom of speech."

Sigh. You don't understand freedom of speech.

+1

Everyone can speak. And everyone can face the consequences of their words.

And the consequences for perceived thought crimes are for students (and teachers?) to alienate and ostracize a fellow student? In the context of broader society, I imagine businesses will soon put up signs that they only serve democrats (or republicans).

This fear of alienation and ostracism is largely imaginary. In cases where it might happen, the speech must have been so heinous (expression of racism or bigotry) so as to invite that reaction. No one is alienated by someone advocating for lower taxes or a stronger military. It might be pointed out the two concepts are mutually exclusive goals, but this notion that you can’t articulate those type of traditionally conservative perspectives without being ostracized is ridiculous. No, it’s the weird resentment about feeling like you can’t push back on policies that are inclusive for transgender students or racist policing.

I disagree. From reading this thread, warning someone that “free speech doesn’t mean free of consequences” is a palpable threat to “watch what you say or you’ll be ostracized?” A student articulating even sympathy toward a pro-life position can be expected to be labeled (sorry-publicly “called out”) as an anti-woman bigot (even if they are a woman).

It’s not a threat. It’s a logical consequence.

And, yes, anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman. There are plenty of women who are judging other women and trying to push their religious beliefs on everyone else.

Ok. That clarifies things. I get it. Schools function as churches for Democrats. Conservatives can attend, but they should be silent as to their beliefs, just like a pro-choice individual can attend a traditional church provided they keep that opinion to themselves. Vocally contravening the norm “logically” results in alienation — the heretic simply doesn’t fit in. The threat of being ostracized is a tool of indoctrination. I suspect the indoctrination does more harm than good in both venues and need to go process my own thoughts on this.

No. Honey, enough with the persecution complex. No one is saying conservatives “should” remain silent in schools. Again, these are choices teens are making for themselves. They absolutely can speak and are likely encouraged to by their teachers.

And this bizarre lens you see school through is just not supported by the facts. There is no “indoctrination” here unless you find messages of tolerance to be offensive (And don’t start on the whole “why won’t you tolerate my intolerance” bs). You seem to have this fantasy that school days are filled with sermons praising Joe Biden and demonizing Trump or something. That isn’t what happens. Once again, conservatives are so fearful of things they imagine are happening. My guess is this is a side effect of the tribal mindset so many of you retreat into, which also feeds that persecution complex because you sense, rightly, that you are wildly out of step with mainstream values and thinking.

The reality is discussions of any current events are rare. Students spend their days learning math, doing labs in science, reading and writing. It’s like you think there are endless assemblies designed to impart liberal ideologies and talking points into them. This isn’t actually a thing.

How long has it been since you've been a student in high school?

I have two of the currently. The only thing I have heard of that comes close to this is a homeroom teacher prattling on about how inflation and high gas prices are Biden’s fault. DD just rolls her eyes. We did report him to the tip line though.

That wasn't the question.

Regardless, your not hearing of anything from your two kids doesn't mean other conversations aren't happening in other classrooms. I have two high schoolers as well. One would be considered "conservative." The shool is overwhelmingly liberal with no conservative clubs, including a Republican club or even an independents club. My conservative child has commented about several teachers who "clearly agree with everyone else in the class;" who have "political" statements posted in their classroom or on their desk despite a no-political sign policy - same in hallways throughout the building; teachers ranting on about political topics that have absolutely nothing to do with the class subject matter; etc.

Just as your DD rolls her eyes, my child has learned to do the same and stay quiet. The outrageousness of most of the posts in this thread aside, and back directly to OP's post and the article, this isn't out of "fear" or "intimidation." It's out of a sense of futility; a desire to avoid repeating past experiences of their words being misconstrued and getting into pointless debates that aren't even on the point they made (like much of the thread here); and not wanting to again get a lecture from the teacher about them needing to understand others' views (yet not the other way around). I've spoken with the teachers when these situations occurred, and even the teacher confirms that my child was not speaking in a disrespectful manner or saying anything so outlandishly offensive like some keep focusing on in this thread.

These discussions do occur in a variety of classes: government classes, history classes, English classes (literature tends to cover a wide range of themes, especially today when the students have to read assigned novels that cover current social themes and historical discrimination etc.; and writing assignments in various classes are frequently "position" or "persuasive" essays using current social topics), film studies classes, and even in little chit-chat in down moments for whatever reasons - likely because of the reason for the latest student walk-out (I've lost count of how many walk-outs and causes there have been just this year alone; but they are always liberal causes), or just hot topics in current news - of which Roe v Wade and its possible overturn is very much front and center. So yes, these things do come up. And you're likely to hear about them from your kid only when your kid (1) has a different view or (2) is just sick of everything in school being "political" all the time. If you don't think there wasn't a lot of talk and tying-in topics to Black Lives Matter after George Floyd, you definitely are out of touch. Or your child's school is remarkably civically un-engaged.

I know full well there was that talk and i support it. Frankly, I don’t care at all that it makes your conservative kid uncomfortable. Good. Cognitive dissonance is good for him

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"
Are you kidding me? If you are allowed to speak then they need to be allowed to speak. That's the way it works in a democracy with a constitution like ours that protects freedom of speech."

Sigh. You don't understand freedom of speech.

+1

Everyone can speak. And everyone can face the consequences of their words.

And the consequences for perceived thought crimes are for students (and teachers?) to alienate and ostracize a fellow student? In the context of broader society, I imagine businesses will soon put up signs that they only serve democrats (or republicans).

This fear of alienation and ostracism is largely imaginary. In cases where it might happen, the speech must have been so heinous (expression of racism or bigotry) so as to invite that reaction. No one is alienated by someone advocating for lower taxes or a stronger military. It might be pointed out the two concepts are mutually exclusive goals, but this notion that you can’t articulate those type of traditionally conservative perspectives without being ostracized is ridiculous. No, it’s the weird resentment about feeling like you can’t push back on policies that are inclusive for transgender students or racist policing.

I disagree. From reading this thread, warning someone that “free speech doesn’t mean free of consequences” is a palpable threat to “watch what you say or you’ll be ostracized?” A student articulating even sympathy toward a pro-life position can be expected to be labeled (sorry-publicly “called out”) as an anti-woman bigot (even if they are a woman).

It’s not a threat. It’s a logical consequence.

And, yes, anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman. There are plenty of women who are judging other women and trying to push their religious beliefs on everyone else.

Ok. That clarifies things. I get it. Schools function as churches for Democrats. Conservatives can attend, but they should be silent as to their beliefs, just like a pro-choice individual can attend a traditional church provided they keep that opinion to themselves. Vocally contravening the norm “logically” results in alienation — the heretic simply doesn’t fit in. The threat of being ostracized is a tool of indoctrination. I suspect the indoctrination does more harm than good in both venues and need to go process my own thoughts on this.

No, schools are where kids go to learn facts and how to be a good citizen.

Not to learn outdated myths.

" anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman" is not a fact, it's an opinion.

BS. If you want to dictate a woman's reproductive choices, you are antiwoman.

Baloney. I am a woman who knows that it is immoral and wrong for a woman to have an abortion because an abortion is the murder of an innocent baby. I'm not antiwoman, I'm antimurder of babies.

No. You don’t get to push your religious beliefs on others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many people on this thread seem to think it’s fine to ostracize students with conservative views because those views are WRONG. Thankfully, the difference between fact & opinion is still taught in schools. YOU do not get to decide which points of view or opinions are “wrong.” You get to choose what you believe. That’s it.

And for those saying these topics don’t come up, my middle schooler’s social studies teacher, the first week of school, taught a lesson on the tenets or Black Lives Matter and about the transgender “movement.”

I don't "believe" Biden won the 2020 election. That is a fact.

Conservatives who "believe" the election was stolen are WRONG.

I think is fine to ostracize students who are promoting falsehoods, just as I think it is fine to ostracize students who promote "beliefs" that are bigoted, sexist, homophobic, anti-trans, or support any other type of discrimination, because I do think those points of view and opinions are "wrong." And I will continue to tell conservatives who "believe" women should be forced to give birth, transpeople don't exist, gays shouldn't be allowed to marry that they are wrong and I do not accept their "views."

Both of those are opinions not facts.

FACT - Biden was elected the President of the United States.
FACT - Some people have said verbally and in print they believe the election was stolen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"
Are you kidding me? If you are allowed to speak then they need to be allowed to speak. That's the way it works in a democracy with a constitution like ours that protects freedom of speech."

Sigh. You don't understand freedom of speech.

+1

Everyone can speak. And everyone can face the consequences of their words.

And the consequences for perceived thought crimes are for students (and teachers?) to alienate and ostracize a fellow student? In the context of broader society, I imagine businesses will soon put up signs that they only serve democrats (or republicans).

This fear of alienation and ostracism is largely imaginary. In cases where it might happen, the speech must have been so heinous (expression of racism or bigotry) so as to invite that reaction. No one is alienated by someone advocating for lower taxes or a stronger military. It might be pointed out the two concepts are mutually exclusive goals, but this notion that you can’t articulate those type of traditionally conservative perspectives without being ostracized is ridiculous. No, it’s the weird resentment about feeling like you can’t push back on policies that are inclusive for transgender students or racist policing.

I disagree. From reading this thread, warning someone that “free speech doesn’t mean free of consequences” is a palpable threat to “watch what you say or you’ll be ostracized?” A student articulating even sympathy toward a pro-life position can be expected to be labeled (sorry-publicly “called out”) as an anti-woman bigot (even if they are a woman).

It’s not a threat. It’s a logical consequence.

And, yes, anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman. There are plenty of women who are judging other women and trying to push their religious beliefs on everyone else.

Ok. That clarifies things. I get it. Schools function as churches for Democrats. Conservatives can attend, but they should be silent as to their beliefs, just like a pro-choice individual can attend a traditional church provided they keep that opinion to themselves. Vocally contravening the norm “logically” results in alienation — the heretic simply doesn’t fit in. The threat of being ostracized is a tool of indoctrination. I suspect the indoctrination does more harm than good in both venues and need to go process my own thoughts on this.

No, schools are where kids go to learn facts and how to be a good citizen.

Not to learn outdated myths.

" anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman" is not a fact, it's an opinion.

BS. If you want to dictate a woman's reproductive choices, you are antiwoman.

Baloney. I am a woman who knows that it is immoral and wrong for a woman to have an abortion because an abortion is the murder of an innocent baby. I'm not antiwoman, I'm antimurder of babies.

+1

Then you don't have an abortion. I will do what I want when I want. You have zero right to tell others what to do.

I am worth mte than a clump of cells. You probably aren't though.

No one's telling you what to do.
And any teen who might want to share that they believe abortion is wrong also is not telling you what to do. A student in a class discussion stating support for or against the overturning of Roe v Wade also isn't telling you what to do - they're just participating in a class discussion (which this post is supposed to be about!)
You shouldn't tell me that I have to support abortions with my taxes if I believe abortion is wrong.
You shouldn't get to tell a hospital it has to provide abortion services to receive federal funding if the hospital is morally opposed to abortion.
Should every state ban legal abortions, they aren't telling you what to do - they are limiting your access to options. You're still free to have an abortion - just not so easily or safely. Killing a bunch of kids and their teachers is illegal - but people remain free to do it. And no, Republicans shamefully aren't taking their guns away. Shoplifting is illegal - but people are free to do it. It's just that actions and decisions have consequences, some greater than others; and a lot of women/parents/controlling males don't want to take responsibility for the consequences of having consensual sex.

You were a clump of cells once. Fortunately for you, you were already worth more than that clump of cells to the woman who did not end your development prematurely.

Banning abortion - or limiting abortion more than it is today - is telling women what they can and cannot do.

No. You don’t get to force women to submit themselves to your desires.

[Anonymous]

Tell me again about conservative voices being silenced in schools.

https://www.marionstar.com/story/news/local/2022/06/07/river-valley-not-apologizing-anti-gay-graduation-speech/7503920001/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many people on this thread seem to think it’s fine to ostracize students with conservative views because those views are WRONG. Thankfully, the difference between fact & opinion is still taught in schools. YOU do not get to decide which points of view or opinions are “wrong.” You get to choose what you believe. That’s it.

And for those saying these topics don’t come up, my middle schooler’s social studies teacher, the first week of school, taught a lesson on the tenets or Black Lives Matter and about the transgender “movement.”

I don't "believe" Biden won the 2020 election. That is a fact.

Conservatives who "believe" the election was stolen are WRONG.

I think is fine to ostracize students who are promoting falsehoods, just as I think it is fine to ostracize students who promote "beliefs" that are bigoted, sexist, homophobic, anti-trans, or support any other type of discrimination, because I do think those points of view and opinions are "wrong." And I will continue to tell conservatives who "believe" women should be forced to give birth, transpeople don't exist, gays shouldn't be allowed to marry that they are wrong and I do not accept their "views."

Both of those are opinions not facts.

FACT - Biden was elected the President of the United States.
FACT - Some people have said verbally and in print they believe the election was stolen.

Fact - lying is wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"
Are you kidding me? If you are allowed to speak then they need to be allowed to speak. That's the way it works in a democracy with a constitution like ours that protects freedom of speech."

Sigh. You don't understand freedom of speech.

+1

Everyone can speak. And everyone can face the consequences of their words.

And the consequences for perceived thought crimes are for students (and teachers?) to alienate and ostracize a fellow student? In the context of broader society, I imagine businesses will soon put up signs that they only serve democrats (or republicans).

This fear of alienation and ostracism is largely imaginary. In cases where it might happen, the speech must have been so heinous (expression of racism or bigotry) so as to invite that reaction. No one is alienated by someone advocating for lower taxes or a stronger military. It might be pointed out the two concepts are mutually exclusive goals, but this notion that you can’t articulate those type of traditionally conservative perspectives without being ostracized is ridiculous. No, it’s the weird resentment about feeling like you can’t push back on policies that are inclusive for transgender students or racist policing.

I disagree. From reading this thread, warning someone that “free speech doesn’t mean free of consequences” is a palpable threat to “watch what you say or you’ll be ostracized?” A student articulating even sympathy toward a pro-life position can be expected to be labeled (sorry-publicly “called out”) as an anti-woman bigot (even if they are a woman).

It’s not a threat. It’s a logical consequence.

And, yes, anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman. There are plenty of women who are judging other women and trying to push their religious beliefs on everyone else.

Ok. That clarifies things. I get it. Schools function as churches for Democrats. Conservatives can attend, but they should be silent as to their beliefs, just like a pro-choice individual can attend a traditional church provided they keep that opinion to themselves. Vocally contravening the norm “logically” results in alienation — the heretic simply doesn’t fit in. The threat of being ostracized is a tool of indoctrination. I suspect the indoctrination does more harm than good in both venues and need to go process my own thoughts on this.

No, schools are where kids go to learn facts and how to be a good citizen.

Not to learn outdated myths.

" anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman" is not a fact, it's an opinion.

BS. If you want to dictate a woman's reproductive choices, you are antiwoman.

Baloney. I am a woman who knows that it is immoral and wrong for a woman to have an abortion because an abortion is the murder of an innocent baby. I'm not antiwoman, I'm antimurder of babies.

+1

Then you don't have an abortion. I will do what I want when I want. You have zero right to tell others what to do.

I am worth mte than a clump of cells. You probably aren't though.

No one's telling you what to do.
And any teen who might want to share that they believe abortion is wrong also is not telling you what to do. A student in a class discussion stating support for or against the overturning of Roe v Wade also isn't telling you what to do - they're just participating in a class discussion (which this post is supposed to be about!)
You shouldn't tell me that I have to support abortions with my taxes if I believe abortion is wrong.
You shouldn't get to tell a hospital it has to provide abortion services to receive federal funding if the hospital is morally opposed to abortion.
Should every state ban legal abortions, they aren't telling you what to do - they are limiting your access to options. You're still free to have an abortion - just not so easily or safely. Killing a bunch of kids and their teachers is illegal - but people remain free to do it. And no, Republicans shamefully aren't taking their guns away. Shoplifting is illegal - but people are free to do it. It's just that actions and decisions have consequences, some greater than others; and a lot of women/parents/controlling males don't want to take responsibility for the consequences of having consensual sex.

You were a clump of cells once. Fortunately for you, you were already worth more than that clump of cells to the woman who did not end your development prematurely.

I am adopted. People like you treated my mom like crap. I was a mere commodity to them. No one cared about me. Spare me your savior BS.


I would gladly trade my existence for my mother's freedom.


You are enslaving women like my mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tell me again about conservative voices being silenced in schools.

https://www.marionstar.com/story/news/local/2022/06/07/river-valley-not-apologizing-anti-gay-graduation-speech/7503920001/

River Valley??? Where the heck is that??? It’s most definitely not ACPS which is what is being discussed on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many people on this thread seem to think it’s fine to ostracize students with conservative views because those views are WRONG. Thankfully, the difference between fact & opinion is still taught in schools. YOU do not get to decide which points of view or opinions are “wrong.” You get to choose what you believe. That’s it.

And for those saying these topics don’t come up, my middle schooler’s social studies teacher, the first week of school, taught a lesson on the tenets or Black Lives Matter and about the transgender “movement.”

I don't "believe" Biden won the 2020 election. That is a fact.

Conservatives who "believe" the election was stolen are WRONG.

I think is fine to ostracize students who are promoting falsehoods, just as I think it is fine to ostracize students who promote "beliefs" that are bigoted, sexist, homophobic, anti-trans, or support any other type of discrimination, because I do think those points of view and opinions are "wrong." And I will continue to tell conservatives who "believe" women should be forced to give birth, transpeople don't exist, gays shouldn't be allowed to marry that they are wrong and I do not accept their "views."

Both of those are opinions not facts.

FACT - Biden was elected the President of the United States.
FACT - Some people have said verbally and in print they believe the election was stolen.

Fact - lying is wrong?

No - that's another belief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me again about conservative voices being silenced in schools.

https://www.marionstar.com/story/news/local/2022/06/07/river-valley-not-apologizing-anti-gay-graduation-speech/7503920001/

River Valley??? Where the heck is that??? It’s most definitely not ACPS which is what is being discussed on this thread.

Where is ACHS being discussed in this thread????!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"
Are you kidding me? If you are allowed to speak then they need to be allowed to speak. That's the way it works in a democracy with a constitution like ours that protects freedom of speech."

Sigh. You don't understand freedom of speech.

+1

Everyone can speak. And everyone can face the consequences of their words.

And the consequences for perceived thought crimes are for students (and teachers?) to alienate and ostracize a fellow student? In the context of broader society, I imagine businesses will soon put up signs that they only serve democrats (or republicans).

This fear of alienation and ostracism is largely imaginary. In cases where it might happen, the speech must have been so heinous (expression of racism or bigotry) so as to invite that reaction. No one is alienated by someone advocating for lower taxes or a stronger military. It might be pointed out the two concepts are mutually exclusive goals, but this notion that you can’t articulate those type of traditionally conservative perspectives without being ostracized is ridiculous. No, it’s the weird resentment about feeling like you can’t push back on policies that are inclusive for transgender students or racist policing.

I disagree. From reading this thread, warning someone that “free speech doesn’t mean free of consequences” is a palpable threat to “watch what you say or you’ll be ostracized?” A student articulating even sympathy toward a pro-life position can be expected to be labeled (sorry-publicly “called out”) as an anti-woman bigot (even if they are a woman).

It’s not a threat. It’s a logical consequence.

And, yes, anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman. There are plenty of women who are judging other women and trying to push their religious beliefs on everyone else.

Ok. That clarifies things. I get it. Schools function as churches for Democrats. Conservatives can attend, but they should be silent as to their beliefs, just like a pro-choice individual can attend a traditional church provided they keep that opinion to themselves. Vocally contravening the norm “logically” results in alienation — the heretic simply doesn’t fit in. The threat of being ostracized is a tool of indoctrination. I suspect the indoctrination does more harm than good in both venues and need to go process my own thoughts on this.

No, schools are where kids go to learn facts and how to be a good citizen.

Not to learn outdated myths.

" anyone who is anti-choice is anti-woman" is not a fact, it's an opinion.

BS. If you want to dictate a woman's reproductive choices, you are antiwoman.

Baloney. I am a woman who knows that it is immoral and wrong for a woman to have an abortion because an abortion is the murder of an innocent baby. I'm not antiwoman, I'm antimurder of babies.

+1

Then you don't have an abortion. I will do what I want when I want. You have zero right to tell others what to do.

I am worth mte than a clump of cells. You probably aren't though.

No one's telling you what to do.
And any teen who might want to share that they believe abortion is wrong also is not telling you what to do. A student in a class discussion stating support for or against the overturning of Roe v Wade also isn't telling you what to do - they're just participating in a class discussion (which this post is supposed to be about!)
You shouldn't tell me that I have to support abortions with my taxes if I believe abortion is wrong.
You shouldn't get to tell a hospital it has to provide abortion services to receive federal funding if the hospital is morally opposed to abortion.
Should every state ban legal abortions, they aren't telling you what to do - they are limiting your access to options. You're still free to have an abortion - just not so easily or safely. Killing a bunch of kids and their teachers is illegal - but people remain free to do it. And no, Republicans shamefully aren't taking their guns away. Shoplifting is illegal - but people are free to do it. It's just that actions and decisions have consequences, some greater than others; and a lot of women/parents/controlling males don't want to take responsibility for the consequences of having consensual sex.

You were a clump of cells once. Fortunately for you, you were already worth more than that clump of cells to the woman who did not end your development prematurely.

I am adopted. People like you treated my mom like crap. I was a mere commodity to them. No one cared about me. Spare me your savior BS.


I would gladly trade my existence for my mother's freedom.


You are enslaving women like my mother.

You lose more and more credibility each time you respond. FACT: I don't believe you and don't believe you're participating in this conversation genuinely.