Proof of Citizenship

[Anonymous]

Regarding the property seizure laws, here is a link from the conservative Cato institute denouncing these laws.

http://www.cato.org/testimony/ct-rp072296.html

This is a perfect example of how a well-intentioned tool in law enforcement can be abused to the detriment of civil liberties.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:To all those who are against the new law, please let me know at what point our immigration laws should be enforced? Can we support ALL of Latin America in the US?
Also, will the fruit just rot before being picked if we don't have illegal immigrants to pick it? Will lawns go to seed?

The implicit racism of the supporters of the Arizona law is accurately demonstrated by this post. People from all over the world come to the US illegally (or come legally and stay illegally). But, it is only "Latin America" that arouses concern. This despite the fact that illegal immigrants from China and India (and probably several other countries) outnumber those from many Latin American countries.

The Statue of Liberty says, "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

It is long past the time that this hypocritical statue should have been torn down. It's ideals are no longer represented by America. It should be replaced by an electric fence.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To all those who are against the new law, please let me know at what point our immigration laws should be enforced? Can we support ALL of Latin America in the US?
Also, will the fruit just rot before being picked if we don't have illegal immigrants to pick it? Will lawns go to seed?

The implicit racism of the supporters of the Arizona law is accurately demonstrated by this post. People from all over the world come to the US illegally (or come legally and stay illegally). But, it is only "Latin America" that arouses concern. This despite the fact that illegal immigrants from China and India (and probably several other countries) outnumber those from many Latin American countries.

The Statue of Liberty says, "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

It is long past the time that this hypocritical statue should have been torn down. It's ideals are no longer represented by America. It should be replaced by an electric fence.

While there are other illlegals here from non-Latin American countries, the "problem" is the ones who can easily hop the fence so to speak, ie. the porous borders. It's pretty hard to hop a fence from India into the US.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To all those who are against the new law, please let me know at what point our immigration laws should be enforced? Can we support ALL of Latin America in the US?
Also, will the fruit just rot before being picked if we don't have illegal immigrants to pick it? Will lawns go to seed?

The implicit racism of the supporters of the Arizona law is accurately demonstrated by this post. People from all over the world come to the US illegally (or come legally and stay illegally). But, it is only "Latin America" that arouses concern. This despite the fact that illegal immigrants from China and India (and probably several other countries) outnumber those from many Latin American countries.

The Statue of Liberty says, "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"It is long past the time that this hypocritical statue should have been torn down. It's ideals are no longer represented by America. It should be replaced by an electric fence.

Jeff, Pahleeze! The LAW says, enter the country legally. That staue lady has something to do with ideals not law. And she did not say sneak across the border. BTW, in Arizona MOST of the illegal aliens are from Latin America.
I agree that the folks in Arizona would not have noticed these "problem" as quickly if the illegal aliens were white. But the fact is that they are breaking the law. If they can come here illegally, then we should all get a free pass on something, like when I get a speeding ticket, I should not have to pay a cent,...just because.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To all those who are against the new law, please let me know at what point our immigration laws should be enforced? Can we support ALL of Latin America in the US?
Also, will the fruit just rot before being picked if we don't have illegal immigrants to pick it? Will lawns go to seed?

I want immigration laws to be enforced. But I don't want American citizens pulled off the street and put in jail to make that happen. Is that too much to ask? Apparently.

You think this is no big deal because you cannot imagine anyone hauling you off to jail because you weren't carrying your passport that day. Well, I can. I can imagine it just like I can imagine a police officer pulling me over because my "tail light is out". You can argue with a police officer if he's ticketing you for a parking violation. I can't because I might get tossed in jail out of spite. Your teenagers are out and some officer doesn't like the look of them. Look! Time for a citizenship check. Send 'em all to detention and let their parents bring ID to get them out. It's an opportunity for harassment, plain and simple.

This is just like the drug seizure laws, where anyone suspected of a drug crime could get his car seized, his house taken, etc. It sounded like a good idea. But the practical reality was that the police used it abusively. They seized property on people who they did not really have good evidence. If the person asks for the car back, they say "OK, but we'll charge you and you'll have to get a lawyer and go to trial and risk prison". If they walked away from their property, the police would not charge them because they had no case. A lot of small police departments made good money doing this and selling the property at auction.

If they asked for passports here in MD, I would just start to carry mine.
This is illegal immigration not a minor problem. These are not ordinary circumstances, we have a large number of people in this country who are undocumented. Stop fooling yourself.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Jeff, Pahleeze! The LAW says, enter the country legally. That staue lady has something to do with ideals not law. And she did not say sneak across the border. BTW, in Arizona MOST of the illegal aliens are from Latin America.
I agree that the folks in Arizona would not have noticed these "problem" as quickly if the illegal aliens were white. But the fact is that they are breaking the law. If they can come here illegally, then we should all get a free pass on something, like when I get a speeding ticket, I should not have to pay a cent,...just because.

But the law makes it impossible for most of these folks to enter the country legally. Telling them act legally is a giant cop-out because they have no legal option. Also, I assume that you do speed frequently without getting a ticket. I assume you break any number of laws fairly routinely and get away with it. Do you always signal for lane changes? Do you voluntarily pay sales tax on items you purchase over the internet when the merchant doesn't charge you tax?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:
The implicit racism of the supporters of the Arizona law is accurately demonstrated by this post. People from all over the world come to the US illegally (or come legally and stay illegally). But, it is only "Latin America" that arouses concern. This despite the fact that illegal immigrants from China and India (and probably several other countries) outnumber those from many Latin American countries.

Get real. Where the heck do you think most of the illegal immigrants in Arizona actually come from? And don't you think it makes a huge difference in terms of assimilation if the immigrant's original homeland is right next door? (Even leaving aside the fact of all those Mexican flags that were flown at the immigration protests some years back.)

Fine, people who oppose immigration are racist, I get it. Let's stipulate that I am a racist and then talk policy. How many people do we want to be living in this country and where we want them to come from? How many people do you want living in the U.S.A., Mr. Steele? And who do you want those people to be? How shall we choose them? And don't you think there is at least some down-side to mass immigration? Who should bear those costs?

[Anonymous]

I want as many people living in this country as it takes to maintain and grow the economy. I want them to self-select... the ones who believe that hard work will get them somewhere in life. Will that bring some opportunistic/ predatory/ lazy bad apples? Of course. As if we don't have a bumper crop of homegrown ones.

Hey, while we're taking a dump on the constitution, how about this? For every undocumented immigrant working two jobs here in the U.S., we ship a chronic welfare leech citizen somewhere overseas. Pretty soon, this will be a darned nice place to live!

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Jeff, Pahleeze! The LAW says, enter the country legally. That staue lady has something to do with ideals not law. And she did not say sneak across the border. BTW, in Arizona MOST of the illegal aliens are from Latin America.
I agree that the folks in Arizona would not have noticed these "problem" as quickly if the illegal aliens were white. But the fact is that they are breaking the law. If they can come here illegally, then we should all get a free pass on something, like when I get a speeding ticket, I should not have to pay a cent,...just because.

But the law makes it impossible for most of these folks to enter the country legally. Telling them act legally is a giant cop-out because they have no legal option. Also, I assume that you do speed frequently without getting a ticket. I assume you break any number of laws fairly routinely and get away with it. Do you always signal for lane changes? Do you voluntarily pay sales tax on items you purchase over the internet when the merchant doesn't charge you tax?

FYI Jeff, the US is NOT the only country in te world. These are people who have their own countries, so the legal option is to stay home.
The standard of living for a large chunk of the world's population is relatively low. That does not mean we have to "rescue" them all. And BTW, these Latin American countries for the most part have standards of living that are higer than they were 25 years ago. I think that only Haiti may have slipped back.
BTW, when I speed and get a ticket, I never protest. Those things that come in the mail when we are caught on camera speeding, simply place check in envelope, stamp and mail. I have never not paid taxes on goods purchased on teh internet.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Get real. Where the heck do you think most of the illegal immigrants in Arizona actually come from? And don't you think it makes a huge difference in terms of assimilation if the immigrant's original homeland is right next door? (Even leaving aside the fact of all those Mexican flags that were flown at the immigration protests some years back.)

Fine, people who oppose immigration are racist, I get it. Let's stipulate that I am a racist and then talk policy. How many people do we want to be living in this country and where we want them to come from? How many people do you want living in the U.S.A., Mr. Steele? And who do you want those people to be? How shall we choose them? And don't you think there is at least some down-side to mass immigration? Who should bear those costs?

My answer to questions such as "where we want them to come from" will be "I don't care". Why should we treat people differently based on national origin? Doing so is inherently discriminatory. Much of the problem with our current immigration policy is that is has been overly politicized. Is it fair that Cubans are automatically welcome if they are able to touch US soil (by whatever means) while a Haitian is deported? Can anyone seriously argue that Cubans are worse off in their homeland than Haitians?

Many of you seem so concerned that immigrants will change our country's culture and values. Perhaps this is due to language. While Spanish existed in much of today's USA earlier than English (do San Francisco, El Paso, Albuquerque, or even Toledo sound like English names?), there is tremendous animosity towards the use of Spanish. But, the irony is that to combat potential corruption of our culture, you support efforts that are directly contradictory to our alleged values. Laws that presume you guilty until proven innocent are un-American. Frankly, I am more fearful of the damage you are doing to our values than I am of harm coming from immigrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey, while we're taking a dump on the constitution, how about this? For every undocumented immigrant working two jobs here in the U.S., we ship a chronic welfare leech citizen somewhere overseas. Pretty soon, this will be a darned nice place to live!

This one made me LOL.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote: to combat potential corruption of our culture, you support efforts that are directly contradictory to our alleged values. Laws that presume you guilty until proven innocent are un-American. Frankly, I am more fearful of the damage you are doing to our values than I am of harm coming from immigrants.

*clap clap clap*

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Get real. Where the heck do you think most of the illegal immigrants in Arizona actually come from? And don't you think it makes a huge difference in terms of assimilation if the immigrant's original homeland is right next door? (Even leaving aside the fact of all those Mexican flags that were flown at the immigration protests some years back.)

Fine, people who oppose immigration are racist, I get it. Let's stipulate that I am a racist and then talk policy. How many people do we want to be living in this country and where we want them to come from? How many people do you want living in the U.S.A., Mr. Steele? And who do you want those people to be? How shall we choose them? And don't you think there is at least some down-side to mass immigration? Who should bear those costs?

My answer to questions such as "where we want them to come from" will be "I don't care". Why should we treat people differently based on national origin? Doing so is inherently discriminatory. Much of the problem with our current immigration policy is that is has been overly politicized. Is it fair that Cubans are automatically welcome if they are able to touch US soil (by whatever means) while a Haitian is deported? Can anyone seriously argue that Cubans are worse off in their homeland than Haitians?

Many of you seem so concerned that immigrants will change our country's culture and values. Perhaps this is due to language. While Spanish existed in much of today's USA earlier than English (do San Francisco, El Paso, Albuquerque, or even Toledo sound like English names?), there is tremendous animosity towards the use of Spanish. But, the irony is that to combat potential corruption of our culture, you support efforts that are directly contradictory to our alleged values. Laws that presume you guilty until proven innocent are un-American. Frankly, I am more fearful of the damage you are doing to our values than I am of harm coming from immigrants.

Agree, but the way around that is making sure that the police check on just as many whites, asians, and blacks as they do hispanics, would that be OK?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Agree, but the way around that is making sure that the police check on just as many whites, asians, and blacks as they do hispanics, would that be OK?

No. Forcing people to prove their innocence is not acceptable.

What I would support are immigration status checks on all individuals charged with felonies. That means that even if you are a blue-blooded Iowa farm boy, you get your status checked if you are charged with a felony. Illegals that don't commit felonies are welcome to continue their contributions to our society.

Another point of interest. A few years back, Congress adopted the "REAL ID" law that provided standards for driver's licenses. One aspect of this is that it would be near impossible for illegal immigrants to obtain. Arizona's legislature, which is and was dominated by Republicans, passed a law preventing Arizona from cooperating with REAL ID. A Democratic Governor (current head of DHS) signed the bill into law. If Arizona would adopt REAL ID, it would be a big step toward making it easier for people to prove they are legal.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Agree, but the way around that is making sure that the police check on just as many whites, asians, and blacks as they do hispanics, would that be OK?

No. Forcing people to prove their innocence is not acceptable.

What I would support are immigration status checks on all individuals charged with felonies. That means that even if you are a blue-blooded Iowa farm boy, you get your status checked if you are charged with a felony. Illegals that don't commit felonies are welcome to continue their contributions to our society.Another point of interest. A few years back, Congress adopted the "REAL ID" law that provided standards for driver's licenses. One aspect of this is that it would be near impossible for illegal immigrants to obtain. Arizona's legislature, which is and was dominated by Republicans, passed a law preventing Arizona from cooperating with REAL ID. A Democratic Governor (current head of DHS) signed the bill into law. If Arizona would adopt REAL ID, it would be a big step toward making it easier for people to prove they are legal.

Says who? Maybe you meant "should be welcome"? But I can not support one illegal immigrant. They may seem like they are contributing, but they come with a basic disrespect of the rules, demonstrated by their illegal status. Not a group that I would want to populate my country. BTW, there are members of my family who have been deported, and I have little to say to them about it. What can I say? They broke the law!