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Proof of Citizenship
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Anonymous
| My black husband, coincidentally from az, fully supports this move- as do I. If it's the Feds responsibilty to monitor immigration why haven't they done boo since the LAST amnesty? Sorry - there is no trust anymore. I am glad the states - which have borne the financial social brunt are finally doing something. The Nazi comparison blows. We all know it should not have come to this- so how bout the Feds propose a reasonable alterntive that everyone can get behind? And reasonalbe is not open borders and amnesty. |
Anonymous
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"Shhh....it's only bad for white people to enforce immigration laws."
The worst part of your argument is that you believe that everyone in the US that is involved in policy and law enforcement is white. This isn't true and surely you know that. |
Anonymous
|
THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. THEN THEY CAME for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. THEN THEY CAME for me and by that time no one was left to speak up. Martin Niemöller |
Anonymous
New poster. That might be true, but you should look at the racial composition of the police forces in the major cities in Arizona. They are way out of whack with the ethnic composition of their cities. No way is the Phoenix police department 1/4 hispanic. Maybe 10% at best. |
Anonymous
powerful quote - not remotely applicable. Why don't you acknowldge why the overwhelming majority of az voters are frustatd and flummoxed and where help is coming from for them if not from this law? Or keep trolling silly Nazi charges. |
jsteele
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Another powerful quote: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin. Arizonans deserve neither liberty nor safety. |
Anonymous
| So, what's the answer, people? Anyone have any ideas about the illegal problem? How do we keep them out or at least get them to enter via legal means? This problem seems virtually insurmountable with the porous borders, and the fact that the people coming through them happen to have brown skin. |
Anonymous
What's the problem? These people are not taking the jobs of any people who post on DCUM, that's for sure (except maybe the nannies). They might be scrubbing the shit out of the toilets in the office building where you work, or picking the organic vegetable crops that are so important to feed our oh so special children, or doing yard work in the neighborhood, and we should all be glad they will do it. |
Anonymous
| My legal immigrant grandparents did the above. There are plenty of people to do that work, and if not, then set up a legal guest worker program or raise quotas for legal immigrants. ALSO, ensure people doing that work are not exploited/paid fair wages. That is a spurious argument. |
Anonymous
| I have not read the entire thread but I am an immigration attorney. I don't know the specifics of the AZ law, but I support the idea of reducing the deluge of illegals into our borders for reasons of security and cost (ie, taxpayers pay for undocumented persons using public facilities, like schools and hospitals.). I do not support racial profiling, but since the federal govt has done NOTHING (and I am an Obama supporter by the way), I can understand the AZ governor feeling the need to do something. |
Anonymous
| PP here, by the way, I am a "brown" (United States citizen) immigration attorney who is the child of immigrants. I am brown and afirst generation "American", in case that makes any difference. And I do not have a problem with limiting certain rights/privileges, in order to stem the tide of undocumented people. Our immigration laws are some of the MOST forgiving laws in the entire world. I have personally seen cases where people are able to live in the US for YEARS (over 10 or more) before we actually physically remove them, and this is after they are given numerous opportunities to file applications and appeals to stay in the US legally. Our system is broken, we must acknowledge that and try to find a workable solution. I am not saying the AZ law is the best solution, but at least it is an effort at doing something, particularly in a state that has the most illegal border crossers. By the way, simply removing/deporting people is NOT enough, b/c they simply turn around and re-cross the border 1, or 2, or 5, or 10 days later. We MUST secure our borders. I have also seen cases where people from Russia, China, India, virtually all over the world, cross into the US from Mexico. EVERYONE knows our borders are not secure. This is a HUGE security risk and something MUST be done, even if that means some of our liberties are restricted (ie, requiring people to show ID). |
jsteele
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I don't believe that you are really ready to sacrifice your liberties. I am sure that you don't believe this will affect you. Rather, you are willing to sacrifice others' liberties. At any rate, the requirement is not simply to show an ID. Individuals will be required to prove their immigration status. Why don't you begin carrying proof of citizenship with you 24 hours a day from now on so that you can show solidarity with those whose liberties you are so happy to sacrifice? This week a trucker was arrested at a weigh station because he didn't have his birth certificate. He had a commercial driver's license and a social security card, but was taken into custody by ICE. His wife, who like him was born in America, had to leave her job to go get his birth certificate to get him out of detention. Of course, he didn't have blond hair and blue eyes so he was naturally suspicious. |
Anonymous
| This is so much more about racism/bigotry than it is about crime and security. Crime is down across the nation. It's down in Arizona and it's down in Phoenix. There is no reason for additional laws to "stop" crime. Do we need immigration reform? Yes, but that's a federal issue not a state one. |
Anonymous
Or killing Chandra Levy. BTW, maybe we need to make sure that the jobs in agriculture paid more, so food prices would go up and Americans would stop eating so much. While we're at it, do you think that when they make these folks citizens that they are still going to pick strawberries? |
Anonymous
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"I don't believe that you are really ready to sacrifice your liberties. I am sure that you don't believe this will affect you."
PP from above here who is an immigration attorney. I do believe this could possibly affect me. I remember right after 9-11 getting stopped at the airport all the time for a more thorough security check - yes, it was racial profiling, no doubt about it. Did I like it when it was me? No. Did I understand? Yes. I get it, it's better than checking the little old lady with a cane. That being said, I do not agree with racial profiling, but I can understand the temptation to use it. This law in AZ could be abused, I agree with that. Nonetheless, I am willing to carry some sort of national ID card that can be requested by the police at any time. I honestly see no problem with that. Of course, this ID card needs to be pretty damn special so that counterfeiters cannot easily recplicate it. With an ID card system, it is still possible that the police will target people like me more for random checks, but I am here legally and I am not a criminal (ie, committing other non-immigration related crimes), thus I have nothing to hide and would willingly carry an ID card (assuming all other USCs had to do the same) in order to try to solve the problem of MILLIONS of undocumented people in this country. I am a taxpayer and do not think my tax dollars should be going towards FREE medical services and other public benefits to people here illegally. There are THOUSANDS of people overseas who wait years to come here legally. The ones who cross the border are often coming from desperate situations in their home countries and I understand that. Nonetheless, for the immigration system to work, there needs to be some integrity in the process, meaning people have to wait their turn. Unfortunately, many of the border crossers have NO legal way to get here, b/c they cannot get a work or family based visa. So, one could argue that they really don't have the option of "waiting their turn" since there is no "line" for them. It's a very sad situation for these people, but I still do not agree with doing nothing and allowing our borders to remain so porous. Like many Americans, I am frustrated with the broken system. |