Proof of Citizenship

[jsteele]

If you were stopped on the street today, could you prove that you are legally here? If not, don't go to Arizona.

[Anonymous]

What are the requirements?

[Anonymous]

And what exactly is "reasonable suspicion" that someone is undocumented? I can't think of anything reasonable except witnessing that person run across the border.

How can this law possibly be legal?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:If you were stopped on the street today, could you prove that you are legally here? If not, don't go to Arizona.

Maybe not today, but if I lived in a state where it was required then I would make sure I could.

[Anonymous]

I really have no objection to it.
The only thing they need to make sure of is that they are asking just as many white people for proof as they are asking brown people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really have no objection to it.
The only thing they need to make sure of is that they are asking just as many white people for proof as they are asking brown people.

But you know that is not the premise of the law. White people will never be asked. The cops in AZ will be targeting people of COLOR.

[Anonymous]

Not that it justifies it but it's a border state that has to deal with a lot of people illegally in the country and related issues.

[jsteele]

Once again I am disappointed, though at this point no longer surprised, that there is so little interest in the constitutional issues. As Americans, we have no legal requirement to even show identification under normal circumstances. If I am stopped randomly by a police officer, I can legally not even identify myself, let along prove my citizenship. Arizona strips us of this right.

Second, but more importantly, the Arizona law assumes you are guilty until proven innocent. If a police officer stops you, suspects that you are illegal, it is up to you to prove he is wrong. Otherwise, you go to jail. This stands the foundation of the American justice system on its head.

How many people do you know that do not have a passport? How many of them may not be able to locate their birth certificate? How are they going to prove their innocence?

Every day our rights are being stripped from us. But, unless those rights involves guns or taxes, very few people seem to care.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Once again I am disappointed, though at this point no longer surprised, that there is so little interest in the constitutional issues. As Americans, we have no legal requirement to even show identification under normal circumstances. If I am stopped randomly by a police officer, I can legally not even identify myself, let along prove my citizenship. Arizona strips us of this right.

Second, but more importantly, the Arizona law assumes you are guilty until proven innocent. If a police officer stops you, suspects that you are illegal, it is up to you to prove he is wrong. Otherwise, you go to jail. This stands the foundation of the American justice system on its head.

How many people do you know that do not have a passport? How many of them may not be able to locate their birth certificate? How are they going to prove their innocence?

Every day our rights are being stripped from us. But, unless those rights involves guns or taxes, very few people seem to care.

I don't disagree with you, but I will note that it is somewhat difficult to share your high dudgeon over the AZ law when you don't generally have the same high dudgeon over those other rights that you mention (guns, taxes) being violated. Are only some rights sacred in your opinion? (And if it matters, I'm in favor of gun-control and centrist on taxes. I just am noting the double-standard anyway.)

[Anonymous]

Arizona is just nuts when it comes to issues of race and ethnicity. Ever since Gov. Evan Mecham. I never thought I'd say this, but they really need to take a lesson from Texas.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Once again I am disappointed, though at this point no longer surprised, that there is so little interest in the constitutional issues. As Americans, we have no legal requirement to even show identification under normal circumstances. If I am stopped randomly by a police officer, I can legally not even identify myself, let along prove my citizenship. Arizona strips us of this right.

Second, but more importantly, the Arizona law assumes you are guilty until proven innocent. If a police officer stops you, suspects that you are illegal, it is up to you to prove he is wrong. Otherwise, you go to jail. This stands the foundation of the American justice system on its head.

How many people do you know that do not have a passport? How many of them may not be able to locate their birth certificate? How are they going to prove their innocence?

Every day our rights are being stripped from us. But, unless those rights involves guns or taxes, very few people seem to care.

With the number of illegal people in that state, I could hardly call it a normal circumstance.

[Anonymous]

Maybe in the coming decades, what goes around will come around. When Latinos become the majority race, they can limit immigration from certain countries and pass similar laws about certain minorities at that time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe in the coming decades, what goes around will come around. When Latinos become the majority race, they can limit immigration from certain countries and pass similar laws about certain minorities at that time.

You know, that is already an issue. Many come from countries that are so corrupt that we need to think about what cultural changes might come along. There is already a lack of human rights in Latin America. Also, these are people who have no problem with breaking the law, evidenced by their illegal immigration. So we're playing with fire. Arizona is on the right track.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't disagree with you, but I will note that it is somewhat difficult to share your high dudgeon over the AZ law when you don't generally have the same high dudgeon over those other rights that you mention (guns, taxes) being violated. Are only some rights sacred in your opinion? (And if it matters, I'm in favor of gun-control and centrist on taxes. I just am noting the double-standard anyway.)

I am not sure that you are qualified to comment on my positions on guns and taxes. Moreover, both taxes and gun control are constitutionally allowed. To compare my support of constitutionally-allowed measures to my opposition to something that infringes on our constitutional rights, makes no logical sense,

Anonymous wrote:
You know, that is already an issue. Many come from countries that are so corrupt that we need to think about what cultural changes might come along. There is already a lack of human rights in Latin America. Also, these are people who have no problem with breaking the law, evidenced by their illegal immigration. So we're playing with fire. Arizona is on the right track.

This country was founded by people who simply stole the land and killed the inhabitants. I'm not sure the cultural values of new immigrants should be much of a threat. Anyway, they are coming from countries in which they have few rights to a country in which the government will read your email without a warrant, detain you without charges, torture you, maybe assassinate you, and now consider you guilty until you prove yourself innocent. They should feel right at home, culturally-speaking. Although, now they will have an easier time buying guns and they agree with tea baggers regarding taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really have no objection to it.
The only thing they need to make sure of is that they are asking just as many white people for proof as they are asking brown people.

I would be happy if police were just allowed to ask people pulled over for traffic violations or arrested in crimes. Is that a lot to ask? It has reached the point in AZ b/cause the Federal gov is doing nothing. Nothing. A sane, legal pathway to immigration for non-violators of law from ALL OVER the world (not just proximal neighbors) is needed desperately. And illegal immigrants should be charged with the laws they are violating.