VDOE - VMPI is dead? Isn't that illegal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[guardian]

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Anonymous wrote:VMPI is disastrous for public schools. It’s a very good thing that he is getting rid of it.

To the pp that was lamenting about just buying in a good school district and now going to have to look at private. You should send him an email to thank him. He just saved your good public school.

Why - because blending algebra & geometry and adding data science was really that terrible?

No, because they wanted to put all kids in the same math class until 10th or 11th grade. I hate Youngkin and did not vote for him but I'm glad this is gone.

That idea that was loosely floated (not even on infographic) around a year ago was squashed several months ago. Stop spreading disinformation.

It was actually in the initial proposal as was equity as the #1 goal (not math education), then it was quickly walked back and equity was put further down the list of goals. They were waiting until after the election until releasing the final version. It truly was like a "you have to pass it to find out what's in it". Didn't vote for him, but know a lot of Asian people who did solely for this issue.

You have a problem with VDOE making sure that Virginia's math curriculum isn't leaving certain students behind or unprepared to hold a job?

Of course not. But let’s not leave them behind by devoting resources to help them catch up and be their very best, not by holding advanced kids back.

VMPI would not do that. This was clarified a long time ago, you just don't want to acknowledge it because it guts your best argument against VMPI.

+1

People still “concerned” about advanced math are either not paying attention or have ulterior motives.

Yes, my ulterior motive was making sure my son could get into Algebra early before that opportunity was taken away from him.

LCPS changes weren’t driven by VMPI. You’re blaming VDOE for a decision LCPS made.

I’m the previous poster you are responding to. I don’t live in Loudoun County—I live in Arlington.

APS was already slowing down acceleration years ago. After accelerating it. The course offerings and pathways have fluctuated over the years, driven by the APS math department. Not VMPI - it didn’t exist then.

I am aware of that, but the concern was whether VMPI would prod Arlington to further limit access to advanced math, such as Algebra in 7th grade, beyond the changes they had already made. Especially in light of changes that they had to make on the fly to the 6th grade math curriculum due to virtual learning (a necessity due to the extenuating circumstances), there was a legitimate concern that Arlington would use proposed changes at the state level to further restrict or eliminate the ability to take Algebra in 7th grade. And farther out, there was a separate concern about how the transition would take place to the new curriculum for those who are advanced in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not going to agree with Youngkin on much (and I didn’t vote for him), but I’m glad he’s doing this. Dumbing down math in the name of equity would have been a disaster, and while folks have been backpedaling on that, the entire process now seems tainted to me.

Stop peddling GOP propaganda.

They weren't dumbing down math.

Yes they were -- watch the videos!

[Anonymous]

Anyone with an advanced math student knows this is all true. The only ones denying don't have strong math students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Detracking was never on the infographic. But calculus always was.

APS slowed down acceleration a few years ago - before VMPI. It was a decision made by math department because they weren’t happy with outcomes. Too many kids pushed into algebra too early for no significant benefit. It was an educational decision, not political.

+1. People here seem to treat Algebra in sixth grade and calculus in high school as in they are ends into themselves rather than stepping stones to further learning. It is not helpful at all for a kid to take calculus in high school if they don’t learn the material because they didn’t come into it with and adequate foundation. VMPI is intended in part to make sure that foundation exists before kids take calculus rather than getting them to calculus in high school at any cost. It is also designed to provide a productive and useful path for those kids who are not going to take calculus for whatever reason. None of that was going to prohibit school systems from offering calculus in high school for those who are prepared for it.

There are other options then Calculus in FCPS and I believe the other counties near by. Plenty of options. There are pathways for math that don't include Calculus so the idea that they would create a pathway that pretty much does away with Calculus was crazy.

I don't think that Algebra in 6th grade is something to shoot for, I think 7th grade is early. I figured that 8th grade for Algebra was advanced. Then I had a kid who loves math and does it for fun. Do I want him taking Algebra in 6th grade? Nope. He will probably take it in 7th grade and be fine with it. I can imagine that there are kids who are picking up math more quickly then my kid. They should have a path forward that works for them. No one is arguing that all kids should be aiming for Algebra in 6th grade. The original VMPI info I saw pretty much removed Algebra in MS or made it really, really hard to get into. Say what you will, there are kids who are ready for it and that path needs to be there.

And Algebra in 7th, at least in FCPS, can be opted out of. I know people who have done that. We have a neighbor who suggested we think long and hard about it Algebra in 7th, her kid is good at math but not into STEM. They wish that she had waited until 8th because the math beyond Calculus is doable but unnecessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VMPI is disastrous for public schools. It’s a very good thing that he is getting rid of it.

To the pp that was lamenting about just buying in a good school district and now going to have to look at private. You should send him an email to thank him. He just saved your good public school.

Why - because blending algebra & geometry and adding data science was really that terrible?

No, because they wanted to put all kids in the same math class until 10th or 11th grade. I hate Youngkin and did not vote for him but I'm glad this is gone.

That idea that was loosely floated (not even on infographic) around a year ago was squashed several months ago. Stop spreading disinformation.

It was actually in the initial proposal as was equity as the #1 goal (not math education), then it was quickly walked back and equity was put further down the list of goals. They were waiting until after the election until releasing the final version. It truly was like a "you have to pass it to find out what's in it". Didn't vote for him, but know a lot of Asian people who did solely for this issue.

You have a problem with VDOE making sure that Virginia's math curriculum isn't leaving certain students behind or unprepared to hold a job?

Of course not. But let’s not leave them behind by devoting resources to help them catch up and be their very best, not by holding advanced kids back.

VMPI would not do that. This was clarified a long time ago, you just don't want to acknowledge it because it guts your best argument against VMPI.

+1

People still “concerned” about advanced math are either not paying attention or have ulterior motives.

Yes, my ulterior motive was making sure my son could get into Algebra early before that opportunity was taken away from him.

LCPS changes weren’t driven by VMPI. You’re blaming VDOE for a decision LCPS made.

I’m the previous poster you are responding to. I don’t live in Loudoun County—I live in Arlington.

When did Arlington take away the ability to take accelerate algebra? My seventh grader is taking it now, which from everything I’ve seen is the earliest you could take it in any of the APS math pathways.

They didn’t take away the option, but they greatly (& quietly) increased the Math Inventory score needed in 6th grade (which was virtual & had asynchronous Mondays last year) to qualify for alegrara in 7th. At my kid’s APS middle school, there is no 7th grade alegra class this year. There are a few 7th graders taking algebra in an 8th grade class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VMPI is disastrous for public schools. It’s a very good thing that he is getting rid of it.

To the pp that was lamenting about just buying in a good school district and now going to have to look at private. You should send him an email to thank him. He just saved your good public school.

Why - because blending algebra & geometry and adding data science was really that terrible?

No, because they wanted to put all kids in the same math class until 10th or 11th grade. I hate Youngkin and did not vote for him but I'm glad this is gone.

That idea that was loosely floated (not even on infographic) around a year ago was squashed several months ago. Stop spreading disinformation.

It was actually in the initial proposal as was equity as the #1 goal (not math education), then it was quickly walked back and equity was put further down the list of goals. They were waiting until after the election until releasing the final version. It truly was like a "you have to pass it to find out what's in it". Didn't vote for him, but know a lot of Asian people who did solely for this issue.

You have a problem with VDOE making sure that Virginia's math curriculum isn't leaving certain students behind or unprepared to hold a job?

Of course not. But let’s not leave them behind by devoting resources to help them catch up and be their very best, not by holding advanced kids back.

VMPI would not do that. This was clarified a long time ago, you just don't want to acknowledge it because it guts your best argument against VMPI.

+1

People still “concerned” about advanced math are either not paying attention or have ulterior motives.

Yes, my ulterior motive was making sure my son could get into Algebra early before that opportunity was taken away from him.

LCPS changes weren’t driven by VMPI. You’re blaming VDOE for a decision LCPS made.

I’m the previous poster you are responding to. I don’t live in Loudoun County—I live in Arlington.

When did Arlington take away the ability to take accelerate algebra? My seventh grader is taking it now, which from everything I’ve seen is the earliest you could take it in any of the APS math pathways.

They didn’t take away the option, but they greatly (& quietly) increased the Math Inventory score needed in 6th grade (which was virtual & had asynchronous Mondays last year) to qualify for alegrara in 7th. At my kid’s APS middle school, there is no 7th grade alegra class this year. There are a few 7th graders taking algebra in an 8th grade class.

Which middle school is that?

[Anonymous]

Let me tell you getting rid of VMPI is the best news ever. APS has been trying to lower standards in math for the last 3 years. I am so glad l let my child take Algebra in 7th in spite of their stupid advice. She is thriving and getting 98-103 percent on her tests and has a very strong A. . Parents need to understand APS math office has agenda. Please please please keep advocating for advanced classes and challenge for your bright student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VMPI is disastrous for public schools. It’s a very good thing that he is getting rid of it.

To the pp that was lamenting about just buying in a good school district and now going to have to look at private. You should send him an email to thank him. He just saved your good public school.

Why - because blending algebra & geometry and adding data science was really that terrible?

No, because they wanted to put all kids in the same math class until 10th or 11th grade. I hate Youngkin and did not vote for him but I'm glad this is gone.

That idea that was loosely floated (not even on infographic) around a year ago was squashed several months ago. Stop spreading disinformation.

It was actually in the initial proposal as was equity as the #1 goal (not math education), then it was quickly walked back and equity was put further down the list of goals. They were waiting until after the election until releasing the final version. It truly was like a "you have to pass it to find out what's in it". Didn't vote for him, but know a lot of Asian people who did solely for this issue.

You have a problem with VDOE making sure that Virginia's math curriculum isn't leaving certain students behind or unprepared to hold a job?

Of course not. But let’s not leave them behind by devoting resources to help them catch up and be their very best, not by holding advanced kids back.

VMPI would not do that. This was clarified a long time ago, you just don't want to acknowledge it because it guts your best argument against VMPI.

+1

People still “concerned” about advanced math are either not paying attention or have ulterior motives.

Yes, my ulterior motive was making sure my son could get into Algebra early before that opportunity was taken away from him.

LCPS changes weren’t driven by VMPI. You’re blaming VDOE for a decision LCPS made.

I’m the previous poster you are responding to. I don’t live in Loudoun County—I live in Arlington.

When did Arlington take away the ability to take accelerate algebra? My seventh grader is taking it now, which from everything I’ve seen is the earliest you could take it in any of the APS math pathways.

They didn’t take away the option, but they greatly (& quietly) increased the Math Inventory score needed in 6th grade (which was virtual & had asynchronous Mondays last year) to qualify for alegrara in 7th. At my kid’s APS middle school, there is no 7th grade alegra class this year. There are a few 7th graders taking algebra in an 8th grade class.

Which middle school is that?

Gunston

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with an advanced math student knows this is all true. The only ones denying don't have strong math students.

No, it's quite the opposite. It's very clear what happened with VMPI - it's well documented - and some people are misrepresenting it for ulterior purposes.

-strong math parent to strong math kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VMPI is disastrous for public schools. It’s a very good thing that he is getting rid of it.

To the pp that was lamenting about just buying in a good school district and now going to have to look at private. You should send him an email to thank him. He just saved your good public school.

Why - because blending algebra & geometry and adding data science was really that terrible?

No, because they wanted to put all kids in the same math class until 10th or 11th grade. I hate Youngkin and did not vote for him but I'm glad this is gone.

That idea that was loosely floated (not even on infographic) around a year ago was squashed several months ago. Stop spreading disinformation.

It was actually in the initial proposal as was equity as the #1 goal (not math education), then it was quickly walked back and equity was put further down the list of goals. They were waiting until after the election until releasing the final version. It truly was like a "you have to pass it to find out what's in it". Didn't vote for him, but know a lot of Asian people who did solely for this issue.

You have a problem with VDOE making sure that Virginia's math curriculum isn't leaving certain students behind or unprepared to hold a job?

Of course not. But let’s not leave them behind by devoting resources to help them catch up and be their very best, not by holding advanced kids back.

VMPI would not do that. This was clarified a long time ago, you just don't want to acknowledge it because it guts your best argument against VMPI.

+1

People still “concerned” about advanced math are either not paying attention or have ulterior motives.

Yes, my ulterior motive was making sure my son could get into Algebra early before that opportunity was taken away from him.

LCPS changes weren’t driven by VMPI. You’re blaming VDOE for a decision LCPS made.

I’m the previous poster you are responding to. I don’t live in Loudoun County—I live in Arlington.

When did Arlington take away the ability to take accelerate algebra? My seventh grader is taking it now, which from everything I’ve seen is the earliest you could take it in any of the APS math pathways.

They didn’t take away the option, but they greatly (& quietly) increased the Math Inventory score needed in 6th grade (which was virtual & had asynchronous Mondays last year) to qualify for alegrara in 7th. At my kid’s APS middle school, there is no 7th grade alegra class this year. There are a few 7th graders taking algebra in an 8th grade class.

APS used to offer Algebra in 6th grade (3 grade levels ahead) but then stopped a few years ago. Right now, kids can take it in 7th (2 grade levels ahead), 8th (1 grade level ahead), or 9th (default path).

And now they are increasing the criteria for kids to take Algebra and/or Intensified option. They are raising the bar on advanced math, not lowering it.

They have made these changes for academic reasons - they were seeing less-than-great results with no practical benefit. That's how they explained it when they stopped offering Algebra in 6th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me tell you getting rid of VMPI is the best news ever. APS has been trying to lower standards in math for the last 3 years. I am so glad l let my child take Algebra in 7th in spite of their stupid advice. She is thriving and getting 98-103 percent on her tests and has a very strong A. . Parents need to understand APS math office has agenda. Please please please keep advocating for advanced classes and challenge for your bright student.

Increasing the criteria for taking algebra/intensified is RAISING the bar, not lowering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Detracking was never on the infographic. But calculus always was.

APS slowed down acceleration a few years ago - before VMPI. It was a decision made by math department because they weren’t happy with outcomes. Too many kids pushed into algebra too early for no significant benefit. It was an educational decision, not political.

+1. People here seem to treat Algebra in sixth grade and calculus in high school as in they are ends into themselves rather than stepping stones to further learning. It is not helpful at all for a kid to take calculus in high school if they don’t learn the material because they didn’t come into it with and adequate foundation. VMPI is intended in part to make sure that foundation exists before kids take calculus rather than getting them to calculus in high school at any cost. It is also designed to provide a productive and useful path for those kids who are not going to take calculus for whatever reason. None of that was going to prohibit school systems from offering calculus in high school for those who are prepared for it.

There are other options then Calculus in FCPS and I believe the other counties near by. Plenty of options. There are pathways for math that don't include Calculus so the idea that they would create a pathway that pretty much does away with Calculus was crazy.

I don't think that Algebra in 6th grade is something to shoot for, I think 7th grade is early. I figured that 8th grade for Algebra was advanced. Then I had a kid who loves math and does it for fun. Do I want him taking Algebra in 6th grade? Nope. He will probably take it in 7th grade and be fine with it. I can imagine that there are kids who are picking up math more quickly then my kid. They should have a path forward that works for them. No one is arguing that all kids should be aiming for Algebra in 6th grade. The original VMPI info I saw pretty much removed Algebra in MS or made it really, really hard to get into. Say what you will, there are kids who are ready for it and that path needs to be there.

And Algebra in 7th, at least in FCPS, can be opted out of. I know people who have done that. We have a neighbor who suggested we think long and hard about it Algebra in 7th, her kid is good at math but not into STEM. They wish that she had waited until 8th because the math beyond Calculus is doable but unnecessary.

No, that concept shared early on in VMPI would have changed the default math path to be the equivalent of A1 in 8th grade - instead of 9th. So it would actually be accelerating the default path. And they never said they were taking away the ability of school systems to accelerate students as they can do today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with an advanced math student knows this is all true. The only ones denying don't have strong math students.

No, it's quite the opposite. It's very clear what happened with VMPI - it's well documented - and some people are misrepresenting it for ulterior purposes.

-strong math parent to strong math kids

Well I don’t know what to tell you. My 5th grader has fewer options to accelerate (and has to jump through more hoops) than my 8th grader did. That is a FACT. We are making 5th grade math selections (for 6th) as I type this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with an advanced math student knows this is all true. The only ones denying don't have strong math students.

No, it's quite the opposite. It's very clear what happened with VMPI - it's well documented - and some people are misrepresenting it for ulterior purposes.

-strong math parent to strong math kids

Well I don’t know what to tell you. My 5th grader has fewer options to accelerate (and has to jump through more hoops) than my 8th grader did. That is a FACT. We are making 5th grade math selections (for 6th) as I type this.

And that has nothing to do with VMPI which never even put out a draft and is now dead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with an advanced math student knows this is all true. The only ones denying don't have strong math students.

No, it's quite the opposite. It's very clear what happened with VMPI - it's well documented - and some people are misrepresenting it for ulterior purposes.

-strong math parent to strong math kids

Well I don’t know what to tell you. My 5th grader has fewer options to accelerate (and has to jump through more hoops) than my 8th grader did. That is a FACT. We are making 5th grade math selections (for 6th) as I type this.

And that has nothing to do with VMPI which never even put out a draft and is now dead.

But that’s the direction it was going. Don’t pee in my face and tell me it’s raining. Again, I didn’t vote for Youngkin but this is one silver lining.