New Covid study from UK shows brain damage - what do you make of this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Neuroscientist here. So far I’ve only read the abstract. I’ll have to look for the full text version on a computer in the next few days. Does anyone who has read the full test know whether the participants in this study all experienced hyposmia or anosmia as a result of infection? Like was that a criterion for inclusion in the study? All of the brain areas the researchers looked at are part of the central olfactory pathways. Based on what we know so far omicron does not seem to cause hyposmia or anosmia at the same rate as previous variants. I am not convinced that results from studies using participants infected with earlier variants can be generalized to omicron which may not invade organ systems to the same extent.

My whole family just had Covid and none of us (5 people) experiences more than very temporary hyposmia due to congestion , and certainly none of us experienced anosmia which is very distinct (total absence of smell). I think this is typical for many people who have been infected very recently or will be infected soon. I’m not sure we need to panic as these effects on the brain may be unique to those who experienced olfactory symptoms when infected with Covid.

In general I am not sure anyone can realistically avoid negative neuropsychological effects from this pandemic whether infected or not. Social isolation and loneliness have very real detrimental effects on the brain and on cognition. Perhaps even more so during critical developmental periods. Never mind the stress that is caused by constant uncertainty. None of us are going to come out of this scot free in terms of neurobiological and epigenetic markers. Even if you think you are handling it all just fine — your brain and body know better.

We don’t live in a risk free world. We all bear the marks of living on this planet and have to weigh the costs and benefits of different decisions that can be made at this time. I am not advocating for a “who cares” approach to Covid, by any means. But the reality is that this is going to affect all of us negatively in some way and that different people may make different decisions in light of the evidence. I am not convinced that the potential effects Covid has had on my brain or my children’s brains is necessarily worse than the effects of being out of school and away from peers, not participating in activities, etc for two years.

Being a human being on planet Earth involves risk. We cannot run and hide from all of it. All we can do is mitigate it the best we can and not beat ourselves up if bad things happen anyway.

It reads as though they had already collected a lot of brain scans pre covid, and then identified all of those in an age band who were diagnosed with covid and selected a matched group of peers who didn’t have covid. So they didn’t use a specific symptom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neuroscientist here. So far I’ve only read the abstract. I’ll have to look for the full text version on a computer in the next few days. Does anyone who has read the full test know whether the participants in this study all experienced hyposmia or anosmia as a result of infection? Like was that a criterion for inclusion in the study? All of the brain areas the researchers looked at are part of the central olfactory pathways. Based on what we know so far omicron does not seem to cause hyposmia or anosmia at the same rate as previous variants. I am not convinced that results from studies using participants infected with earlier variants can be generalized to omicron which may not invade organ systems to the same extent.

My whole family just had Covid and none of us (5 people) experiences more than very temporary hyposmia due to congestion , and certainly none of us experienced anosmia which is very distinct (total absence of smell). I think this is typical for many people who have been infected very recently or will be infected soon. I’m not sure we need to panic as these effects on the brain may be unique to those who experienced olfactory symptoms when infected with Covid.

In general I am not sure anyone can realistically avoid negative neuropsychological effects from this pandemic whether infected or not. Social isolation and loneliness have very real detrimental effects on the brain and on cognition. Perhaps even more so during critical developmental periods. Never mind the stress that is caused by constant uncertainty. None of us are going to come out of this scot free in terms of neurobiological and epigenetic markers. Even if you think you are handling it all just fine — your brain and body know better.

We don’t live in a risk free world. We all bear the marks of living on this planet and have to weigh the costs and benefits of different decisions that can be made at this time. I am not advocating for a “who cares” approach to Covid, by any means. But the reality is that this is going to affect all of us negatively in some way and that different people may make different decisions in light of the evidence. I am not convinced that the potential effects Covid has had on my brain or my children’s brains is necessarily worse than the effects of being out of school and away from peers, not participating in activities, etc for two years.

Being a human being on planet Earth involves risk. We cannot run and hide from all of it. All we can do is mitigate it the best we can and not beat ourselves up if bad things happen anyway.

Mother of the Long COVID patient. My DC had mild illness without any loss of taste or smell, and yet, DC has real significant cognitive struggles.

You are grasping at straws if you think that not having loss of senses protects you from Long COVID outcomes. There are many, many studies that have come out detailing the myriad of ways the body invades different body tissues and that the virus stays in the body for months even in patients who have mild infection. Like other viruses before it (flu, zika, ebola, HIV, HPV, Herpes), COVID is likely to have long term effects in at least some portion of the population and because of the millions of infected people, even if only 1% or 10% have long term issues, that’s still a ton of people.

It’s not grasping at straws to posit that previous variants that were more likely to produce olfactory symptoms may be more likely to affect olfactory related brain areas. It also stands to reason that people who get Covid after being vaccinated will not experience the same invasion of multiple organ systems. A lot of the data being published right now is from before vaccines were widely available.

We should be concerned but not panicked, based on available evidence. Speaking of evidence, please point me to the studies showing that the virus stays in multiple organs of people who had a mild illness. The only studies. I have seen on that used patients who died from Covid. You can’t look at viral mRNA or RNA on tissues of people who are still alive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think its crap

Based on what? What are your credentials again?

Based on the massive back-pedaling being done on other stories like this one.

So no credentials then. Got it.

[Anonymous]

I did have a bad headache with covid, which made me paranoid, which led me down the rabbit hole, where I found such articles as this one: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33053430/

Evidence provided suggests that the SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins trigger a pro-inflammatory response on brain endothelial cells that may contribute to an altered state of BBB [blood-brain barrier] function. Together, these results are the first to show the direct impact that the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein could have on brain endothelial cells; thereby offering a plausible explanation for the neurological consequences seen in COVID-19 patients.

Another article: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201217154046.htm

S1 protein in SARS-CoV2 and the gp 120 protein in HIV-1 function similarly. They are glycoproteins -- proteins that have a lot of sugars on them, hallmarks of proteins that bind to other receptors. Both these proteins function as the arms and hand for their viruses by grabbing onto other receptors. Both cross the blood-brain barrier and S1, like gp120, is likely toxic to brain tissues.

Unfortunately I could find no research yet on whether vaccination mitigates these effects for those people who do contract breakthrough infections, but the study linked at the beginning of this thread seems to suggest that even mild cases led to brain changes.

[Anonymous]

But what are we supposed to do with this information? My husband and I are vaccinated and boosted, our kindergartener is vaccinated, and we saw no one over Christmas break. My 3yo still got covid (we have no idea how, maybe the park?) and now I have it from him. Load of careful, vaccinated people are getting omicron. I agree it's important for scientists to study this, but anyone who's going to pay attention at this stage was already being careful so it's not going to change anyone's behavior.

[Anonymous]

I hope this turns out not to be true. My kids and I have Covid now. I lost my sense of taste and smell for five days (luckily my kids didn’t). I need to stop clicking on threads like this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But what are we supposed to do with this information? My husband and I are vaccinated and boosted, our kindergartener is vaccinated, and we saw no one over Christmas break. My 3yo still got covid (we have no idea how, maybe the park?) and now I have it from him. Load of careful, vaccinated people are getting omicron. I agree it's important for scientists to study this, but anyone who's going to pay attention at this stage was already being careful so it's not going to change anyone's behavior.

I don’t think people still quite believe that we’re all going to catch it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neuroscientist here. So far I’ve only read the abstract. I’ll have to look for the full text version on a computer in the next few days. Does anyone who has read the full test know whether the participants in this study all experienced hyposmia or anosmia as a result of infection? Like was that a criterion for inclusion in the study? All of the brain areas the researchers looked at are part of the central olfactory pathways. Based on what we know so far omicron does not seem to cause hyposmia or anosmia at the same rate as previous variants. I am not convinced that results from studies using participants infected with earlier variants can be generalized to omicron which may not invade organ systems to the same extent.

My whole family just had Covid and none of us (5 people) experiences more than very temporary hyposmia due to congestion , and certainly none of us experienced anosmia which is very distinct (total absence of smell). I think this is typical for many people who have been infected very recently or will be infected soon. I’m not sure we need to panic as these effects on the brain may be unique to those who experienced olfactory symptoms when infected with Covid.

In general I am not sure anyone can realistically avoid negative neuropsychological effects from this pandemic whether infected or not. Social isolation and loneliness have very real detrimental effects on the brain and on cognition. Perhaps even more so during critical developmental periods. Never mind the stress that is caused by constant uncertainty. None of us are going to come out of this scot free in terms of neurobiological and epigenetic markers. Even if you think you are handling it all just fine — your brain and body know better.

We don’t live in a risk free world. We all bear the marks of living on this planet and have to weigh the costs and benefits of different decisions that can be made at this time. I am not advocating for a “who cares” approach to Covid, by any means. But the reality is that this is going to affect all of us negatively in some way and that different people may make different decisions in light of the evidence. I am not convinced that the potential effects Covid has had on my brain or my children’s brains is necessarily worse than the effects of being out of school and away from peers, not participating in activities, etc for two years.

Being a human being on planet Earth involves risk. We cannot run and hide from all of it. All we can do is mitigate it the best we can and not beat ourselves up if bad things happen anyway.

Mother of the Long COVID patient. My DC had mild illness without any loss of taste or smell, and yet, DC has real significant cognitive struggles.

You are grasping at straws if you think that not having loss of senses protects you from Long COVID outcomes. There are many, many studies that have come out detailing the myriad of ways the body invades different body tissues and that the virus stays in the body for months even in patients who have mild infection. Like other viruses before it (flu, zika, ebola, HIV, HPV, Herpes), COVID is likely to have long term effects in at least some portion of the population and because of the millions of infected people, even if only 1% or 10% have long term issues, that’s still a ton of people.

I'm sorry about your son, PP. We can assume, though, that he was not vaccinated at the time he caught COVID, correct? I wish we knew more about the extent to which that makes long COVID less likely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But what are we supposed to do with this information? My husband and I are vaccinated and boosted, our kindergartener is vaccinated, and we saw no one over Christmas break. My 3yo still got covid (we have no idea how, maybe the park?) and now I have it from him. Load of careful, vaccinated people are getting omicron. I agree it's important for scientists to study this, but anyone who's going to pay attention at this stage was already being careful so it's not going to change anyone's behavior.

I don’t think people still quite believe that we’re all going to catch it.

Agreed. I know so many people currently infected. My DH who is a scientist and studies this says we will be infected and exposed many many many times over our lives, and luckily the vaccines protect us well from serious outcomes. But the vaccines won’t protect us from infection and any infection could lead to any of the problems associated with catching COVID long term (though hopefully they further reduce the odds of those consequences). After our family avoiding this for so long, it’s been a really tough mind shift. We aren’t just letting it rip in our household during this surge, we’ve been laying low. But we know it’s unavoidable and inevitable within the next 6 months.

[Anonymous]

The article seems to be a few months old - so the people studied were infected with earlier and possibly more severe strains of Covid back in 2020/early 2021 before vaccines. We know that the original Covid was killing and hospitalizing people at a higher rate. How do we know that Omicron infection is going to have the same risks for brain damage as the OG Covid strain(s)? I’m assuming none of the people studied were fully vaccinated either, as the UK spread out the doses a lot more than the US - I think 12-14 weeks instead of the US 3 weeks-40 days. If you caught Covid while vaccinated and never experienced the loss of sense of smell/taste, what would your brain scans look like then? Don’t get me wrong, it sounds like potentially serious findings if you caught Covid early on and lost sense of smell. But everyone I know who’s getting it now isn’t experiencing that symptom apart from very temporarily due to congestion. Also just an anecdote, I know 2 people who say they have long Covid and they were both infected in 2020 (one in April 2020 and one in December 2020) pre-vaccines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neuroscientist here. So far I’ve only read the abstract. I’ll have to look for the full text version on a computer in the next few days. Does anyone who has read the full test know whether the participants in this study all experienced hyposmia or anosmia as a result of infection? Like was that a criterion for inclusion in the study? All of the brain areas the researchers looked at are part of the central olfactory pathways. Based on what we know so far omicron does not seem to cause hyposmia or anosmia at the same rate as previous variants. I am not convinced that results from studies using participants infected with earlier variants can be generalized to omicron which may not invade organ systems to the same extent.

My whole family just had Covid and none of us (5 people) experiences more than very temporary hyposmia due to congestion , and certainly none of us experienced anosmia which is very distinct (total absence of smell). I think this is typical for many people who have been infected very recently or will be infected soon. I’m not sure we need to panic as these effects on the brain may be unique to those who experienced olfactory symptoms when infected with Covid.

In general I am not sure anyone can realistically avoid negative neuropsychological effects from this pandemic whether infected or not. Social isolation and loneliness have very real detrimental effects on the brain and on cognition. Perhaps even more so during critical developmental periods. Never mind the stress that is caused by constant uncertainty. None of us are going to come out of this scot free in terms of neurobiological and epigenetic markers. Even if you think you are handling it all just fine — your brain and body know better.

We don’t live in a risk free world. We all bear the marks of living on this planet and have to weigh the costs and benefits of different decisions that can be made at this time. I am not advocating for a “who cares” approach to Covid, by any means. But the reality is that this is going to affect all of us negatively in some way and that different people may make different decisions in light of the evidence. I am not convinced that the potential effects Covid has had on my brain or my children’s brains is necessarily worse than the effects of being out of school and away from peers, not participating in activities, etc for two years.

Being a human being on planet Earth involves risk. We cannot run and hide from all of it. All we can do is mitigate it the best we can and not beat ourselves up if bad things happen anyway.

I experienced a complete loss of smell, as did my husband, and we are both in cognitively demanding jobs, and I am quite sure neither of us are now brain damaged.

Not saying you are, but there is truly no way for you to know that without having a brain scan. Most people who have less gray matter after infection aren’t noticing cognitive decline immediately. And the brain compensates in other ways, since some other area may be impacted now or down the road, or never. The British IQ study showed that people with mild Covid lost on average two IQ points, but that doesn’t mean everyone does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neuroscientist here. So far I’ve only read the abstract. I’ll have to look for the full text version on a computer in the next few days. Does anyone who has read the full test know whether the participants in this study all experienced hyposmia or anosmia as a result of infection? Like was that a criterion for inclusion in the study? All of the brain areas the researchers looked at are part of the central olfactory pathways. Based on what we know so far omicron does not seem to cause hyposmia or anosmia at the same rate as previous variants. I am not convinced that results from studies using participants infected with earlier variants can be generalized to omicron which may not invade organ systems to the same extent.

My whole family just had Covid and none of us (5 people) experiences more than very temporary hyposmia due to congestion , and certainly none of us experienced anosmia which is very distinct (total absence of smell). I think this is typical for many people who have been infected very recently or will be infected soon. I’m not sure we need to panic as these effects on the brain may be unique to those who experienced olfactory symptoms when infected with Covid.

In general I am not sure anyone can realistically avoid negative neuropsychological effects from this pandemic whether infected or not. Social isolation and loneliness have very real detrimental effects on the brain and on cognition. Perhaps even more so during critical developmental periods. Never mind the stress that is caused by constant uncertainty. None of us are going to come out of this scot free in terms of neurobiological and epigenetic markers. Even if you think you are handling it all just fine — your brain and body know better.

We don’t live in a risk free world. We all bear the marks of living on this planet and have to weigh the costs and benefits of different decisions that can be made at this time. I am not advocating for a “who cares” approach to Covid, by any means. But the reality is that this is going to affect all of us negatively in some way and that different people may make different decisions in light of the evidence. I am not convinced that the potential effects Covid has had on my brain or my children’s brains is necessarily worse than the effects of being out of school and away from peers, not participating in activities, etc for two years.

Being a human being on planet Earth involves risk. We cannot run and hide from all of it. All we can do is mitigate it the best we can and not beat ourselves up if bad things happen anyway.

Mother of the Long COVID patient. My DC had mild illness without any loss of taste or smell, and yet, DC has real significant cognitive struggles.

You are grasping at straws if you think that not having loss of senses protects you from Long COVID outcomes. There are many, many studies that have come out detailing the myriad of ways the body invades different body tissues and that the virus stays in the body for months even in patients who have mild infection. Like other viruses before it (flu, zika, ebola, HIV, HPV, Herpes), COVID is likely to have long term effects in at least some portion of the population and because of the millions of infected people, even if only 1% or 10% have long term issues, that’s still a ton of people.

It’s not grasping at straws to posit that previous variants that were more likely to produce olfactory symptoms may be more likely to affect olfactory related brain areas. It also stands to reason that people who get Covid after being vaccinated will not experience the same invasion of multiple organ systems. A lot of the data being published right now is from before vaccines were widely available.

We should be concerned but not panicked, based on available evidence. Speaking of evidence, please point me to the studies showing that the virus stays in multiple organs of people who had a mild illness. The only studies. I have seen on that used patients who died from Covid. You can’t look at viral mRNA or RNA on tissues of people who are still alive.

The study that showed the persistence in the organs did include people that had mild cases. They died of something else and were autopsied. What was noticeably lacking was signs of inflammation despite signs of Covid, so many question if it will be lying dormant for years and possibly reactivated. Or not. I wish they had checked for Lewy bodies on those patients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neuroscientist here. So far I’ve only read the abstract. I’ll have to look for the full text version on a computer in the next few days. Does anyone who has read the full test know whether the participants in this study all experienced hyposmia or anosmia as a result of infection? Like was that a criterion for inclusion in the study? All of the brain areas the researchers looked at are part of the central olfactory pathways. Based on what we know so far omicron does not seem to cause hyposmia or anosmia at the same rate as previous variants. I am not convinced that results from studies using participants infected with earlier variants can be generalized to omicron which may not invade organ systems to the same extent.

My whole family just had Covid and none of us (5 people) experiences more than very temporary hyposmia due to congestion , and certainly none of us experienced anosmia which is very distinct (total absence of smell). I think this is typical for many people who have been infected very recently or will be infected soon. I’m not sure we need to panic as these effects on the brain may be unique to those who experienced olfactory symptoms when infected with Covid.

In general I am not sure anyone can realistically avoid negative neuropsychological effects from this pandemic whether infected or not. Social isolation and loneliness have very real detrimental effects on the brain and on cognition. Perhaps even more so during critical developmental periods. Never mind the stress that is caused by constant uncertainty. None of us are going to come out of this scot free in terms of neurobiological and epigenetic markers. Even if you think you are handling it all just fine — your brain and body know better.

We don’t live in a risk free world. We all bear the marks of living on this planet and have to weigh the costs and benefits of different decisions that can be made at this time. I am not advocating for a “who cares” approach to Covid, by any means. But the reality is that this is going to affect all of us negatively in some way and that different people may make different decisions in light of the evidence. I am not convinced that the potential effects Covid has had on my brain or my children’s brains is necessarily worse than the effects of being out of school and away from peers, not participating in activities, etc for two years.

Being a human being on planet Earth involves risk. We cannot run and hide from all of it. All we can do is mitigate it the best we can and not beat ourselves up if bad things happen anyway.

Mother of the Long COVID patient. My DC had mild illness without any loss of taste or smell, and yet, DC has real significant cognitive struggles.

You are grasping at straws if you think that not having loss of senses protects you from Long COVID outcomes. There are many, many studies that have come out detailing the myriad of ways the body invades different body tissues and that the virus stays in the body for months even in patients who have mild infection. Like other viruses before it (flu, zika, ebola, HIV, HPV, Herpes), COVID is likely to have long term effects in at least some portion of the population and because of the millions of infected people, even if only 1% or 10% have long term issues, that’s still a ton of people.

It’s not grasping at straws to posit that previous variants that were more likely to produce olfactory symptoms may be more likely to affect olfactory related brain areas. It also stands to reason that people who get Covid after being vaccinated will not experience the same invasion of multiple organ systems. A lot of the data being published right now is from before vaccines were widely available.

We should be concerned but not panicked, based on available evidence. Speaking of evidence, please point me to the studies showing that the virus stays in multiple organs of people who had a mild illness. The only studies. I have seen on that used patients who died from Covid. You can’t look at viral mRNA or RNA on tissues of people who are still alive.

The study that showed the persistence in the organs did include people that had mild cases. They died of something else and were autopsied. What was noticeably lacking was signs of inflammation despite signs of Covid, so many question if it will be lying dormant for years and possibly reactivated. Or not. I wish they had checked for Lewy bodies on those patients.

You should catch up on your reading, neuroscientist….

“ We show that
SARS-CoV-2 is widely distributed, even among patients who died with asymptomatic to
mild COVID-19, and that virus replication is present in multiple pulmonary and
extrapulmonary tissues early in infection. Further, we detected persistent SARS-CoV-2
RNA in multiple anatomic sites, including regions throughout the brain, for up to 230 days
following symptom onset. Despite extensive distribution of SARS-CoV-2 in the body, we
observed a paucity of inflammation or direct viral cytopathology outside of the lungs.
Our data prove that SARS-CoV-2 causes systemic infection and can persist in the body for
months.”

more:

“ We show SARS-CoV-2 disseminates across the human body and brain early in infection
268 at high levels, and provide evidence of virus replication at multiple extrapulmonary sites during
269 the first week following symptom onset. We detected sgRNA in at least one tissue in over half of
270 cases (14/27) beyond D14, suggesting that prolonged viral replication may occur in extra-
271 pulmonary tissues as late as D99.”

and

“ Finally, a major contribution of our work is a greater understanding of the duration and
330 locations at which SARS-CoV-2 can persist. While the respiratory tract was the most common
331 location in which SARS-CoV-2 RNA tends to linger, ≥50% of late cases also had persistence in
332 the myocardium, thoracic cavity lymph nodes, tongue, peripheral nerves, ocular tissue, and in all
333 sampled areas of the brain, except the dura mater. Interestingly, despite having much lower
334 levels of SARS-CoV-2 in early cases compared to respiratory tissues, we found similar levels
335 between pulmonary and the extrapulmonary tissue categories in late cases. This less efficient
336 viral clearance in extrapulmonary tissues is perhaps related to a less robust innate and adaptive
337 immune response outside the respiratory tract.
338 We detected sgRNA in tissue of over 60% of the cohort. While less definitive than viral
339 culture23,24, multiple studies have shown that sgRNA levels correlate with acute infection and can

340 be detected in respiratory samples of immunocompromised patients experiencing prolonged
341 infection24. These data coupled with ISH suggest that SARS-CoV-2 can replicate within tissue
342 for over 3 months after infection in some individuals, with RNA failing to clear from multiple
343 compartments for up to D230. This persistence of viral RNA and sgRNA may represent infection
344 with defective virus, which has been described in persistent infection with measles virus –
345 another single-strand enveloped RNA virus—in cases of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis25.
346 The mechanisms contributing to PASC are still being investigated; however, ongoing
347 systemic and local inflammatory responses have been proposed to play a role5. Our data provide
348 evidence for delayed viral clearance, but do not support significant inflammation outside of the
349 respiratory tract even among patients who died months after symptom onset. Understanding the
350 mechanisms by which SARS-CoV-2 persists and the cellular and subcellular host responses to
351 viral persistence promises to improve the understanding and clinical management of PASC.”

Cite: SARS-CoV-2 infection and persistence throughout the human body and brain
DanielChertow ([e-mail]). 12/20/21
https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-1139035/v1_covered.pdf?c=1640020576

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neuroscientist here. So far I’ve only read the abstract. I’ll have to look for the full text version on a computer in the next few days. Does anyone who has read the full test know whether the participants in this study all experienced hyposmia or anosmia as a result of infection? Like was that a criterion for inclusion in the study? All of the brain areas the researchers looked at are part of the central olfactory pathways. Based on what we know so far omicron does not seem to cause hyposmia or anosmia at the same rate as previous variants. I am not convinced that results from studies using participants infected with earlier variants can be generalized to omicron which may not invade organ systems to the same extent.

My whole family just had Covid and none of us (5 people) experiences more than very temporary hyposmia due to congestion , and certainly none of us experienced anosmia which is very distinct (total absence of smell). I think this is typical for many people who have been infected very recently or will be infected soon. I’m not sure we need to panic as these effects on the brain may be unique to those who experienced olfactory symptoms when infected with Covid.

In general I am not sure anyone can realistically avoid negative neuropsychological effects from this pandemic whether infected or not. Social isolation and loneliness have very real detrimental effects on the brain and on cognition. Perhaps even more so during critical developmental periods. Never mind the stress that is caused by constant uncertainty. None of us are going to come out of this scot free in terms of neurobiological and epigenetic markers. Even if you think you are handling it all just fine — your brain and body know better.

We don’t live in a risk free world. We all bear the marks of living on this planet and have to weigh the costs and benefits of different decisions that can be made at this time. I am not advocating for a “who cares” approach to Covid, by any means. But the reality is that this is going to affect all of us negatively in some way and that different people may make different decisions in light of the evidence. I am not convinced that the potential effects Covid has had on my brain or my children’s brains is necessarily worse than the effects of being out of school and away from peers, not participating in activities, etc for two years.

Being a human being on planet Earth involves risk. We cannot run and hide from all of it. All we can do is mitigate it the best we can and not beat ourselves up if bad things happen anyway.

Mother of the Long COVID patient. My DC had mild illness without any loss of taste or smell, and yet, DC has real significant cognitive struggles.

You are grasping at straws if you think that not having loss of senses protects you from Long COVID outcomes. There are many, many studies that have come out detailing the myriad of ways the body invades different body tissues and that the virus stays in the body for months even in patients who have mild infection. Like other viruses before it (flu, zika, ebola, HIV, HPV, Herpes), COVID is likely to have long term effects in at least some portion of the population and because of the millions of infected people, even if only 1% or 10% have long term issues, that’s still a ton of people.

It’s not grasping at straws to posit that previous variants that were more likely to produce olfactory symptoms may be more likely to affect olfactory related brain areas. It also stands to reason that people who get Covid after being vaccinated will not experience the same invasion of multiple organ systems. A lot of the data being published right now is from before vaccines were widely available.

We should be concerned but not panicked, based on available evidence. Speaking of evidence, please point me to the studies showing that the virus stays in multiple organs of people who had a mild illness. The only studies. I have seen on that used patients who died from Covid. You can’t look at viral mRNA or RNA on tissues of people who are still alive.

The study that showed the persistence in the organs did include people that had mild cases. They died of something else and were autopsied. What was noticeably lacking was signs of inflammation despite signs of Covid, so many question if it will be lying dormant for years and possibly reactivated. Or not. I wish they had checked for Lewy bodies on those patients.

You should catch up on your reading, neuroscientist….

“ We show that
SARS-CoV-2 is widely distributed, even among patients who died with asymptomatic to
mild COVID-19, and that virus replication is present in multiple pulmonary and
extrapulmonary tissues early in infection. Further, we detected persistent SARS-CoV-2
RNA in multiple anatomic sites, including regions throughout the brain, for up to 230 days
following symptom onset. Despite extensive distribution of SARS-CoV-2 in the body, we
observed a paucity of inflammation or direct viral cytopathology outside of the lungs.
Our data prove that SARS-CoV-2 causes systemic infection and can persist in the body for
months.”

more:

“ We show SARS-CoV-2 disseminates across the human body and brain early in infection
268 at high levels, and provide evidence of virus replication at multiple extrapulmonary sites during
269 the first week following symptom onset. We detected sgRNA in at least one tissue in over half of
270 cases (14/27) beyond D14, suggesting that prolonged viral replication may occur in extra-
271 pulmonary tissues as late as D99.”

and

“ Finally, a major contribution of our work is a greater understanding of the duration and
330 locations at which SARS-CoV-2 can persist. While the respiratory tract was the most common
331 location in which SARS-CoV-2 RNA tends to linger, ≥50% of late cases also had persistence in
332 the myocardium, thoracic cavity lymph nodes, tongue, peripheral nerves, ocular tissue, and in all
333 sampled areas of the brain, except the dura mater. Interestingly, despite having much lower
334 levels of SARS-CoV-2 in early cases compared to respiratory tissues, we found similar levels
335 between pulmonary and the extrapulmonary tissue categories in late cases. This less efficient
336 viral clearance in extrapulmonary tissues is perhaps related to a less robust innate and adaptive
337 immune response outside the respiratory tract.
338 We detected sgRNA in tissue of over 60% of the cohort. While less definitive than viral
339 culture23,24, multiple studies have shown that sgRNA levels correlate with acute infection and can

340 be detected in respiratory samples of immunocompromised patients experiencing prolonged
341 infection24. These data coupled with ISH suggest that SARS-CoV-2 can replicate within tissue
342 for over 3 months after infection in some individuals, with RNA failing to clear from multiple
343 compartments for up to D230. This persistence of viral RNA and sgRNA may represent infection
344 with defective virus, which has been described in persistent infection with measles virus –
345 another single-strand enveloped RNA virus—in cases of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis25.
346 The mechanisms contributing to PASC are still being investigated; however, ongoing
347 systemic and local inflammatory responses have been proposed to play a role5. Our data provide
348 evidence for delayed viral clearance, but do not support significant inflammation outside of the
349 respiratory tract even among patients who died months after symptom onset. Understanding the
350 mechanisms by which SARS-CoV-2 persists and the cellular and subcellular host responses to
351 viral persistence promises to improve the understanding and clinical management of PASC.”

Cite: SARS-CoV-2 infection and persistence throughout the human body and brain
DanielChertow ([e-mail]). 12/20/21
https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-1139035/v1_covered.pdf?c=1640020576

Funny how you chose not to copy the info about the patient cohort. Most of the cases were from before vaccines were available and all of them were hospitalized and died of Covid. Extended Data Table 2 shows that the vast majority needed to be intubated.

But go ahead and explain how this can be generalized to healthy, vaccinated adults with mild Covid. You can read all the studies you want but it won’t be worth much if you can’t properly interpret the findings.

[Anonymous]

Take away is - avoid getting COVID.

If you already have it or had it, there is nothing much you can do. Maybe start eating more flaxseed and anti-inflammatory foods like turmeric and doing more sudoku.