Question about bikes in bike lanes and right hand turns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was driving on Irving st NW a few hours ago, and also had a crash involving a cyclist.

The street has a dedicated, marked bike lane on the right side of the roadway. I came to a 4-way stop sign, and was going to turn right. I had my turn signal on and was sitting there for a moment because the car to my left had already stopped for the stop sign on their side, and had started to move across the intersection, so I had to wait for a bit longer than a normal stop before I could turn right.

As I started to pull away from the stop sign and make the turn, this I hear a loud shout, and then a thump, and look over my right shoulder and this guy on a bike was all the way up against the rear right side of my car and just slammed his hand down on the back window.

I stopped right there in the middle of the turn because I didn’t realize right away what had just happened. For a second I thought I’d run over him, but then realized I couldn’t have. And then he pedals around beside and is yelling about how I almost ran over him. Then he kept going. He looked unharmed to me.


Then I started thinking about what had to have happened, and if I was already stopped, and had my signal on and was turning, how could it be my fault? Don’t I have a right of way since I’m already at the stop sign? Is a cyclist allowed to pass a car in front of them that is turning right at a stop sign, if the car is already at the stop sign and starting to make a turn? The only possible way he could have been trying to go around me mid-turn was if he hadn’t stopped at the stop sign, and bikers are supposed to stop at stop signs. So I don’t see how any of this could’ve been me “almost running over him”.

Who is in the wrong here?

You were. Just another oblivious driver behind the wheel not paying attention to your surroundings. People like you are the bane of people like me. The exact same scenario has happened to me several times. I’ve almost run into the sides of cars on several occasions because some idiot turns in front of me. Most cyclists don’t do stop signs. We’re not a car so we’re not required to and it takes too much energy to stop at every block and then get back up to speed again. So we’re trying to maintain our cadence and momentum and when you stop and then turn you literally force us to run into you if we don’t take evasive action. You’re lucky he just pounded on your window. I would’ve smashed your car with my lock.

You are 100% wrong. You are required to stop at a stop sign. When you blow one and get hit, you’ll be charged.

It’s accepted practice that bikes don’t have to stop for stop signs or red lights. I don’t care what the law says. If it’s a law and almost no one follows it then it’s not really a real law. It might be on the books but in reality cyclists do not have to stop for stop signs or red lights. Don’t like that ? Too bad so sad get over it. The whole rest of the world basically disagrees with you so you’re the one in the wrong here regardless of whatever the law says.

WOW! I hope you are never in acident and hopes someone else's insurancce will cover your injuries..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always assume cyclists won’t stop because I assume all cyclists are a$$holes. My apologies to the responsible cyclists on this thread. I will work on my bias, but I’m still going to assume you won’t stop just in case…

Not stopping doesn’t make me an a$$hole any more than you driving a car makes you an a$$hole.

Do better.

If you don’t stop and hit me, a pedestrian, you are indeed an a$$hole and my lawyer will bring the full weight of the law (which says you have to stop) to bear. Do better.

Unfortunately, if you're a driver who hits a pedestrian, the legal consequences for you are almost always zippo, unless you were driving drunk. Even a civil suit generally doesn't result in anything, especially in Maryland.

https://www.trutv.com/shows/adam-ruins-everything/articles/adam-ruins-murder

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cyclists are a law onto themselves.

I've seen cars stopped at a red light waiting their turn for the light to turn green so they can cross the intersection and cyclists just cutting through the cars and stopping right in front of the first car in line. Then when the light changes to green the cyclists slows down the cars in crossing the intersection. Shouldn't the cyclists have to get in line just like the cars waiting for the green light?

No. That particular thing those bicyclists are doing is fine.

But it still not fair or safe.

“Waaaaahhh! Waaahhhh! It’s not FAIR!”

You sound like a kindergartner.

Wow, you sound really mature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cyclists are a law onto themselves.

I've seen cars stopped at a red light waiting their turn for the light to turn green so they can cross the intersection and cyclists just cutting through the cars and stopping right in front of the first car in line. Then when the light changes to green the cyclists slows down the cars in crossing the intersection. Shouldn't the cyclists have to get in line just like the cars waiting for the green light?

No. That particular thing those bicyclists are doing is fine.

But it still not fair or safe.

It is both fair and safe. (Safe depending on where/how you do it, that is.) When departments of transportation explicitly include it in the design of the intersection, it's called a bike box.

https://nacto.org/publication/urban-bikeway-design-guide/intersection-treatments/bike-boxes/

Bike box benefits

-Increases visibility of bicyclists.
-Reduces signal delay for bicyclists.
-Facilitates bicyclist left turn positioning at intersections during red signal indication. This only applies to bike boxes that extend across the entire intersection.
-Facilitates the transition from a right-side bike lane to a left-side bike lane during red signal indication. This only applies to bike boxes that extend across the entire intersection.
-Helps prevent ‘right-hook’ conflicts with turning vehicles at the start of the green indication.
-Provides priority for bicyclists at signalized bicycle boulevard crossings of major streets.
Groups bicyclists together to clear an intersection quickly, minimizing impediment to transit or other traffic.
Pedestrians benefit from reduced vehicle encroachment into the crosswalk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cyclists are a law onto themselves.

I've seen cars stopped at a red light waiting their turn for the light to turn green so they can cross the intersection and cyclists just cutting through the cars and stopping right in front of the first car in line. Then when the light changes to green the cyclists slows down the cars in crossing the intersection. Shouldn't the cyclists have to get in line just like the cars waiting for the green light?

No. That particular thing those bicyclists are doing is fine.

But it still not fair or safe.

It is both fair and safe. (Safe depending on where/how you do it, that is.) When departments of transportation explicitly include it in the design of the intersection, it's called a bike box.

https://nacto.org/publication/urban-bikeway-design-guide/intersection-treatments/bike-boxes/

Bike box benefits

-Increases visibility of bicyclists.
-Reduces signal delay for bicyclists.
-Facilitates bicyclist left turn positioning at intersections during red signal indication. This only applies to bike boxes that extend across the entire intersection.
-Facilitates the transition from a right-side bike lane to a left-side bike lane during red signal indication. This only applies to bike boxes that extend across the entire intersection.
-Helps prevent ‘right-hook’ conflicts with turning vehicles at the start of the green indication.
-Provides priority for bicyclists at signalized bicycle boulevard crossings of major streets.
Groups bicyclists together to clear an intersection quickly, minimizing impediment to transit or other traffic.
Pedestrians benefit from reduced vehicle encroachment into the crosswalk.

For the first time in my life I'm finally understanding what too much college means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cyclists are a law onto themselves.

I've seen cars stopped at a red light waiting their turn for the light to turn green so they can cross the intersection and cyclists just cutting through the cars and stopping right in front of the first car in line. Then when the light changes to green the cyclists slows down the cars in crossing the intersection. Shouldn't the cyclists have to get in line just like the cars waiting for the green light?

No. That particular thing those bicyclists are doing is fine.

But it still not fair or safe.

It is both fair and safe. (Safe depending on where/how you do it, that is.) When departments of transportation explicitly include it in the design of the intersection, it's called a bike box.

https://nacto.org/publication/urban-bikeway-design-guide/intersection-treatments/bike-boxes/

Bike box benefits

-Increases visibility of bicyclists.
-Reduces signal delay for bicyclists.
-Facilitates bicyclist left turn positioning at intersections during red signal indication. This only applies to bike boxes that extend across the entire intersection.
-Facilitates the transition from a right-side bike lane to a left-side bike lane during red signal indication. This only applies to bike boxes that extend across the entire intersection.
-Helps prevent ‘right-hook’ conflicts with turning vehicles at the start of the green indication.
-Provides priority for bicyclists at signalized bicycle boulevard crossings of major streets.
Groups bicyclists together to clear an intersection quickly, minimizing impediment to transit or other traffic.
Pedestrians benefit from reduced vehicle encroachment into the crosswalk.

PP here. Sorry, but it's still not safe.

By cutting in front of a vehicle that has stopped AT THE LINE, the cyclist while waiting for the light to change has crossed the stop line. The cyclist is either in the junction or is in the way of the pedestrians using the crosswalk. I'm basing my opinion from what has happened to me many times not from something I've copied and pasted online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cyclists are a law onto themselves.

I've seen cars stopped at a red light waiting their turn for the light to turn green so they can cross the intersection and cyclists just cutting through the cars and stopping right in front of the first car in line. Then when the light changes to green the cyclists slows down the cars in crossing the intersection. Shouldn't the cyclists have to get in line just like the cars waiting for the green light?

No. That particular thing those bicyclists are doing is fine.

But it still not fair or safe.

It is both fair and safe. (Safe depending on where/how you do it, that is.) When departments of transportation explicitly include it in the design of the intersection, it's called a bike box.

https://nacto.org/publication/urban-bikeway-design-guide/intersection-treatments/bike-boxes/

Bike box benefits

-Increases visibility of bicyclists.
-Reduces signal delay for bicyclists.
-Facilitates bicyclist left turn positioning at intersections during red signal indication. This only applies to bike boxes that extend across the entire intersection.
-Facilitates the transition from a right-side bike lane to a left-side bike lane during red signal indication. This only applies to bike boxes that extend across the entire intersection.
-Helps prevent ‘right-hook’ conflicts with turning vehicles at the start of the green indication.
-Provides priority for bicyclists at signalized bicycle boulevard crossings of major streets.
Groups bicyclists together to clear an intersection quickly, minimizing impediment to transit or other traffic.
Pedestrians benefit from reduced vehicle encroachment into the crosswalk.

PP here. Sorry, but it's still not safe.

By cutting in front of a vehicle that has stopped AT THE LINE, the cyclist while waiting for the light to change has crossed the stop line. The cyclist is either in the junction or is in the way of the pedestrians using the crosswalk. I'm basing my opinion from what has happened to me many times not from something I've copied and pasted online.

Me again. I didn't originally see the Bike Box illustrations in your comment. However, they are the exception not the rule. From what I've seen, cyclists cut to the front of the line whether there's a Bike Box or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was driving on Irving st NW a few hours ago, and also had a crash involving a cyclist.

The street has a dedicated, marked bike lane on the right side of the roadway. I came to a 4-way stop sign, and was going to turn right. I had my turn signal on and was sitting there for a moment because the car to my left had already stopped for the stop sign on their side, and had started to move across the intersection, so I had to wait for a bit longer than a normal stop before I could turn right.

As I started to pull away from the stop sign and make the turn, this I hear a loud shout, and then a thump, and look over my right shoulder and this guy on a bike was all the way up against the rear right side of my car and just slammed his hand down on the back window.

I stopped right there in the middle of the turn because I didn’t realize right away what had just happened. For a second I thought I’d run over him, but then realized I couldn’t have. And then he pedals around beside and is yelling about how I almost ran over him. Then he kept going. He looked unharmed to me.


Then I started thinking about what had to have happened, and if I was already stopped, and had my signal on and was turning, how could it be my fault? Don’t I have a right of way since I’m already at the stop sign? Is a cyclist allowed to pass a car in front of them that is turning right at a stop sign, if the car is already at the stop sign and starting to make a turn? The only possible way he could have been trying to go around me mid-turn was if he hadn’t stopped at the stop sign, and bikers are supposed to stop at stop signs. So I don’t see how any of this could’ve been me “almost running over him”.

Who is in the wrong here?

You were. Just another oblivious driver behind the wheel not paying attention to your surroundings. People like you are the bane of people like me. The exact same scenario has happened to me several times. I’ve almost run into the sides of cars on several occasions because some idiot turns in front of me. Most cyclists don’t do stop signs. We’re not a car so we’re not required to and it takes too much energy to stop at every block and then get back up to speed again. So we’re trying to maintain our cadence and momentum and when you stop and then turn you literally force us to run into you if we don’t take evasive action. You’re lucky he just pounded on your window. I would’ve smashed your car with my lock.

I agree that the OP did a couple of things wrong (not merging all the way to the right, not checking to see if she was clear). But please cite the DC law or regulation that supports your position that since a cyclist isn't a car, she isn't required to stop at a stop sign.

+1 I agree that the driver is responsible for not ensuring that the path was clear to make that right and it’s somewhat hard to believe that a cyclist pulling up to a car stopped at an intersection with a right hand turn signal flashing would attempt to draw parallel. That said, cyclists enjoy the rights of a car on the streets but also bear the same responsibilities.

Yes and no. I have the same right to the road as any car. But I don’t bear the same responsibilities. If cyclists had to stop got every stop sign and wait for every red light then there would be no point in riding a bike. It would take too long to get anywhere on a bike and there would be an added physical burden of having to get moving again from a stop every block or every intersection. The whole appeal of a bike is to be able to zip through traffic past the masses of idiots stuck in cars. If you followed the same practices on a bike as car drivers do you’d basically be reducing the benefit of riding a bike to make it the equivalent of using a really slow car + added fatigue. Who would do that? No one.

There's no way this is an actual cyclist. It's a driver who despises cyclists and is intentionally playing the worst stereotype out there to incite opinion against cyclists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cyclists are a law onto themselves.

I've seen cars stopped at a red light waiting their turn for the light to turn green so they can cross the intersection and cyclists just cutting through the cars and stopping right in front of the first car in line. Then when the light changes to green the cyclists slows down the cars in crossing the intersection. Shouldn't the cyclists have to get in line just like the cars waiting for the green light?

No. That particular thing those bicyclists are doing is fine.

But it still not fair or safe.

But is it legal, at least in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Me again. I didn't originally see the Bike Box illustrations in your comment. However, they are the exception not the rule. From what I've seen, cyclists cut to the front of the line whether there's a Bike Box or not.

Yes, sometimes some bicyclists go to the front of a line of cars. It's legal (whether or not there's a bike box), it's safe, and it's fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There's no way this is an actual cyclist. It's a driver who despises cyclists and is intentionally playing the worst stereotype out there to incite opinion against cyclists.

Yeah, I think so too. There's one particular bicyclist-hating poster who habitually posts bicyclist-hate on threads on DCUM, who insists that the law does not require bicyclists to stop at stop signs.

Now, in some places, it's true that the law does not require bicyclists to stop at stop signs. But the law in DC, Virginia, and Maryland does require bicyclists to stop at stop signs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There's no way this is an actual cyclist. It's a driver who despises cyclists and is intentionally playing the worst stereotype out there to incite opinion against cyclists.

Yeah, I think so too. There's one particular bicyclist-hating poster who habitually posts bicyclist-hate on threads on DCUM, who insists that the law does not require bicyclists to stop at stop signs.

Now, in some places, it's true that the law does not require bicyclists to stop at stop signs. But the law in DC, Virginia, and Maryland does require bicyclists to stop at stop signs.

DP (have posted in this thread before, but I’m not the poster being quoted)

I’m a cyclist who mostly hates other cyclists - especially your types. The sort of goodie-two shoes “I follow the laws that are applicable to bikes and practicable when it suits me”…. Blehhhh. You sound like Dudley Doowright and Sheldon Cooper’s lovechild.

I’m a libertine and an antagonistic personality. I ride like a lunatic and an a-hole in traffic because I get a kick out of it. That’s the honest truth and I don’t care who knows it or who it pisses off. I run red lights in traffic. I blow stop signs. I deliberately buzz peds. I love shoaling at traffic lights and then catching a whole string of cars behind me. I’ve busted more car windows with my padlock than I have fingers and toes. I like being a dick. On my bike is the only place I’m free to be a jerk to strangers simply because I can. It’s a valuable outlet for me, and I enjoy the hell out of it.

Yes, I’m definitely a cyclist. Would you like to know about my bikes? Would that vet me? What group-set on each bike I ride? Whether SRAM cranksets can work with Shimano derailleurs? How to properly bleed Tektro hydraulic brake lines? How to replace old Avid BB5 pads? What B-screw adjustment does? Why anything Campy sucks? Which disk system uses mineral oil based fluid and which uses DOT-4? Why 1x drivetrains are sweetness? Why only D-bags ride Cervalo? You convinced yet? Should I go on?

I’m definitely a cyclist. I definitely enjoy being an a-hole on my bike. And I definitely hate know-it-all’s like you guys.

I ride because I get to be an outlaw on my bike. And that’s the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
DP (have posted in this thread before, but I’m not the poster being quoted)

I’m a cyclist who mostly hates other cyclists - especially your types. The sort of goodie-two shoes “I follow the laws that are applicable to bikes and practicable when it suits me”…. Blehhhh. You sound like Dudley Doowright and Sheldon Cooper’s lovechild.

I’m a libertine and an antagonistic personality. I ride like a lunatic and an a-hole in traffic because I get a kick out of it. That’s the honest truth and I don’t care who knows it or who it pisses off. I run red lights in traffic. I blow stop signs. I deliberately buzz peds. I love shoaling at traffic lights and then catching a whole string of cars behind me. I’ve busted more car windows with my padlock than I have fingers and toes. I like being a dick. On my bike is the only place I’m free to be a jerk to strangers simply because I can. It’s a valuable outlet for me, and I enjoy the hell out of it.

Yes, I’m definitely a cyclist. Would you like to know about my bikes? Would that vet me? What group-set on each bike I ride? Whether SRAM cranksets can work with Shimano derailleurs? How to properly bleed Tektro hydraulic brake lines? How to replace old Avid BB5 pads? What B-screw adjustment does? Why anything Campy sucks? Which disk system uses mineral oil based fluid and which uses DOT-4? Why 1x drivetrains are sweetness? Why only D-bags ride Cervalo? You convinced yet? Should I go on?

I’m definitely a cyclist. I definitely enjoy being an a-hole on my bike. And I definitely hate know-it-all’s like you guys.

I ride because I get to be an outlaw on my bike. And that’s the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
DP (have posted in this thread before, but I’m not the poster being quoted)

I’m a cyclist who mostly hates other cyclists - especially your types. The sort of goodie-two shoes “I follow the laws that are applicable to bikes and practicable when it suits me”…. Blehhhh. You sound like Dudley Doowright and Sheldon Cooper’s lovechild.

I’m a libertine and an antagonistic personality. I ride like a lunatic and an a-hole in traffic because I get a kick out of it. That’s the honest truth and I don’t care who knows it or who it pisses off. I run red lights in traffic. I blow stop signs. I deliberately buzz peds. I love shoaling at traffic lights and then catching a whole string of cars behind me. I’ve busted more car windows with my padlock than I have fingers and toes. I like being a dick. On my bike is the only place I’m free to be a jerk to strangers simply because I can. It’s a valuable outlet for me, and I enjoy the hell out of it.

Yes, I’m definitely a cyclist. Would you like to know about my bikes? Would that vet me? What group-set on each bike I ride? Whether SRAM cranksets can work with Shimano derailleurs? How to properly bleed Tektro hydraulic brake lines? How to replace old Avid BB5 pads? What B-screw adjustment does? Why anything Campy sucks? Which disk system uses mineral oil based fluid and which uses DOT-4? Why 1x drivetrains are sweetness? Why only D-bags ride Cervalo? You convinced yet? Should I go on?

I’m definitely a cyclist. I definitely enjoy being an a-hole on my bike. And I definitely hate know-it-all’s like you guys.

I ride because I get to be an outlaw on my bike. And that’s the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There's no way this is an actual cyclist. It's a driver who despises cyclists and is intentionally playing the worst stereotype out there to incite opinion against cyclists.

Yeah, I think so too. There's one particular bicyclist-hating poster who habitually posts bicyclist-hate on threads on DCUM, who insists that the law does not require bicyclists to stop at stop signs.

Now, in some places, it's true that the law does not require bicyclists to stop at stop signs. But the law in DC, Virginia, and Maryland does require bicyclists to stop at stop signs.

DP (have posted in this thread before, but I’m not the poster being quoted)

I’m a cyclist who mostly hates other cyclists - especially your types. The sort of goodie-two shoes “I follow the laws that are applicable to bikes and practicable when it suits me”…. Blehhhh. You sound like Dudley Doowright and Sheldon Cooper’s lovechild.

I’m a libertine and an antagonistic personality. I ride like a lunatic and an a-hole in traffic because I get a kick out of it. That’s the honest truth and I don’t care who knows it or who it pisses off. I run red lights in traffic. I blow stop signs. I deliberately buzz peds. I love shoaling at traffic lights and then catching a whole string of cars behind me. I’ve busted more car windows with my padlock than I have fingers and toes. I like being a dick. On my bike is the only place I’m free to be a jerk to strangers simply because I can. It’s a valuable outlet for me, and I enjoy the hell out of it.

Yes, I’m definitely a cyclist. Would you like to know about my bikes? Would that vet me? What group-set on each bike I ride? Whether SRAM cranksets can work with Shimano derailleurs? How to properly bleed Tektro hydraulic brake lines? How to replace old Avid BB5 pads? What B-screw adjustment does? Why anything Campy sucks? Which disk system uses mineral oil based fluid and which uses DOT-4? Why 1x drivetrains are sweetness? Why only D-bags ride Cervalo? You convinced yet? Should I go on?

I’m definitely a cyclist. I definitely enjoy being an a-hole on my bike. And I definitely hate know-it-all’s like you guys.

I ride because I get to be an outlaw on my bike. And that’s the truth.

OMG I’m LMAO!!! I mean, I’m sure I’d hate you on the road, but I respect the honesty hehe! I wish I could do stuff like that and I haven’t ridden a bike in a decade.