Question about bikes in bike lanes and right hand turns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was driving on Irving st NW a few hours ago, and also had a crash involving a cyclist.

The street has a dedicated, marked bike lane on the right side of the roadway. I came to a 4-way stop sign, and was going to turn right. I had my turn signal on and was sitting there for a moment because the car to my left had already stopped for the stop sign on their side, and had started to move across the intersection, so I had to wait for a bit longer than a normal stop before I could turn right.

As I started to pull away from the stop sign and make the turn, this I hear a loud shout, and then a thump, and look over my right shoulder and this guy on a bike was all the way up against the rear right side of my car and just slammed his hand down on the back window.

I stopped right there in the middle of the turn because I didn’t realize right away what had just happened. For a second I thought I’d run over him, but then realized I couldn’t have. And then he pedals around beside and is yelling about how I almost ran over him. Then he kept going. He looked unharmed to me.


Then I started thinking about what had to have happened, and if I was already stopped, and had my signal on and was turning, how could it be my fault? Don’t I have a right of way since I’m already at the stop sign? Is a cyclist allowed to pass a car in front of them that is turning right at a stop sign, if the car is already at the stop sign and starting to make a turn? The only possible way he could have been trying to go around me mid-turn was if he hadn’t stopped at the stop sign, and bikers are supposed to stop at stop signs. So I don’t see how any of this could’ve been me “almost running over him”.

Who is in the wrong here?

You were. Just another oblivious driver behind the wheel not paying attention to your surroundings. People like you are the bane of people like me. The exact same scenario has happened to me several times. I’ve almost run into the sides of cars on several occasions because some idiot turns in front of me. Most cyclists don’t do stop signs. We’re not a car so we’re not required to and it takes too much energy to stop at every block and then get back up to speed again. So we’re trying to maintain our cadence and momentum and when you stop and then turn you literally force us to run into you if we don’t take evasive action. You’re lucky he just pounded on your window. I would’ve smashed your car with my lock.

You are 100% wrong. You are required to stop at a stop sign. When you blow one and get hit, you’ll be charged.

It’s accepted practice that bikes don’t have to stop for stop signs or red lights. I don’t care what the law says. If it’s a law and almost no one follows it then it’s not really a real law. It might be on the books but in reality cyclists do not have to stop for stop signs or red lights. Don’t like that ? Too bad so sad get over it. The whole rest of the world basically disagrees with you so you’re the one in the wrong here regardless of whatever the law says.

As a cyclist who stops at red lights and stop signs I utterly and completely despise you and your Neolithic attitude. You give us all a bad name and increase the danger presented to us by pissed off motorists. And your assessment of the law is what one might expect from a fairly average six year old.

NP. Thank you for this. I want to be supportive of bicyclists (I am one intermittantly myself), but it's hard when we don't call out the egregious behavior in our own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was driving on Irving st NW a few hours ago, and also had a crash involving a cyclist.

The street has a dedicated, marked bike lane on the right side of the roadway. I came to a 4-way stop sign, and was going to turn right. I had my turn signal on and was sitting there for a moment because the car to my left had already stopped for the stop sign on their side, and had started to move across the intersection, so I had to wait for a bit longer than a normal stop before I could turn right.

As I started to pull away from the stop sign and make the turn, this I hear a loud shout, and then a thump, and look over my right shoulder and this guy on a bike was all the way up against the rear right side of my car and just slammed his hand down on the back window.

I stopped right there in the middle of the turn because I didn’t realize right away what had just happened. For a second I thought I’d run over him, but then realized I couldn’t have. And then he pedals around beside and is yelling about how I almost ran over him. Then he kept going. He looked unharmed to me.


Then I started thinking about what had to have happened, and if I was already stopped, and had my signal on and was turning, how could it be my fault? Don’t I have a right of way since I’m already at the stop sign? Is a cyclist allowed to pass a car in front of them that is turning right at a stop sign, if the car is already at the stop sign and starting to make a turn? The only possible way he could have been trying to go around me mid-turn was if he hadn’t stopped at the stop sign, and bikers are supposed to stop at stop signs. So I don’t see how any of this could’ve been me “almost running over him”.

Who is in the wrong here?

You were. Just another oblivious driver behind the wheel not paying attention to your surroundings. People like you are the bane of people like me. The exact same scenario has happened to me several times. I’ve almost run into the sides of cars on several occasions because some idiot turns in front of me. Most cyclists don’t do stop signs. We’re not a car so we’re not required to and it takes too much energy to stop at every block and then get back up to speed again. So we’re trying to maintain our cadence and momentum and when you stop and then turn you literally force us to run into you if we don’t take evasive action. You’re lucky he just pounded on your window. I would’ve smashed your car with my lock.

I agree that the OP did a couple of things wrong (not merging all the way to the right, not checking to see if she was clear). But please cite the DC law or regulation that supports your position that since a cyclist isn't a car, she isn't required to stop at a stop sign.

+1 I agree that the driver is responsible for not ensuring that the path was clear to make that right and it’s somewhat hard to believe that a cyclist pulling up to a car stopped at an intersection with a right hand turn signal flashing would attempt to draw parallel. That said, cyclists enjoy the rights of a car on the streets but also bear the same responsibilities.

Yes and no. I have the same right to the road as any car. But I don’t bear the same responsibilities. If cyclists had to stop got every stop sign and wait for every red light then there would be no point in riding a bike. It would take too long to get anywhere on a bike and there would be an added physical burden of having to get moving again from a stop every block or every intersection. The whole appeal of a bike is to be able to zip through traffic past the masses of idiots stuck in cars. If you followed the same practices on a bike as car drivers do you’d basically be reducing the benefit of riding a bike to make it the equivalent of using a really slow car + added fatigue. Who would do that? No one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was driving on Irving st NW a few hours ago, and also had a crash involving a cyclist.

The street has a dedicated, marked bike lane on the right side of the roadway. I came to a 4-way stop sign, and was going to turn right. I had my turn signal on and was sitting there for a moment because the car to my left had already stopped for the stop sign on their side, and had started to move across the intersection, so I had to wait for a bit longer than a normal stop before I could turn right.

As I started to pull away from the stop sign and make the turn, this I hear a loud shout, and then a thump, and look over my right shoulder and this guy on a bike was all the way up against the rear right side of my car and just slammed his hand down on the back window.

I stopped right there in the middle of the turn because I didn’t realize right away what had just happened. For a second I thought I’d run over him, but then realized I couldn’t have. And then he pedals around beside and is yelling about how I almost ran over him. Then he kept going. He looked unharmed to me.


Then I started thinking about what had to have happened, and if I was already stopped, and had my signal on and was turning, how could it be my fault? Don’t I have a right of way since I’m already at the stop sign? Is a cyclist allowed to pass a car in front of them that is turning right at a stop sign, if the car is already at the stop sign and starting to make a turn? The only possible way he could have been trying to go around me mid-turn was if he hadn’t stopped at the stop sign, and bikers are supposed to stop at stop signs. So I don’t see how any of this could’ve been me “almost running over him”.

Who is in the wrong here?

You were. Just another oblivious driver behind the wheel not paying attention to your surroundings. People like you are the bane of people like me. The exact same scenario has happened to me several times. I’ve almost run into the sides of cars on several occasions because some idiot turns in front of me. Most cyclists don’t do stop signs. We’re not a car so we’re not required to and it takes too much energy to stop at every block and then get back up to speed again. So we’re trying to maintain our cadence and momentum and when you stop and then turn you literally force us to run into you if we don’t take evasive action. You’re lucky he just pounded on your window. I would’ve smashed your car with my lock.

You are 100% wrong. You are required to stop at a stop sign. When you blow one and get hit, you’ll be charged.

It’s accepted practice that bikes don’t have to stop for stop signs or red lights. I don’t care what the law says. If it’s a law and almost no one follows it then it’s not really a real law. It might be on the books but in reality cyclists do not have to stop for stop signs or red lights. Don’t like that ? Too bad so sad get over it. The whole rest of the world basically disagrees with you so you’re the one in the wrong here regardless of whatever the law says.

As a cyclist who stops at red lights and stop signs I utterly and completely despise you and your Neolithic attitude. You give us all a bad name and increase the danger presented to us by pissed off motorists. And your assessment of the law is what one might expect from a fairly average six year old.

You don’t speak for all cyclists so get over yourself with your name calling. You just to want to show off and shout “look at me! I’m stopping!” . This isn’t about your ego. This is about reality. And reality is probably 90% of us don’t waste our time at stop signs or traffic lights. You’re just on some holier than thou crusade kick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was driving on Irving st NW a few hours ago, and also had a crash involving a cyclist.

The street has a dedicated, marked bike lane on the right side of the roadway. I came to a 4-way stop sign, and was going to turn right. I had my turn signal on and was sitting there for a moment because the car to my left had already stopped for the stop sign on their side, and had started to move across the intersection, so I had to wait for a bit longer than a normal stop before I could turn right.

As I started to pull away from the stop sign and make the turn, this I hear a loud shout, and then a thump, and look over my right shoulder and this guy on a bike was all the way up against the rear right side of my car and just slammed his hand down on the back window.

I stopped right there in the middle of the turn because I didn’t realize right away what had just happened. For a second I thought I’d run over him, but then realized I couldn’t have. And then he pedals around beside and is yelling about how I almost ran over him. Then he kept going. He looked unharmed to me.


Then I started thinking about what had to have happened, and if I was already stopped, and had my signal on and was turning, how could it be my fault? Don’t I have a right of way since I’m already at the stop sign? Is a cyclist allowed to pass a car in front of them that is turning right at a stop sign, if the car is already at the stop sign and starting to make a turn? The only possible way he could have been trying to go around me mid-turn was if he hadn’t stopped at the stop sign, and bikers are supposed to stop at stop signs. So I don’t see how any of this could’ve been me “almost running over him”.

Who is in the wrong here?

You were. Just another oblivious driver behind the wheel not paying attention to your surroundings. People like you are the bane of people like me. The exact same scenario has happened to me several times. I’ve almost run into the sides of cars on several occasions because some idiot turns in front of me. Most cyclists don’t do stop signs. We’re not a car so we’re not required to and it takes too much energy to stop at every block and then get back up to speed again. So we’re trying to maintain our cadence and momentum and when you stop and then turn you literally force us to run into you if we don’t take evasive action. You’re lucky he just pounded on your window. I would’ve smashed your car with my lock.

I agree that the OP did a couple of things wrong (not merging all the way to the right, not checking to see if she was clear). But please cite the DC law or regulation that supports your position that since a cyclist isn't a car, she isn't required to stop at a stop sign.

+1 I agree that the driver is responsible for not ensuring that the path was clear to make that right and it’s somewhat hard to believe that a cyclist pulling up to a car stopped at an intersection with a right hand turn signal flashing would attempt to draw parallel. That said, cyclists enjoy the rights of a car on the streets but also bear the same responsibilities.

Yes and no. I have the same right to the road as any car. But I don’t bear the same responsibilities. If cyclists had to stop got every stop sign and wait for every red light then there would be no point in riding a bike. It would take too long to get anywhere on a bike and there would be an added physical burden of having to get moving again from a stop every block or every intersection. The whole appeal of a bike is to be able to zip through traffic past the masses of idiots stuck in cars. If you followed the same practices on a bike as car drivers do you’d basically be reducing the benefit of riding a bike to make it the equivalent of using a really slow car + added fatigue. Who would do that? No one.

You suck and bikers like you are a menace on the roads. If you are the one in the most danger (and of your choosing by the way) take some effing personal responsibility. Just because you decide to play in traffic doesn't make every driver on the road your mom. Do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was driving on Irving st NW a few hours ago, and also had a crash involving a cyclist.

The street has a dedicated, marked bike lane on the right side of the roadway. I came to a 4-way stop sign, and was going to turn right. I had my turn signal on and was sitting there for a moment because the car to my left had already stopped for the stop sign on their side, and had started to move across the intersection, so I had to wait for a bit longer than a normal stop before I could turn right.

As I started to pull away from the stop sign and make the turn, this I hear a loud shout, and then a thump, and look over my right shoulder and this guy on a bike was all the way up against the rear right side of my car and just slammed his hand down on the back window.

I stopped right there in the middle of the turn because I didn’t realize right away what had just happened. For a second I thought I’d run over him, but then realized I couldn’t have. And then he pedals around beside and is yelling about how I almost ran over him. Then he kept going. He looked unharmed to me.


Then I started thinking about what had to have happened, and if I was already stopped, and had my signal on and was turning, how could it be my fault? Don’t I have a right of way since I’m already at the stop sign? Is a cyclist allowed to pass a car in front of them that is turning right at a stop sign, if the car is already at the stop sign and starting to make a turn? The only possible way he could have been trying to go around me mid-turn was if he hadn’t stopped at the stop sign, and bikers are supposed to stop at stop signs. So I don’t see how any of this could’ve been me “almost running over him”.

Who is in the wrong here?

You were. Just another oblivious driver behind the wheel not paying attention to your surroundings. People like you are the bane of people like me. The exact same scenario has happened to me several times. I’ve almost run into the sides of cars on several occasions because some idiot turns in front of me. Most cyclists don’t do stop signs. We’re not a car so we’re not required to and it takes too much energy to stop at every block and then get back up to speed again. So we’re trying to maintain our cadence and momentum and when you stop and then turn you literally force us to run into you if we don’t take evasive action. You’re lucky he just pounded on your window. I would’ve smashed your car with my lock.

I agree that the OP did a couple of things wrong (not merging all the way to the right, not checking to see if she was clear). But please cite the DC law or regulation that supports your position that since a cyclist isn't a car, she isn't required to stop at a stop sign.

+1 I agree that the driver is responsible for not ensuring that the path was clear to make that right and it’s somewhat hard to believe that a cyclist pulling up to a car stopped at an intersection with a right hand turn signal flashing would attempt to draw parallel. That said, cyclists enjoy the rights of a car on the streets but also bear the same responsibilities.

Yes and no. I have the same right to the road as any car. But I don’t bear the same responsibilities. If cyclists had to stop got every stop sign and wait for every red light then there would be no point in riding a bike. It would take too long to get anywhere on a bike and there would be an added physical burden of having to get moving again from a stop every block or every intersection. The whole appeal of a bike is to be able to zip through traffic past the masses of idiots stuck in cars. If you followed the same practices on a bike as car drivers do you’d basically be reducing the benefit of riding a bike to make it the equivalent of using a really slow car + added fatigue. Who would do that? No one.

I would do that and do! (Biking is still faster given road closures, gridlock at rush hour, etc as well as being healthier for me and not requiring that I pay for parking/car insurance.) If there’s no one else around I will only slow down/yield at stop signs but tbh most drivers do this too. I think the key in this situation is that the road was not clear and OP had their blinker on so while OP should definitely have moved over, the cyclist should also have slowed down/stopped at the intersection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As a cyclist who stops at red lights and stop signs….

DP

The only bike+bike crash I’ve ever had was with a self-righteous rider like you who slammed his brakes on unexpectedly at the bottom of a hill because he saw a stop sign. No cross traffic, no cars, no walkers, nothing, just a stop sign and an otherwise empty intersection.

So we’re both coming down the hill and I’m maybe 20 feet behind him and we’re both carrying a good bit of speed, and all the sudden he slams his brakes on for no reason. This was on Lowell Street over near the National Cathedral, btw. Not a hugely steep hill, but a nice long steady one, so we were probably both doing maybe 25-30 or so at this point.

Anyways, he panic-stops, and caused me to run right into him. We both went sprawling out into the middle of the road. Bent my fork, taco’d a $300 wheel, trashed my front shifter and front brake lever, skinned up my hands and my hip, just a total mess that trashed about $500 worth of stuff on my bike.

All because he stopped for no reason.


Just stay off the road. You’re an obstacle.

[Anonymous]

“Just a stop sign.”

[Anonymous]

I always assume cyclists won’t stop because I assume all cyclists are a$$holes. My apologies to the responsible cyclists on this thread. I will work on my bias, but I’m still going to assume you won’t stop just in case…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I always assume cyclists won’t stop because I assume all cyclists are a$$holes. My apologies to the responsible cyclists on this thread. I will work on my bias, but I’m still going to assume you won’t stop just in case…

Not stopping doesn’t make me an a$$hole any more than you driving a car makes you an a$$hole.

Do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was driving on Irving st NW a few hours ago, and also had a crash involving a cyclist.

The street has a dedicated, marked bike lane on the right side of the roadway. I came to a 4-way stop sign, and was going to turn right. I had my turn signal on and was sitting there for a moment because the car to my left had already stopped for the stop sign on their side, and had started to move across the intersection, so I had to wait for a bit longer than a normal stop before I could turn right.

As I started to pull away from the stop sign and make the turn, this I hear a loud shout, and then a thump, and look over my right shoulder and this guy on a bike was all the way up against the rear right side of my car and just slammed his hand down on the back window.

I stopped right there in the middle of the turn because I didn’t realize right away what had just happened. For a second I thought I’d run over him, but then realized I couldn’t have. And then he pedals around beside and is yelling about how I almost ran over him. Then he kept going. He looked unharmed to me.


Then I started thinking about what had to have happened, and if I was already stopped, and had my signal on and was turning, how could it be my fault? Don’t I have a right of way since I’m already at the stop sign? Is a cyclist allowed to pass a car in front of them that is turning right at a stop sign, if the car is already at the stop sign and starting to make a turn? The only possible way he could have been trying to go around me mid-turn was if he hadn’t stopped at the stop sign, and bikers are supposed to stop at stop signs. So I don’t see how any of this could’ve been me “almost running over him”.

Who is in the wrong here?

You were. Just another oblivious driver behind the wheel not paying attention to your surroundings. People like you are the bane of people like me. The exact same scenario has happened to me several times. I’ve almost run into the sides of cars on several occasions because some idiot turns in front of me. Most cyclists don’t do stop signs. We’re not a car so we’re not required to and it takes too much energy to stop at every block and then get back up to speed again. So we’re trying to maintain our cadence and momentum and when you stop and then turn you literally force us to run into you if we don’t take evasive action. You’re lucky he just pounded on your window. I would’ve smashed your car with my lock.

I agree that the OP did a couple of things wrong (not merging all the way to the right, not checking to see if she was clear). But please cite the DC law or regulation that supports your position that since a cyclist isn't a car, she isn't required to stop at a stop sign.

+1 I agree that the driver is responsible for not ensuring that the path was clear to make that right and it’s somewhat hard to believe that a cyclist pulling up to a car stopped at an intersection with a right hand turn signal flashing would attempt to draw parallel. That said, cyclists enjoy the rights of a car on the streets but also bear the same responsibilities.

Yes and no. I have the same right to the road as any car. But I don’t bear the same responsibilities. If cyclists had to stop got every stop sign and wait for every red light then there would be no point in riding a bike. It would take too long to get anywhere on a bike and there would be an added physical burden of having to get moving again from a stop every block or every intersection. The whole appeal of a bike is to be able to zip through traffic past the masses of idiots stuck in cars. If you followed the same practices on a bike as car drivers do you’d basically be reducing the benefit of riding a bike to make it the equivalent of using a really slow car + added fatigue. Who would do that? No one.

You know there is literally 0 obligation on anyone else's part to make your preferred means of transportation worth it to you, right?

That may be the most myopic thing I've ever read on here, and that's saying something.

[Anonymous]

"The only part that makes this thing fun is illegal, so of course it's understood that I can do it anyway."

[Anonymous]

Cyclists are a law onto themselves.

I've seen cars stopped at a red light waiting their turn for the light to turn green so they can cross the intersection and cyclists just cutting through the cars and stopping right in front of the first car in line. Then when the light changes to green the cyclists slows down the cars in crossing the intersection. Shouldn't the cyclists have to get in line just like the cars waiting for the green light?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cyclists are a law onto themselves.

I've seen cars stopped at a red light waiting their turn for the light to turn green so they can cross the intersection and cyclists just cutting through the cars and stopping right in front of the first car in line. Then when the light changes to green the cyclists slows down the cars in crossing the intersection. Shouldn't the cyclists have to get in line just like the cars waiting for the green light?

Instead of complaining, why don’t you get on a bike, too?

One Less Car.

[Anonymous]

This always happens. No matter what the scenario where a driver almost injures a cyclist, drivers always make it about the cyclist, never the driver being reckless, as was clearly the case in the OP, where they obliviously didn’t look behind them for a rider coming up fast from behind. Pathetic. Car culture is a cancer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I always assume cyclists won’t stop because I assume all cyclists are a$$holes. My apologies to the responsible cyclists on this thread. I will work on my bias, but I’m still going to assume you won’t stop just in case…

+1

This thread confirms that all my worst impressions of cyclists are fairly consistent with how they actually think. All the rights and none of the responsibilities. Ugh. You all deserve all the karma coming to you.