What is the real reason MCPS uses Lottery for Middle School Magnet Program

[Anonymous]

It’s really a bummer they can just do leveled classrooms anymore. Then kids stay in their homeschools and get enriched instruction there. Sorting by ability is out though, sadly. It’s a mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Define qualified...if you want to have a program for the top students, there is always a group at the top.

How to measure accurately, though? There's no "best" measure. Some kids test better. Some write better. Some speak better.

Under the old system there were tests, teacher recs, student essays, grades. Pretty broad measures.

No only the really old system had teacher recs which are completely unreliable. Removing that and adding universal screening were huge improvements to the selection process.

[Anonymous]

*can’t

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too many Asian and white kids. Not “enough” black and Latino kids who can match Asian/white kids performance

Exactly:

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/mcps-files-to-dismiss-magnet-admissions-lawsuit/

MCPS didn't like the outcome of the existing process, so they changed it to a lottery to achieve an outcome they wanted.

Really? I read it was because they couldn't administer the CogAT last year since the test owner wouldn't let them do it virtually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Define qualified...if you want to have a program for the top students, there is always a group at the top.

How to measure accurately, though? There's no "best" measure. Some kids test better. Some write better. Some speak better.

Under the old system there were tests, teacher recs, student essays, grades. Pretty broad measures.

No only the really old system had teacher recs which are completely unreliable. Removing that and adding universal screening were huge improvements to the selection process.

+1 The system in place right before covid actually managed to address many of the inequities of the older approach and I will never understand why MCPS moved to a lottery. The old old system had a lot of problems, and then MCPS spent a lot of time and energy to address those inequities only to throw it all out the window and do a lottery. It's such a shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too many Asian and white kids. Not “enough” black and Latino kids who can match Asian/white kids performance

Exactly:

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/mcps-files-to-dismiss-magnet-admissions-lawsuit/

MCPS didn't like the outcome of the existing process, so they changed it to a lottery to achieve an outcome they wanted.

+1 The lottery was to ensure MCPS could weasel out of pending lawsuits. I believe they were caught tampering with the admissions criteria of the 2020 class, which helped motivate moving towards a lottery system. Can't claim its discrimination if it's a completely random selection.[/quote

Do you have any evidence to back this up or is it just the tinfoil hate cutting off circulation to your brain?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don’t want to get sued.

They do not want to get sued for what? Is this a relavent post?

Yes, it is. They want to avoid the legal problems of TJ and Harvard. I recall there also was similar legal action against TPMS the first year they changed the criteria.

I wonder what happened to those lawsuits. But MCPS is going equity over excellence route.

seems like they are choosing excellence but not at the expense of equity which is what many of the tigers want them to do

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This region has astronomically more qualified kids than seats.

I don’t disagree with you BUT if there were enough seats for every single kid labeled as gifted you would have segregated schools. Smart schools and regular schools. That’s not ok. They need to stop pulling the gifted and bright kids out of their neighborhood schools and provide them with advanced work at their home school.

Bingo.

Magnets are away to cover up segregation by bussing White kids to low income schools but segregating them within the school. What a waste.

This might've been true 40-50 years ago but the region has changed so much over the decades but even that is kind of moot now/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too many Asian and white kids. Not “enough” black and Latino kids who can match Asian/white kids performance

Exactly:

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/mcps-files-to-dismiss-magnet-admissions-lawsuit/

MCPS didn't like the outcome of the existing process, so they changed it to a lottery to achieve an outcome they wanted.

+1 The lottery was to ensure MCPS could weasel out of pending lawsuits. I believe they were caught tampering with the admissions criteria of the 2020 class, which helped motivate moving towards a lottery system. Can't claim its discrimination if it's a completely random selection.

Do you have any evidence to back this up or is it just the tinfoil hate cutting off circulation to your brain?

Not the PP, but they are actually right. MCPS moved to dismiss a pending lawsuit specifically because they were moving to a lottery. I don't know whether they "were caught tampering" with the 2020 class, and in fact I think the lawsuit had been in the works longer, but MCPS has absolutely filed legal documents claiming that the move to a lottery obviates the need for a suit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

5 whole pages of posts and 0 new facts ... what a waste

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So if Asians, Whites, Blacks and Latino kids performance is at par, are you saying that MCPS had a racist policy of selecting Asians and Whites kids over Blacks and Latino kids? Can you site any evidence of this?

MCPS is now on its third iteration of magnet admissions in my kids' time in the system and the first iteration (two iterations ago) really was pretty biased. It included a lot of elements that have been demonstrated to have racial or SES bias, including:

1) The MS admissions test was offered on a Saturday at only a select number of schools, so if your parents worked or were otherwise unavailable to drive you, too bad.

2) As might be suggested by #1, the test was not universal. You had to either be referred or opt in. This was a system that dramatically favored people who were "in the know" as well as those with extra time to track school goings on

3) Teacher recommendations are demonstrably problematic. At the ES level, most teachers are white women, and data shows that white women are terrible at identifying gifted kids of color. The things they are looking for (compliance, extroversion) are not present in ALL gifted kids

4) At-home essays were being written/heavily edited by parents, which gave a HUGE advantage to kids whose parents were highly educated native or near-native English speakers

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Which era are you living in? Your point number 1 - To achieve this end, MCPS initiated parent workshops to increase awareness of the programs, expanded student practice sessions for the magnet entrance exams, and provided transportation on test day.

This will be a good read for you. https://casetext.com/case/assn-for-educ-fairness-v-montgomery-cnty-bd-of-educ

It looks more and more like equity over excellence. I wonder what impact will this have on the county. May be lottery for sports and games, BOE, political positions

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too many Asian and white kids. Not “enough” black and Latino kids who can match Asian/white kids performance

Exactly:

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/mcps-files-to-dismiss-magnet-admissions-lawsuit/

MCPS didn't like the outcome of the existing process, so they changed it to a lottery to achieve an outcome they wanted.

Really? I read it was because they couldn't administer the CogAT last year since the test owner wouldn't let them do it virtually.

Admit that CogAT is a better indicator of intelligence than MAP. But why couldn't MCPS have used MAP just for that one year?

The problem with MCPS narratives are they forget what they spun last month, then contradict themselves down the road. That's what happens when you can't keep your stories straight!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too many Asian and white kids. Not “enough” black and Latino kids who can match Asian/white kids performance

Exactly:

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/mcps-files-to-dismiss-magnet-admissions-lawsuit/

MCPS didn't like the outcome of the existing process, so they changed it to a lottery to achieve an outcome they wanted.

+1 The lottery was to ensure MCPS could weasel out of pending lawsuits. I believe they were caught tampering with the admissions criteria of the 2020 class, which helped motivate moving towards a lottery system. Can't claim its discrimination if it's a completely random selection.

Based on the article, it looks like Montgomery county schools are not the place for highly talented anymore. I wonder why enrollments in MCPS schools are down this year. I guess people are going private schools. May be time to move to Virginia and pay our taxes there

Don't let the door hit you on the way out! Oh, and it really wouldn't hurt you to improve your grammar.

MCPS never disclose how they select the students for the lotttery. The criteria is a moving target, depending on your skin color and where you live. MCPD said there is a national rank and there is a adjusted MCPS rank. For. A student who ranked at 90% nationally, he or she could be a 75% students or a 99% student. Some students who ranked at 75% nationally could be in the pool for lottery but others in 97% may not be selected for the pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Define qualified...if you want to have a program for the top students, there is always a group at the top.

This is the fundamental misunderstanding of the CES program. It is not supposed to be for the "top students" in the school system. It was designed to meet the academic needs of students whose needs couldn't be met in their home elementary school. This really doesn't mean the top academic performers, it means students who learn differently, at a faster pace than their peers, and who thrive on independence and complex thinking. As more and more students over the years demonstrated they would benefit from the enriched curriculum, they began offering that curriculum at home schools, rather than shipping an entire class of 4th graders to a different school.

If parents stopped treating the CES as a coveted prize to be won by a select few students, and instead focused on advocating for better enriched curriculum (and GT trained teachers) at their school, everyone would be better off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too many Asian and white kids. Not “enough” black and Latino kids who can match Asian/white kids performance

Exactly:

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/mcps-files-to-dismiss-magnet-admissions-lawsuit/

MCPS didn't like the outcome of the existing process, so they changed it to a lottery to achieve an outcome they wanted.

Really? I read it was because they couldn't administer the CogAT last year since the test owner wouldn't let them do it virtually.

Admit that CogAT is a better indicator of intelligence than MAP. But why couldn't MCPS have used MAP just for that one year?

The problem with MCPS narratives are they forget what they spun last month, then contradict themselves down the road. That's what happens when you can't keep your stories straight!

So why couldn’t they administer COGAT TEST THIS SCHOOL YEAR, it is in person learning after all.