Can we spreadload FRL% across APS? Arlington / Education Newbie here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are coming at this from a white person's perspective. Some of the people who fight the hardest against the 85% FRL schools being broken up are the people who are in those schools. Why? They don't have a problem with the way things are and they enjoy their school community.

Go ask parents at Randolph if they want to be bussed out of their neighborhood and up to Tuckahoe instead. They will slam the door in your face.

Because there is a tipping point for a FARMS rate in a school that when the FARMS rate exceeds it, the education provided to all students declines. And that has been proven over and over. Reducing the FARMS rate is actually an equality issue in education. White people just don't like to hear it.

Assuming that you don't plan on bussing kids across the county, what is the solution?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

They need to think holistically. Bus lines can be added anywhere. We aren’t there yet so your comment is true today, but they need to be thinking beyond existing public transit.

So it's realistic to think that a parent is going to tote multiple children on an ART bus, potentially 20+ minutes away, for a 10 minute parent teacher conference? Would you? No offense to PP, but when we think about these situations from positions of privilege, many important factors get overlooked. There's reasons why having your school in walking distance is a better solution.

I'm so sick of this "positions of privilege" crap. It's the people of privilege who continue to suppress the underprivileged by creating obstacles to better opportunities: concentrate low income housing; segregate schools; housing by most convenient and efficient public transit too expensive for low income to afford to live nearby; etc etc etc

It's people of privilege putting on airs of sympathy and understanding and speaking on behalf of all poor people, putting their presumed needs and conveniences above the things that have been shown by decades of social science research to actually benefit poor people and using poor people as a shield of an excuse to not make changes and to keep things they way they are, the way the privileged like it and want it to stay.

Socioeconomically diverse schools result in higher achievement and longer-term economic growth and success for disadvantaged kids than segregated high poverty schools with all sorts of other additional "resources." Period. Either people care about that or they don't. Period. Arlington doesn't. Period.

Pointing out obstacles <> creating obstacles

Let’s address obstacles. What are some possible solutions for transportation?

Obviously, the solution for transportation is a gondola. Welcome to Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

They need to think holistically. Bus lines can be added anywhere. We aren’t there yet so your comment is true today, but they need to be thinking beyond existing public transit.

So it's realistic to think that a parent is going to tote multiple children on an ART bus, potentially 20+ minutes away, for a 10 minute parent teacher conference? Would you? No offense to PP, but when we think about these situations from positions of privilege, many important factors get overlooked. There's reasons why having your school in walking distance is a better solution.

I'm so sick of this "positions of privilege" crap. It's the people of privilege who continue to suppress the underprivileged by creating obstacles to better opportunities: concentrate low income housing; segregate schools; housing by most convenient and efficient public transit too expensive for low income to afford to live nearby; etc etc etc

It's people of privilege putting on airs of sympathy and understanding and speaking on behalf of all poor people, putting their presumed needs and conveniences above the things that have been shown by decades of social science research to actually benefit poor people and using poor people as a shield of an excuse to not make changes and to keep things they way they are, the way the privileged like it and want it to stay.

Socioeconomically diverse schools result in higher achievement and longer-term economic growth and success for disadvantaged kids than segregated high poverty schools with all sorts of other additional "resources." Period. Either people care about that or they don't. Period. Arlington doesn't. Period.

OP, are you actually guerilla marketing for a sequel to this Podcast series? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html

Go to the Green Valley civic association and tell them you want to bus their neighborhood children to a more diverse school. Report back how it goes.

[Anonymous]

Last year, "nice white parents" fought for kids to go back to school because "poor families" needed to work in person, didn't have support systems for childcare, etc. But when APS actually asked those families what they wanted, the overwhelming majority chose virtual. Stop acting like you know what families at schools with high rates of FRL want. I guarantee they don't want their kids bused to Yorktown!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

They need to think holistically. Bus lines can be added anywhere. We aren’t there yet so your comment is true today, but they need to be thinking beyond existing public transit.

So it's realistic to think that a parent is going to tote multiple children on an ART bus, potentially 20+ minutes away, for a 10 minute parent teacher conference? Would you? No offense to PP, but when we think about these situations from positions of privilege, many important factors get overlooked. There's reasons why having your school in walking distance is a better solution.

I'm so sick of this "positions of privilege" crap. It's the people of privilege who continue to suppress the underprivileged by creating obstacles to better opportunities: concentrate low income housing; segregate schools; housing by most convenient and efficient public transit too expensive for low income to afford to live nearby; etc etc etc

It's people of privilege putting on airs of sympathy and understanding and speaking on behalf of all poor people, putting their presumed needs and conveniences above the things that have been shown by decades of social science research to actually benefit poor people and using poor people as a shield of an excuse to not make changes and to keep things they way they are, the way the privileged like it and want it to stay.

Socioeconomically diverse schools result in higher achievement and longer-term economic growth and success for disadvantaged kids than segregated high poverty schools with all sorts of other additional "resources." Period. Either people care about that or they don't. Period. Arlington doesn't. Period.

Pointing out obstacles <> creating obstacles

Let’s address obstacles. What are some possible solutions for transportation?

Obviously, the solution for transportation is a gondola. Welcome to Arlington.

Not the street car? Ouch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last year, "nice white parents" fought for kids to go back to school because "poor families" needed to work in person, didn't have support systems for childcare, etc. But when APS actually asked those families what they wanted, the overwhelming majority chose virtual. Stop acting like you know what families at schools with high rates of FRL want. I guarantee they don't want their kids bused to Yorktown!

What are you talking about? No families were surveyed about their options for MONTHS. Lots of families, including those on FRL, chose virtual early on in the school year. Then were not asked again until close to spring time when APS seemed shocked at how many families wanted in-person. And from meetings it sounded like some were opposed to expanding in-person from 2 to 4 days in part due to transportation issues and reduced hours that made it incompatible with their work schedules. So instead of coming up with solutions, APS declared it more equitable not to offer any more in person hours to anybody. Yet somehow neighboring Fairfax Co., which also has FRL students magically didn’t have this problem in reopening 4 days.

I agree, most people at all ends of the SES spectrum don’t want their kids bussed far away. But your first assertion is crap built on APS’s lack of effort in even bothering to obtain data about what families wanted last school year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year, "nice white parents" fought for kids to go back to school because "poor families" needed to work in person, didn't have support systems for childcare, etc. But when APS actually asked those families what they wanted, the overwhelming majority chose virtual. Stop acting like you know what families at schools with high rates of FRL want. I guarantee they don't want their kids bused to Yorktown!

What are you talking about? No families were surveyed about their options for MONTHS. Lots of families, including those on FRL, chose virtual early on in the school year. Then were not asked again until close to spring time when APS seemed shocked at how many families wanted in-person. And from meetings it sounded like some were opposed to expanding in-person from 2 to 4 days in part due to transportation issues and reduced hours that made it incompatible with their work schedules. So instead of coming up with solutions, APS declared it more equitable not to offer any more in person hours to anybody. Yet somehow neighboring Fairfax Co., which also has FRL students magically didn’t have this problem in reopening 4 days.

I agree, most people at all ends of the SES spectrum don’t want their kids bussed far away. But your first assertion is crap built on APS’s lack of effort in even bothering to obtain data about what families wanted last school year.

We were asked to select again in December as they were hashing out RTS plans. At that time, a higher % of FRL and ELL families chose virtual.

And THEN instead of adding days to hybrid, Duran offered hybrid to MORE kids. So giving families another chance to select hybrid. He tried to get as many kids in the building as possible.

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/BWDM2N592534/$file/D-1%20School%20Year%202020-21%20Update%20121720.pdf
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/BZVQVX6AF76C/$file/D-1%20School%20Year%20Update%202020-21%20Presentation%204-8-2021.pdf

[Anonymous]

Look at how many Nauck Green valley families chose Hoffman Boston or Montessori for their kids. FRL don’t all want to stay at their high poverty over 60-80% FRL school. Offer busing to any kid in Randolph or Carlin Springs willing to go to Nottingham or Tuckahoe, Hamm or Williamsburg, Yorktown. Bet you’d find some takers. Bet MONA and NNA would freak out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at how many Nauck Green valley families chose Hoffman Boston or Montessori for their kids. FRL don’t all want to stay at their high poverty over 60-80% FRL school. Offer busing to any kid in Randolph or Carlin Springs willing to go to Nottingham or Tuckahoe, Hamm or Williamsburg, Yorktown. Bet you’d find some takers. Bet MONA and NNA would freak out.

Would you only offer the bussing to kids on FRL? Because otherwise you're going to get a disproportionate number of non-FRL families taking up that offer. It would just be another option school escape valve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at how many Nauck Green valley families chose Hoffman Boston or Montessori for their kids. FRL don’t all want to stay at their high poverty over 60-80% FRL school. Offer busing to any kid in Randolph or Carlin Springs willing to go to Nottingham or Tuckahoe, Hamm or Williamsburg, Yorktown. Bet you’d find some takers. Bet MONA and NNA would freak out.

Would you only offer the bussing to kids on FRL? Because otherwise you're going to get a disproportionate number of non-FRL families taking up that offer. It would just be another option school escape valve.

Serious question: if we know schools above a certain FARMS rate are bad for everyone, why shouldn’t any student get a chance to leave? If Arlington can’t or won’t address the issue, why should anyone have to stay? Or, is the reference to the FARMS study incorrect? Educate me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at how many Nauck Green valley families chose Hoffman Boston or Montessori for their kids. FRL don’t all want to stay at their high poverty over 60-80% FRL school. Offer busing to any kid in Randolph or Carlin Springs willing to go to Nottingham or Tuckahoe, Hamm or Williamsburg, Yorktown. Bet you’d find some takers. Bet MONA and NNA would freak out.

Considering how many MONA families opt for the option schools, which have much higher FARM rates than NA schools they won't freak out, unless you again overcrowd schools to the point they take playground recess in shifts or such.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at how many Nauck Green valley families chose Hoffman Boston or Montessori for their kids. FRL don’t all want to stay at their high poverty over 60-80% FRL school. Offer busing to any kid in Randolph or Carlin Springs willing to go to Nottingham or Tuckahoe, Hamm or Williamsburg, Yorktown. Bet you’d find some takers. Bet MONA and NNA would freak out.

Would you only offer the bussing to kids on FRL? Because otherwise you're going to get a disproportionate number of non-FRL families taking up that offer. It would just be another option school escape valve.

Serious question: if we know schools above a certain FARMS rate are bad for everyone, why shouldn’t any student get a chance to leave? If Arlington can’t or won’t address the issue, why should anyone have to stay? Or, is the reference to the FARMS study incorrect? Educate me.

Leaving is fine, its attending a school they aren't zoned for which is the problem. They can home school, go private, move their residence. You are basically saying, let's make Arlington a lottery school, which is part of why San Francisco is so utterly awful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at how many Nauck Green valley families chose Hoffman Boston or Montessori for their kids. FRL don’t all want to stay at their high poverty over 60-80% FRL school. Offer busing to any kid in Randolph or Carlin Springs willing to go to Nottingham or Tuckahoe, Hamm or Williamsburg, Yorktown. Bet you’d find some takers. Bet MONA and NNA would freak out.

Would you only offer the bussing to kids on FRL? Because otherwise you're going to get a disproportionate number of non-FRL families taking up that offer. It would just be another option school escape valve.

Serious question: if we know schools above a certain FARMS rate are bad for everyone, why shouldn’t any student get a chance to leave? If Arlington can’t or won’t address the issue, why should anyone have to stay? Or, is the reference to the FARMS study incorrect? Educate me.

I’m fine with it. APS can’t give any indication that “All Arlington schools are good” might not be the whole story, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it takes a long time to get from Drew/Randolph/Carlin Springs to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor, especially during rush hour. There is no appetite from parents on either end of the spectrum to mix it up, even without looking at the difficulty of planning and staffing bus routes. There's no opportunity to just shift the edges at the schools in the middle because those are already well balanced.

+1 Randolph is also a true neighborhood school. There is no bus loop and the location makes it pretty much impossible to add one. Lots of poverty is concentrated there but also strong community that probably wouldn’t want to be broken up.

And how would families/guardians without transportation get to Discovery/WMS/Yorktown where there is no good public transportation nearby. You essentially cut them out of any involvement in their kids schools.

Schools are relying more and more on virtual meetings and interactions for parents - parent teacher conferences, virtual; back to school night - virtual; information nights - virtual. School is fully open and there is no longer reason for these events to be virtual-only. Obviously, they think this is sufficient and therefore can continue offering virtual options for parents who don't want/can't drive to the school for everything.

But how about thinking outside the box a bit for a change? If we do "A" then "B" is a problem so instead of immediately deciding not to do "A" how about thinking of potential solutions for "B"? APS has run shuttles to WHS for back to school night. PTAs could facilitate carpooling efforts, APS can arrange shuttle services, schools could arrange for conferences in alternative locations, etc. And yes, that increases transportation costs blah blah blah. Tired of the excuses that are merely shields for admitting lack of desire for any change.

I mean, that's the thing, right? There is very little desire for any change, so why bother? What is your specific school situation that you don't like?

My specific school situation is fine. I don't like the county's school situation of extreme segregation and inequality. And I don't like the hypocrisy of Arlington Democrats or the north/south divide. It's all ridiculous and unnecessary. We are not Chicago or LA. It is very feasible to have an inclusive, integrated community here in Arlington VA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at how many Nauck Green valley families chose Hoffman Boston or Montessori for their kids. FRL don’t all want to stay at their high poverty over 60-80% FRL school. Offer busing to any kid in Randolph or Carlin Springs willing to go to Nottingham or Tuckahoe, Hamm or Williamsburg, Yorktown. Bet you’d find some takers. Bet MONA and NNA would freak out.

Would you only offer the bussing to kids on FRL? Because otherwise you're going to get a disproportionate number of non-FRL families taking up that offer. It would just be another option school escape valve.

Serious question: if we know schools above a certain FARMS rate are bad for everyone, why shouldn’t any student get a chance to leave? If Arlington can’t or won’t address the issue, why should anyone have to stay? Or, is the reference to the FARMS study incorrect? Educate me.

I’m fine with it. APS can’t give any indication that “All Arlington schools are good” might not be the whole story, though.

All schools are good is not the same as all schools are equal, or comparable. The experiences and opportunities, pace of learning, and social experiences are vastly different, The priorities of schools (ie their challenges and primary focus) are different; and that changes instruction and the learning environment.